Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
@"NFL Draft Guru" do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)?
Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO.
I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class.
If the Vikings can somehow pull off a trade down involving Waynes, who I'd bet dollars to donuts is still very much in play, I'd love to see them grab an OL starter and Simmons. One idea I like is trading Waynes and #18 to the Raiders for #27 and #35. Maybe a little wishful thinking, but the combos they could draft are pretty enticing: Bradbury and Simmons, Risner and McGary, Ford and Simmons....
Giving up to much there IMO. Waynes by himself could be as high as a 2nd rounder to the right team if they miss in the 1st on their guy. The 18th pick and a solid starter should be worth more imo.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
@"NFL Draft Guru" do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)?
Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO.
I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class.
If the Vikings can somehow pull off a trade down involving Waynes, who I'd bet dollars to donuts is still very much in play, I'd love to see them grab an OL starter and Simmons. One idea I like is trading Waynes and #18 to the Raiders for #27 and #35. Maybe a little wishful thinking, but the combos they could draft are pretty enticing: Bradbury and Simmons, Risner and McGary, Ford and Simmons....
Giving up to much there IMO. Waynes by himself could be as high as a 2nd rounder to the right team if they miss in the 1st on their guy. The 18th pick and a solid starter should be worth more imo.
If you do the math on the trade value chart, it comes out to Waynes for a low 2nd rounder.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
@"NFL Draft Guru" do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)?
Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO.
I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class.
If the Vikings can somehow pull off a trade down involving Waynes, who I'd bet dollars to donuts is still very much in play, I'd love to see them grab an OL starter and Simmons. One idea I like is trading Waynes and #18 to the Raiders for #27 and #35. Maybe a little wishful thinking, but the combos they could draft are pretty enticing: Bradbury and Simmons, Risner and McGary, Ford and Simmons....
Giving up to much there IMO. Waynes by himself could be as high as a 2nd rounder to the right team if they miss in the 1st on their guy. The 18th pick and a solid starter should be worth more imo.
If you do the math on the trade value chart, it comes out to Waynes for a low 2nd rounder.
so I guess it is.....
![[Image: 18sab8.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/18sab8.jpg)
Quote: @"Amazonviking" said:
As for Banogu, Acuna from last year is exactly the type of DE Zimmer loves and makes the Banogu pick unneeded and too short to fit the Zimmer proto-type. I like the Nelson kid form Iowa as a better fit in Zimmer's Scheme than Banogu who I see as more of a 3-4 LB than a long lanky athletic DE and Nelson could really project to the LDE spot. I really don't see a Zimmer proto-type DE outside of Sweat and Burns and I don't see us moving up to take either of them, but if Burns slides to 18 we should run to the podium with his name.
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Amazon, it's interesting that you're looking for Zimmer to acquire a LDE in the mold of Michael Johnson, because I used to expect that as well. But I'm not so sure he is still after the 6-6+ guys, because he has passed on them a couple of times, and seems to have completely subscribed to the Viking "tradition" (in place at least since the Frazier era) of only using DEs that have more speed than bulk. When was the last time we had a strongside DE who could slug it out with a RT and seal the edge? If they want to go that route, I think they would try Jalyn Holmes (6-5, 283) there.
Quote: @"Tyr" said:
I've looked into Brian Burns today and he's an interesting prospect. Very athletic, great bend, has an array of pass rushing moves, & uses his hands well. On the negative side he's bulked up to 249, but seems to have trouble keeping on weight. His strength isn't where you want it yet and I can see him having trouble in the running game, even if he can blow up some plays in the backfield with athleticism. Teams are looking at him both as a DE and a 3-4 LB and he's got the athleticism to play in space. He'd be an interesting guy to have standing over the center in a double A gap blitz or use in zone blitz looks. The question with him is how confident the strength and condition staff are that they can get him to add weight & strength. He compares his game to Jason Taylor and while Taylor did it, it's hard to be a successful end in the 240s.
Burns is kind of like Fant, both have some really impressive traits, look awesome in highlight reels, but are lacking in key areas. Fant with blocking, consistency, & strength and Burns with weight, strength, & run defense. Both are boom or bust picks. Both could also be in line to replace expensive vets in 2020, which could be attractive to the front office.
Burns seems like a guy we would be drafting if Barr had left. But not only did we keep Barr, we kept Griffen, and not inexpensively, so why a DE? There is a pipeline of pass rush prospects on this squad in Weatherly, Aruna, Odenigbo. One of them will have to go if Griffen is assured a roster spot, and two if we draft another DE. Was Barr promised more rushing snaps to return?
Does it ever seem like we should play a bit of 3-4? Hunter and Barr at rush OLB spots really intrigues me, Kendricks and Wilson at ILB and Linvalle at NT would be fine...I guess we don't have anyone who can play as big 3-4 DEs.
Quote: @"Jor-El" said:
@"Tyr" said:
I've looked into Brian Burns today and he's an interesting prospect. Very athletic, great bend, has an array of pass rushing moves, & uses his hands well. On the negative side he's bulked up to 249, but seems to have trouble keeping on weight. His strength isn't where you want it yet and I can see him having trouble in the running game, even if he can blow up some plays in the backfield with athleticism. Teams are looking at him both as a DE and a 3-4 LB and he's got the athleticism to play in space. He'd be an interesting guy to have standing over the center in a double A gap blitz or use in zone blitz looks. The question with him is how confident the strength and condition staff are that they can get him to add weight & strength. He compares his game to Jason Taylor and while Taylor did it, it's hard to be a successful end in the 240s.
Burns is kind of like Fant, both have some really impressive traits, look awesome in highlight reels, but are lacking in key areas. Fant with blocking, consistency, & strength and Burns with weight, strength, & run defense. Both are boom or bust picks. Both could also be in line to replace expensive vets in 2020, which could be attractive to the front office.
Burns seems like a guy we would be drafting if Barr had left. But not only did we keep Barr, we kept Griffen, and not inexpensively, so why a DE? There is a pipeline of pass rush prospects on this squad in Weatherly, Aruna, Odenigbo. One of them will have to go if Griffen is assured a roster spot, and two if we draft another DE. Was Barr promised more rushing snaps to return?
Does it ever seem like we should play a bit of 3-4? Hunter and Barr at rush OLB spots really intrigues me, Kendricks and Wilson at ILB and Linvalle at NT would be fine...I guess we don't have anyone who can play as big 3-4 DEs.
In this case, we were looking at scenarios where the top OL were not available, so we are forced to look at other positions. I agree that if Barr had left, then the case for Burns is much stronger. As for the pipeline of pass rusher prospects, Weatherly has proven himself to be a very solid player, who can start if needed. After him, we have prospects like Arunda, Odenigbo, Mata'afa, & Schult (AAF player) who all have potential, but it's not a given that they can become Weatherly or better. There are definitely pieces to work with and you can also throw in Jalyn Holmes who could move back to DE depending on the draft. There's also the issue that the Vikings that the Vikings are in a tough spot with the salary cap, so drafting players who could replace expensive veterans is something they need to consider. I doubt that Zimmer would ever do run many 3-4 looks, they could mix it in as part of the nickel package, but likely not a big part of their scheme.
So with all of that said, if the draft pans out in a weird way and the Vikings are forced to look at other positions, then I view Burns as a talented pass rusher, who seems to fit the Vikings profile (even if he's a little light right now), and could be used in a variety of ways. He could also provide cap savings in 2020 if they elect to move on from Griffen, which is not a given. I wouldn't take him over the top OTs and Hockenson, but if those guys are gone, then he becomes part of the conversation because he could very well be BPA.
Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman.
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman.
I think Spielman is probably in big trouble if the Vikings don't make the playoffs regardless. Zimmer would fall into that same boat but to a smaller degree.
O-line will be the top priority but I do think they likely have a few contingent plans. If they don't go line in the 1st maybe they take players back to back in the 2nd/3rd. Alternatively if they take a guy in the 1st maybe they don't tough it again until the 4th. Just a way to hedge getting at least a single starter.
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
Fant is an interesting talent and athlete, but I can't imagine the scrutiny Spielman would be under for ignoring the offensive line once again after last season. If Cousins gets killed again and we miss the playoffs I could see Spielman getting canned. Going with anything but an offensive lineman with our first pick would be a ballsy, ballsy move by Spielman.
Lets say he goes Oline and misses on the 1st round pick only to have a stud DT who was rated much higher get taken right after we draft the 4th rated linemen? We end up missing the playoffs because our DT's suck and teams run up the gut on us and keep Cousin's off the field.
I think you have to balance need and BPA. I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that 4th rated linemen is going to comp much lower that the 4th rated DT.
The best teams, trust their boards in the draft and use free agency to fill need.
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