Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Ha! Strategically, you are probably right. But never going to happen because Spielman convinced the Wilfs to invest $84M in Cousins. Why would he do anything to suggest that it wasn't a fantastic decision that will result in a Lombardi Trophy or two and no more worries about that pesky QB position?
That's why it should be a 4th rounder. A player who will never be confused as competition for Cousins, but someone who can compete with Sloter as our #2.
I dont think we need to go a first rounder, but if we are taking a player.... lets take a player, sure some QBs can be found in the later rounds, but if we are talking about a guy that could be ready to take over for KC in 2 years if his contract demands are rediculous.. well then lets take a QB, spending a mid round draft pick with the goal of not being good enought to challenge for the starting job seems wrong to me. if the right guy is there in the 2nd or 3rd.. well nab him up and make capn kirk beat him. of course I think we have more pressing needs than a back up QB, I think Sloter should be the #2 already based on what we have seen, but if he isnt... then they better be ready to get a guy that will be that and more with time.
In my opinion, there are two kinds of QBs in the draft. Those who are top 10 picks (potential franchise QBs), and everyone else. So little difference between QBs taken outside of the top 10 and those you can get late, or even after the draft.
I think you need to add a few more categories.
IMO there are those that come in pretty much ready to play, they could benefit from a little seasoning on the bench but they can play right away.
there are those that have to have some prep work but will eventually put it together and have nice careers...maybe even great careers... hell look at brady.
there are those that even with seasoning their ceiling is journeyman clip board holder, game manager at best
and those that are brought in simply to take some snaps/reps in camp. never a real shot at developing or making a practice squad let alone a roster.
oh yeah.... and theres the Joe Webb experiments.. not sure where to rank those guys.
I think there are other categories for other positions, but not so much QBs. You have the franchise guys, taken at the top because they're recognized as such (even though only about half turn out). And everyone else. And there's such little difference between guys taken late in round 1 and guys taken on day three. I think if you look at draft history ( http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb) the hit rate on QBs outside of the top 10 is pretty low. And it doesn't improve a lot as you get higher in the draft.
If you look at every starting QB in the NFL, they were either taken high as a franchise guy, or someone got lucky. Brady (6th), Cousins (4th), Keenun (UDFA), Prescott (4th), Russel (3rd). Of the top of my head, I can think of no day-two "developmental" guy who ever turned out. Of course every year is different, and there are exceptions, but not enough for the Vikings to justify taking one high when they have big OL needs and an $84M QB who might actually prove his worth with a few of those OLs.
I think its all about getting lucky, even in the first round. there is no magic formula as to who is going to succeed and whos going to bust, especially at the QB position IMO.
What we need in this draft in first 3 picks is olinemen.....but sadly I think Rick and Zimmer will go defense again........
If I know anything about Spielman he'll draft a CB, LB and QB before any OL. Seriously though, I wouldn't mind seeing them go QB in round 3 or 4 if the right guy is there, who that is I have no clue.
Quote: @JoDakota said:
What we need in this draft in first 3 picks is olinemen.....but sadly I think Rick and Zimmer will go defense again........
Before the 2017 season, the Vikings replaced 4 OL (LT, LG, C and RT). They have now replaced 3 more kind of (moving Remmers to RG, new LG and RT). Next year you want them to replace 3 more with the first 3 picks?
I have a small request, since everything is the OL's fault, can we at least point out which player it is and use his name instead of the generic OL?
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Justin Herbert from Oregon is an interesting prospect, if he declares. Big, big arm and good size. Raw. Needs to sit a few years, not nearly as polished as Mariota was coming out. But that also means due to his mediocre season he's not going Top 5 in the draft, so that works in our favor.
I guarantee you he goes Top.10 at the worst. Probably Top 5.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ JoDakota said:
What we need in this draft in first 3 picks is olinemen.....but sadly I think Rick and Zimmer will go defense again........
Before the 2017 season, the Vikings replaced 4 OL (LT, LG, C and RT). They have now replaced 3 more kind of (moving Remmers to RG, new LG and RT). Next year you want them to replace 3 more with the first 3 picks?
I have a small request, since everything is the OL's fault, can we at least point out which player it is and use his name instead of the generic OL?
Its pretty obvious to anyone watching that Remmers and Compton need to go bye bye. Compton is barely a serviceable back up.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
Justin Herbert from Oregon is an interesting prospect, if he declares. Big, big arm and good size. Raw. Needs to sit a few years, not nearly as polished as Mariota was coming out. But that also means due to his mediocre season he's not going Top 5 in the draft, so that works in our favor.
I guarantee you he goes Top.10 at the worst. Probably Top 5.
Yep. He's going to be the top QB taken.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ JoDakota said:
What we need in this draft in first 3 picks is olinemen.....but sadly I think Rick and Zimmer will go defense again........
Before the 2017 season, the Vikings replaced 4 OL (LT, LG, C and RT). They have now replaced 3 more kind of (moving Remmers to RG, new LG and RT). Next year you want them to replace 3 more with the first 3 picks?
I have a small request, since everything is the OL's fault, can we at least point out which player it is and use his name instead of the generic OL?
Position wise it doesn't really matter, we need better starting Guards, but I think more depth at OT and C would be beneficial as well. Imo we need to be looking at FA fo at least one starting OG so honestly all positions are open for selection it he draft. I look at OL as 9 to 10 spots and right now we have 3 or 4 of them filled.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ JoDakota said:
What we need in this draft in first 3 picks is olinemen.....but sadly I think Rick and Zimmer will go defense again........
Before the 2017 season, the Vikings replaced 4 OL (LT, LG, C and RT). They have now replaced 3 more kind of (moving Remmers to RG, new LG and RT). Next year you want them to replace 3 more with the first 3 picks?
I have a small request, since everything is the OL's fault, can we at least point out which player it is and use his name instead of the generic OL?
Position wise it doesn't really matter, we need better starting Guards, but I think more depth at OT and C would be beneficial as well. Imo we need to be looking at FA fo at least one starting OG so honestly all positions are open for selection it he draft. I look at OL as 9 to 10 spots and right now we have 3 or 4 of them filled.
Agree. Names? OK - I think Reiff, O'Neill, and Elflein are the 3 solid players. Then:
Tom Compton: Waive-able, though I think he may be re-signed to compete for a backup spot.
Mike Remmers: Below average and I think will be waived to save his salary (unless the Vikings restructure his contract to keep him as a backup at RG/RT).
Rashod Hill: I would hope we can upgrade but not sure we have a better swing backup tackle. Maybe Collins, otherwise draft pick.
Nick Easton: Could replace Compton - IF, IF, IF he is recovered. My fear is that Vikings will assume he will come back at 100% immediately, but OL often recover slowly or not at all. A couple years ago we counted on Sullivan, Fusco, and Loadholt to recover and be ready at the start of the season.
Aviante Collins: See Easton re injury recovery concerns.
Danny Isidora: I had high hopes but he can't seem to displace Compton or Remmers, so.....
Brett Jones: Same as Isidora - couldn't displace Compton.
By my count, that's 7 guys who are more suspect than prospect.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ JoDakota said:
What we need in this draft in first 3 picks is olinemen.....but sadly I think Rick and Zimmer will go defense again........
Before the 2017 season, the Vikings replaced 4 OL (LT, LG, C and RT). They have now replaced 3 more kind of (moving Remmers to RG, new LG and RT). Next year you want them to replace 3 more with the first 3 picks?
I have a small request, since everything is the OL's fault, can we at least point out which player it is and use his name instead of the generic OL?
Position wise it doesn't really matter, we need better starting Guards, but I think more depth at OT and C would be beneficial as well. Imo we need to be looking at FA fo at least one starting OG so honestly all positions are open for selection it he draft. I look at OL as 9 to 10 spots and right now we have 3 or 4 of them filled.
Agree. Names? OK - I think Reiff, O'Neill, and Elflein are the 3 solid players. Then:
Tom Compton: Waive-able, though I think he may be re-signed to compete for a backup spot.
Mike Remmers: Below average and I think will be waived to save his salary (unless the Vikings restructure his contract to keep him as a backup at RG/RT).
Rashod Hill: I would hope we can upgrade but not sure we have a better swing backup tackle. Maybe Collins, otherwise draft pick.
Nick Easton: Could replace Compton - IF, IF, IF he is recovered. My fear is that Vikings will assume he will come back at 100% immediately, but OL often recover slowly or not at all. A couple years ago we counted on Sullivan, Fusco, and Loadholt to recover and be ready at the start of the season.
Aviante Collins: See Easton re injury recovery concerns.
Danny Isidora: I had high hopes but he can't seem to displace Compton or Remmers, so.....
Brett Jones: Same as Isidora - couldn't displace Compton.
By my count, that's 7 guys who are more suspect than prospect.
Reiff, Elf, and Oneill are safe, Collins is a likely safe. after that Hill is a maybe and the rest are likely gone, like you said, if Isi and Jones cant see the field with remmers and compton playing as poorly as they are... I am not very confident in that improving next year. Easton is a free agent so he may be gone anyway, besides IMO he cant be counted on for much coming back from an entire year out of the game and away from real training. I dont want to see a guy that is to weak at an OG spot....maybe as a back up center.
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