Quote: @Jor-El said:
Cousins has shown fine running ability and escapes from pressure often. He isn't a running QB, but Keenum is hardly Michael Vick either. We don't need to combine Cousins with any aspect of Keenum's game; Kirk is already something special.
How special is he? Are you thinking he's an elite MVP type of QB that can be compared to Brady, Manning, Favre, Brees and Rodgers? This is Kirk's 7th season in the NFL, and he's played in 2 playoff games (started one of them). Washington lost both of those home games.
Believe me, I want to love the guy, but I don't see him carrying this offense on his back to the playoffs. If the Vikings can get good on defense again, find a running game, and basically have things clicking like Case had last season, then I think Kirk will have a fantastic year.
Kirk might turn into something special, but until he's a proven winner; especially in the post season, he's a notch or two below that "elite QB" ranking.
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to.
Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.
So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Why did you only quote part of me? I did say I'm happy with the Kirk decision. I was only pointing out there's no magic this year. Case for all his flaws was a big part of that magic. I know it was not going to work long term. Nothing is working this year but Kirk. It's not fun. I'm just thinking of happier days not so long ago.
You bring up a good point about magic. Last year was on another level. And of course the end outcome sucked. But it was exciting. It certainly was electric to see in person.
This year has some excitement on offense but the defense is putrid. They are going through growing pains. I don't care what anyone says losing BRob and Everson is huge. And especially since there is a great deal of uncertainty about Everson. But they are trying to find their identity and cohesiveness as a unit. So that counteracts the excitement on offense. I really hope they can come together and work through the roller coaster ride.
Maybe a matter of semantics, but this defense is not going through growing pains. This defense should be in the middle of their prime, and has simply not performed, and or the scheme has been figured out to the extent where they need to start looking at some personnel, coaching, or schematic changes.
DB's have been playing like they're disinterested. We seem to be playing with 1 LBer, and half a defensive line most of the game. Not sure what's going on, but it's not inexperience or lack of familiarity. My fear is that a few of the "stars" on this defense are mentally and or physically taking a year or more off.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ Vikergirl said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to.
Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.
So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Why did you only quote part of me? I did say I'm happy with the Kirk decision. I was only pointing out there's no magic this year. Case for all his flaws was a big part of that magic. I know it was not going to work long term. Nothing is working this year but Kirk. It's not fun. I'm just thinking of happier days not so long ago.
You bring up a good point about magic. Last year was on another level. And of course the end outcome sucked. But it was exciting. It certainly was electric to see in person.
This year has some excitement on offense but the defense is putrid. They are going through growing pains. I don't care what anyone says losing BRob and Everson is huge. And especially since there is a great deal of uncertainty about Everson. But they are trying to find their identity and cohesiveness as a unit. So that counteracts the excitement on offense. I really hope they can come together and work through the roller coaster ride.
Maybe a matter of semantics, but this defense is not going through growing pains. This defense should be in the middle of their prime, and has simply not performed, and or the scheme has been figured out to the extent where they need to start looking at some personnel, coaching, or schematic changes.
DB's have been playing like they're disinterested. We seem to be playing with 1 LBer, and half a defensive line most of the game. Not sure what's going on, but it's not inexperience or lack of familiarity. My fear is that a few of the "stars" on this defense are mentally and or physically taking a year or more off.
Those issues are definitely at play. But growing pains are as well. And when I am talking about growing pains there is some youth but there are leadership issues as well as a need to adjust to changes. Especially in regard to Everson, that's a big unknown. Also there is a lack of unity in regard to the team defense. That is impacting performance. It's not just the young that go through growing pains. There are a whole lot of issues going on right now with the defense. It's everywhere. Players, coaches, schemes, youth, veterans. Take your pick. I would also add that this defense has a lack of identity. Their purpose is still evolving and they need to adapt to the rule changes.
So.... 13-2-1 here we come?
Some how a huge upgrade at QB only gets us 4 more points so far this season than last season. And one less Win. Kirk is still settling into his role here and I'm not sure what we got. A Stat machine like Stafford? The lions are always in the top 5 or 10 for passing in the NFL. But yet seldom in the playoffs... Awesome for you fantasy types. Or do we have a QB that will lead this team into to playoffs and beyond. Remains to be seen.
All off season and preseason I heard that Kirk's never had a D like ours... well 4 games into the season, I think you can safely say that yes he has... unfortunately, yes he has. Now still a lot of football left to be played in this season and maybe our D will return to it's last season form. And the only gripe that I have about Cousins is his propensity to fumble and some of his passes put his receivers in harms way... But I think that second one will work itself out as he gets more time with these guys.
13-2-1 or bust... Right? =)
Quote:@StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to.
Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.
So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Lets look at it another way.
Last years D under Zimm was not sustainable.
The Vikings brass knew it during the playoffs.
Since 2nd half of Saints game Zim has been out coached badly.
The D had a horse shoe up it's ass during the regular season.
The prudent move should have been to wish Zim well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what should have happened. Shame on the Vikings for not doing so.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Love 2017 Case, but he truly caught lightning in a bottle, played with the #1 defense. Never had to really go to to toe in any shootouts and put up big points. Nice guy, but Cousins is a clear upgrade.
It's only 4 games into the season.
Last year at this point MN scored 19.75 points per game.
This year 22.5 points per game.
That extra field goal per game is not that clear yet.
At the very least I am excited going forward to see what Kirk will do when he has an actual NFL line in front of him and the ability to play action. A heavy draft on offense as well (2019)
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ silverjoel said:
The Broncos offense has more points scored (84 against teams with a combined 10-6 record) than the Vikings offense (83 against teams with a combined 8-7-1 record).
The 2017 Vikings offense scored 79 through the first 4 games.
Cousins has 10 TD passes. Keenum has 3....and hasn't thrown a TD in his last 3 games. I forgot that passing TDs are worth more than rushing TDs. Somehow, an 80 yard drive with 40 yards passing and 40 yards rushing is only good if it ends in a passing TD.
Cousins has a QB rating of 103.6, Keenum's is 72.1.
To anyone not pushing some kind of agenda, its painfully obvious who is playing better thus far. Only on a message board is this not abundantly clear. Not even sure how this can be a debate. Denver's offense has scored more points. How is that an agenda? It's a team game, isn't that what's always said if someone wants to discredit a particular player? Now you get your QB stats, so let's discredit the team.
Yeah, I get it. This Vikings team is letting Bradford Cousins down. What more is Bradford Cousins supposed to do? I already had this conversation with you two years ago.. Best Vikings QB since Favre. You wanted QB stats, you got them. You never looked at what throwing 50 times a game did to the rest of the team and the affect it had on actually winning games.
Unfortunately the Vikings have needed to throw the ball 50 times a game. It’s not like it’s Cousins idea or something but the defense is a sieve and the running game is non-existent. Keenum did pretty well last year all things considered, but he would be struggling massively with this Vikings team this season.
Quote: @holmanjp said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ suncoastvike said:
I loved Case and the passion and joy he brought to the team. They were a bunch of kids having fun on the playground. If Zimmer was so right about anything it sure wasn't how to stop teams from scoring on him. He's been plenty wrong to.
Yeah, he has been wrong but this is different: the team went 13-3 and Keenum played very well. They went to the NFCC game. Yet when it came time to sign him up, the team passed. That got a lot of outside scrutiny and they faded heat for it as an organization. Some pundits railed against it, etc. Yet they held firm after giving it a ton of review, I'm sure. And they were absolutely correct.
So if you want to be mad at Zimmer because the D has shit the bed so far, that's cool. But last year under Keenum was not sustainable, it wouldn't have been replicated and Zimmer and Viking's brass knew it. It was a bold move regardless. Some fans in this forum were pissed and being fans, they got attached to Keenum and the Cinderella story. The prudent move was to wish him well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what happened. Full credit to the Vikings for doing so.
Lets look at it another way.
Last years D under Zimm was not sustainable.
The Vikings brass knew it during the playoffs.
Since 2nd half of Saints game Zim has been out coached badly.
The D had a horse shoe up it's ass during the regular season.
The prudent move should have been to wish Zim well and let him go elsewhere and that's exactly what should have happened. Shame on the Vikings for not doing so.
Oh boy. (eye roll).
I live with a hardcore 'skins fan... I've thus surreptitiously watched Cousins for years. Last year sure, we turned chicken sh*t into chicken salad but that was a one-off and guaranteed a solid dude like Case got a payday to carry him into retirement. Cousins has overproduced behind an abysmal situation for 3+ years now as a starter. He's made throws I haven't seen since the Warren Moon days on this team. (Not dissing Daunte but he was not a finesse QB... launch it for Moss was his MO).
If, and it's a big iiiiiiiiiiiffffffffff.... the O-Line gels and the Defense finds an identity you're gonna see epic levels of awesome. I have faith it will come together. We may not be first seed, but the defense will find their core. The O-line will come together. (if God smiles on us, we'll bring back BRob as a team leader on D)
It will eventually click... the pieces are there... patience my friends 
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