Quote: @golfervike said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
sorry, i am just not all that thrilled with him as a QB. stats can be very misleading.
heres some that can be considered as well.
2015 9-7
2016 8-7-1
2017 7-9
big time stats are great, but they dont tell a whole picture. how much of those gaudy numbers are built on prevent defenses because they are playing from behind?
I dont watch a ton of skins games, but what I have watched of him has left me thinking that he is a good (not great) QB with some glaring deficiencies in his game and that snyder was dumb to get into a pissing match with him, but even dumber to make him stay and grossly overpay for the performance he was getting. good not great and certainly not worth 25+ million per year IMO.
If he would sign for a contact that built up to bigger money after he shows that he can play better, maybe, but I would be hesitant to pay what others might.
His win/loss record looks a lot like Bradford with Philly and the Rams... and similar to Stafford and Carr. Keenum was 4-5 in St. Louis before coming here.
I get it... I would be hesitant to hand him a ridiculous contract, but if the Vikings can sign him to a contract similar to what Stafford and Carr just signed... I wouldn't be upset at all if the Vikings went that route.
this one is a no brainer here... W-L has nothing to do with the QB.
He had very little to work with the last couple years. he would be a big improvment over case/teddy. and you can't trust Sam to stay healthy at all.
and people complaining about the money just dont see the market like it really is i guess. they just see the $$$'s.
If Carr got 25 mill- and Stafford got 26 mill. that's just the price you gotta pay unless you want a below average QB...
if W/L has nothing to do with the QB, then why are teams overpaying for them and willing to gamble their future for the rights to the top ones in the drafts? The best QBs in the league are perennial playoff contenders, I think QB is a major part of winning and losing. also what others are getting is not necessarily indicative of what the position should be paid. Carr got his big deal on that back of a really good season, if he were to get paid now do you believe it would be as lucrative after his 2017 performance? not likely, teams need to do a better job of not getting suckered into buying at the top of the market. some are worth the huge money, but most are not and only end up handicapping their teams in terms of building around them. this years Vikings team is proof that a mediocre QB can thrive in a great environment, instead of putting all our apples in the QB cart, why dont we continue to build a team that can make almost any decent QB (at a more team friendly price) play at a good enough level to get the job done?
not to mention as snake bitten as the team has been with injuries to players at key positions... can we really say 1 player should get 15-20% of our salary cap?
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's.
so basing a decision strictly on limited stats is rational? I have played and watched the game my whole life, I will trust what I see more than what some limited numbers say, imo that is rational. I have no emotion involved with the decision, basing it on emotion would be irrational. I have said repeatedly that I am find with who ever Zim and Co. ultimately go with, but top level money (25+what weve heard mentioned) for a guy that is only above average in terms of what I (and others) have seen from him on the field... dumb.
Not trying to bait you here, but i know you're pro teddy- correct. is your "gut" telling you this because you believe in the ceiling of teddy still? at a lower cost?
actually I am pro Vikings, I think Teddy has the most intrigue around him, but I wouldnt give him more than a 1 or 2 year deal and with lots of incentives based on performance, and with no guarantees that he wont have real competition for the #1 ( i dont think Sloter is ready yet) so I would be looking at somebody else to either be retained if they want to compete (Case or Sam), but again on incentive based deals. I am not comfortable with giving any of these 3 any contract that lock us in for more than a year at decent starter money 15-20 as there are just to many questions.
from what I heard last summer, Teddy wanted to stay, but wasnt keen on a competition, if that is still true then IMO the team has to move on. of our 3 if nobody thinks that they want to compete for the job, then they dont have faith in themselves and arent willing to prove that they deserve the job.
my gut comes from watching the game and seeing so many 1 year wonders or system guys move to different teams on big contracts and never come close to living up to them. Cousins is not the guy that people want to believe his stats show, he is a slightly above average guy that wants to get paid like a top tier talent, that is a recipe for salary cap disaster and I dont think I have seen anything that says the he is a lock to elevate our O over what we saw this year from Case, which IMO was lacking at key times.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's.
so basing a decision strictly on limited stats is rational? I have played and watched the game my whole life, I will trust what I see more than what some limited numbers say, imo that is rational. I have no emotion involved with the decision, basing it on emotion would be irrational. I have said repeatedly that I am find with who ever Zim and Co. ultimately go with, but top level money (25+what weve heard mentioned) for a guy that is only above average in terms of what I (and others) have seen from him on the field... dumb.
Not trying to bait you here, but i know you're pro teddy- correct. is your "gut" telling you this because you believe in the ceiling of teddy still? at a lower cost?
actually I am pro Vikings, I think Teddy has the most intrigue around him, but I wouldnt give him more than a 1 or 2 year deal and with lots of incentives based on performance, and with no guarantees that he wont have real competition for the #1 ( i dont think Sloter is ready yet) so I would be looking at somebody else to either be retained if they want to compete (Case or Sam), but again on incentive based deals. I am not comfortable with giving any of these 3 any contract that lock us in for more than a year at decent starter money 15-20 as there are just to many questions.
from what I heard last summer, Teddy wanted to stay, but wasnt keen on a competition, if that is still true then IMO the team has to move on. of our 3 if nobody thinks that they want to compete for the job, then they dont have faith in themselves and arent willing to prove that they deserve the job.
my gut comes from watching the game and seeing so many 1 year wonders or system guys move to different teams on big contracts and never come close to living up to them. Cousins is not the guy that people want to believe his stats show, he is a slightly above average guy that wants to get paid like a top tier talent, that is a recipe for salary cap disaster and I dont think I have seen anything that says the he is a lock to elevate our O over what we saw this year from Case, which IMO was lacking at key times.
Stop it, Jimmy. You're pro-Teddy; you can't be objective.
I would love to see the Vikes get Cousins. Health wise I believe he's a safer bet than Sam and I think he's better than either Teddy or Case. I really don't the contract he's going to want would be a deterrent either, I say go get him Rick..
I would sooner take the money that we would pay Cousins and invest it in the Offensive Line.
I think that Zimmer would be happy with just a game manager.
Quote: @Norse said:
I would sooner take the money that we would pay Cousins and invest it in the Offensive Line.
I think that Zimmer would be happy with just a game manager.
yup i think he would too. and i think that will prevent us from being the team we should be.
two of the top 15 WR's in the league.
Cookie coming back
top 5 defense still young.
i fear we peaked with this team this season, because our QB cannot elevate us in the playoffs. our defense has to be HISTORICALLY good to make it in the playoffs, these Elite QB's find ways to beat good defenses.
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ Norse said:
I would sooner take the money that we would pay Cousins and invest it in the Offensive Line.
I think that Zimmer would be happy with just a game manager.
yup i think he would too. and i think that will prevent us from being the team we should be.
two of the top 15 WR's in the league.
Cookie coming back
top 5 defense still young.
i fear we peaked with this team this season, because our QB cannot elevate us in the playoffs. our defense has to be HISTORICALLY good to make it in the playoffs, these Elite QB's find ways to beat good defenses.
foles is far from an elite QB but he had no problem with our great defense. jacksonville had a damn nice run with an average QB as well. a better OL will not only elevate our QB play, (case was often hurried out of the pocket) but it will make our running game much more potent as well.
Quote: @Norse said:
I would sooner take the money that we would pay Cousins and invest it in the Offensive Line.
I think that Zimmer would be happy with just a game manager.
unfortunatley we just learned that we cant win it all with just a game manager
with very few quality fa options in OL, I would gladly have the team pay $25 million for Cousins than $15 million for Case. This team is good enough to get into the playoffs, win 10+ games with anyone at QB, we need someone who can light it up at any moment
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ Norse said:
I would sooner take the money that we would pay Cousins and invest it in the Offensive Line.
I think that Zimmer would be happy with just a game manager.
yup i think he would too. and i think that will prevent us from being the team we should be.
two of the top 15 WR's in the league.
Cookie coming back
top 5 defense still young.
i fear we peaked with this team this season, because our QB cannot elevate us in the playoffs. our defense has to be HISTORICALLY good to make it in the playoffs, these Elite QB's find ways to beat good defenses.
foles is far from an elite QB but he had no problem with our great defense. jacksonville had a damn nice run with an average QB as well. a better OL will not only elevate our QB play, (case was often hurried out of the pocket) but it will make our running game much more potent as well.
Foles played the GAME OF HIS LIFE.
and everyone who watches football knows that Jax was hindered by it's QB play.
that's your argument? that the teams did everything they can to pull their crappy QB to the superbowl?
look at the teams that are always there. most of the time they have a really really good QB.
Look what Warner did for the cards, what farve did for us in 09. how Seattle became Seattle when they got Wilson.
Quote: @Norse said:
I would sooner take the money that we would pay Cousins and invest it in the Offensive Line.
I think that Zimmer would be happy with just a game manager.
I think you're right. But that doesn't mean that he is. I think we saw what a "game manager" got us this year. If the defense doesn't do their jobs, we can't win. It'd be nice to have a QB that is good enough to overcome a bad defense.
|
