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10-30-2017, 11:35 AM

Quote: @NodakViking said:

@comet52 said:
Any comparison favoring Keenum will lead to the "insert 25 excuses for Teddy" bit that is de rigueur for Teddy vs. anyone threads at this point.
It's still less than the 50 excuses Sam got for never having a winning season or winning a meaningful game in the NFL. Does it make any of the excuses less or more valid? no but fine line behind reasoning and excuse making....

Excuses? Or facts based on objective analysis? Is it an excuse to say that Sam had no stability or a worthy supporting cast in his early years? No, it's a fact. A fact that one smart GM used to help him make a deal for him. But, alas, his injury history was also part of that soup. I think we saw the results of that. With a good supporting cast, Sam proved his was better than anyone thought. But still vulnerable to injury.

It's true that Teddy didn't throw for a lot of yards in 2015. But is it an excuse to say that Teddy didn't have the same offense or supporting cast in 2015? No, it's a fact that you have to consider when you make a decision.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous we're even having this conversation. A fully healthy Teddy Bridgewater or Case freaking Keenum? Are you out of your mind? Now, that's an opinion. :-)

And all this comes with the caveat that Teddy may look ready in practice, but he suffered a career threatening knee injury that could impact him mentally. Will he see ghosts after a sack or two? We all saw what happened to Culpepper. Just wasn't the same QB after the injury. We'd all hate to see that, but it's certainly possible. Is that a ready-made excuse? Call it what you want, but it's also a distinct possibility.

Either way, we have to know the truth about Teddy THIS season.

10-30-2017, 01:11 PM

Quote: @MaroonBells said:

@NodakViking said:

@comet52 said:
Any comparison favoring Keenum will lead to the "insert 25 excuses for Teddy" bit that is de rigueur for Teddy vs. anyone threads at this point.
It's still less than the 50 excuses Sam got for never having a winning season or winning a meaningful game in the NFL. Does it make any of the excuses less or more valid? no but fine line behind reasoning and excuse making....
Excuses? Or facts based on objective analysis? Is it an excuse to say that Sam had no stability or a worthy supporting cast in his early years? No, it's a fact. A fact that one smart GM used to help him make a deal for him. But, alas, his injury history was also part of that soup. I think we saw the results of that. With a good supporting cast, Sam proved his was better than anyone thought. But still vulnerable to injury.

It's true that Teddy didn't throw for a lot of yards in 2015. But is it an excuse to say that Teddy didn't have the same offense or supporting cast in 2015? No, it's a fact that you have to consider when you make a decision.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous we're even having this conversation. A fully healthy Teddy Bridgewater or Case freaking Keenum? Are you out of your mind? Now, that's an opinion. :-)

And all this comes with the caveat that Teddy may look ready in practice, but he suffered a career threatening knee injury that could impact him mentally. Will he see ghosts after a sack or two? We all saw what happened to Culpepper. Just wasn't the same QB after the injury. We'd all hate to see that, but it's certainly possible. Is that a ready-made excuse? Call it what you want, but it's also a distinct possibility.

Either way, we have to know the truth about Teddy THIS season.

I don't think you disagreed with me at all. As I said one persons excuse is another's valid point. I've been accused of being a Ted Head when I point out some reasons for his limited offensive fantasy football numbers in 2015.I was trying to make the point that the "25 excuses for Teddy" comment could be countered with the same for Sam and his limited career success.

I also agree they NEED to see how Teddy plays this year so they can make the best informed decision at the QB position going forward. I HOPE they can go into next year with a healthy TB, Case backing him up, and Sloter(if he looks legit) developing still.

If Sloter is questionable in their minds then drafting a QB in 2nd to 5th rounds may be the next best option.

10-30-2017, 01:32 PM

Quote: @MaroonBells said:

@NodakViking said:

@comet52 said:
Any comparison favoring Keenum will lead to the "insert 25 excuses for Teddy" bit that is de rigueur for Teddy vs. anyone threads at this point.
It's still less than the 50 excuses Sam got for never having a winning season or winning a meaningful game in the NFL. Does it make any of the excuses less or more valid? no but fine line behind reasoning and excuse making....
Excuses? Or facts based on objective analysis? Is it an excuse to say that Sam had no stability or a worthy supporting cast in his early years? No, it's a fact. A fact that one smart GM used to help him make a deal for him. But, alas, his injury history was also part of that soup. I think we saw the results of that. With a good supporting cast, Sam proved his was better than anyone thought. But still vulnerable to injury.

It's true that Teddy didn't throw for a lot of yards in 2015. But is it an excuse to say that Teddy didn't have the same offense or supporting cast in 2015? No, it's a fact that you have to consider when you make a decision.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous we're even having this conversation. A fully healthy Teddy Bridgewater or Case freaking Keenum? Are you out of your mind? Now, that's an opinion. :-)

And all this comes with the caveat that Teddy may look ready in practice, but he suffered a career threatening knee injury that could impact him mentally. Will he see ghosts after a sack or two? We all saw what happened to Culpepper. Just wasn't the same QB after the injury. We'd all hate to see that, but it's certainly possible. Is that a ready-made excuse? Call it what you want, but it's also a distinct possibility.

Either way, we have to know the truth about Teddy THIS season.

I agree with all of this Maroon, except I do think we'll see Teddy this season. My feeling is perhaps as soon as the Rams game. I don't feel real good about us going up against the Redskins in their house. We aren't a great road team by any means and really the Redskins played the Cowboys pretty good yesterday and that was with them missing 2 or 3 starting O-linemen and then Breeland missing and Kerrigan getting knocked out of the game. They are a pretty balanced team with a good running game and when Cousins is on he can really light it up. I feel like we're going to lay an egg in this one, setting the stage for Teddy's return. I think the team wants to get Teddy out there. They have a huge offseason decision at QB and they need to see if Teddy can still play....not to mention, they want the fan buzz from it, too.

10-30-2017, 01:50 PM

Quote: @NodakViking said:

@MaroonBells said:

@NodakViking said:

@comet52 said:
Any comparison favoring Keenum will lead to the "insert 25 excuses for Teddy" bit that is de rigueur for Teddy vs. anyone threads at this point.
It's still less than the 50 excuses Sam got for never having a winning season or winning a meaningful game in the NFL. Does it make any of the excuses less or more valid? no but fine line behind reasoning and excuse making....
Excuses? Or facts based on objective analysis? Is it an excuse to say that Sam had no stability or a worthy supporting cast in his early years? No, it's a fact. A fact that one smart GM used to help him make a deal for him. But, alas, his injury history was also part of that soup. I think we saw the results of that. With a good supporting cast, Sam proved his was better than anyone thought. But still vulnerable to injury.

It's true that Teddy didn't throw for a lot of yards in 2015. But is it an excuse to say that Teddy didn't have the same offense or supporting cast in 2015? No, it's a fact that you have to consider when you make a decision.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous we're even having this conversation. A fully healthy Teddy Bridgewater or Case freaking Keenum? Are you out of your mind? Now, that's an opinion. :-)

And all this comes with the caveat that Teddy may look ready in practice, but he suffered a career threatening knee injury that could impact him mentally. Will he see ghosts after a sack or two? We all saw what happened to Culpepper. Just wasn't the same QB after the injury. We'd all hate to see that, but it's certainly possible. Is that a ready-made excuse? Call it what you want, but it's also a distinct possibility.

Either way, we have to know the truth about Teddy THIS season.
I don't think you disagreed with me at all. As I said one persons excuse is another's valid point. I've been accused of being a Ted Head when I point out some reasons for his limited offensive fantasy football numbers in 2015.I was trying to make the point that the "25 excuses for Teddy" comment could be countered with the same for Sam and his limited career success.

I also agree they NEED to see how Teddy plays this year so they can make the best informed decision at the QB position going forward. I HOPE they can go into next year with a healthy TB, Case backing him up, and Sloter(if he looks legit) developing still.

If Sloter is questionable in their minds then drafting a QB in 2nd to 5th rounds may be the next best option.

My post wasn't meant to disagree with you. Just a general complaint that too many take a side and then bring in information (data, stats, etc) to support that side. You can call it fact or excuse, but my biggest point is that when you're not taking a side, you can be more objective. The Vikings coaching staff, for example, can't afford to take a side. They have to make the best decision based on the information they have. We can't have all the information they do (like how Teddy looks in practice, what's going on with Sam's knee, how many mistakes has Case made). But my guess is that Teddy goes in week 10. And I could be completely wrong about that.

10-30-2017, 03:06 PM

Keenum's stats vs some others of interest:

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YP/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RATE	YDS/G
21	Dak Prescott, QB	DAL	142	226	62.8	1,569	6.94	72	14	4	9	96.6	224
22	Case Keenum, QB	MIN	149	233	63.9	1,610	6.91	59	7	3	5	88.8	230
23	Derek Carr, QB	OAK	155	240	64.6	1,654	6.89	64	12	6	9	90.9	236
24	Matthew Stafford, QB	DET	163	270	60.4	1,851	6.86	45	12	4	25	89.6	264
25	Tyrod Taylor, QB	BUF	125	196	63.8	1,343	6.85	47	8	2	19	93.1	192

10-30-2017, 04:18 PM

10-30-2017, 11:06 PM

I think based on Keenums performance so far this season it might be tough to retain him as a backup.

10-30-2017, 11:21 PM

Quote: @Norse said:
I think based on Keenums performance so far this season it might be tough to retain him as a backup.

I see some team that is drafting a high round qb this year offering Case a nice 2 to 3 year deal to start year 1 but be willing to mentor the youngster to take over when ready.

10-31-2017, 12:24 AM

Quote: @NodakViking said:

@holmanjp said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Montana Tom said:
I thought I’d do a YPG comparison. Keenum through 6.5 games (I counted the Bears game as 1/2). 203 YPG avg. Int’s .3 / game. Teddy was 201 YPG, .56 Int’s/game. I’m sure anyone can do the rest of the stat comparison, but I’d offer that Keenum has acquitted himself well as a backup vs. Teddy...and to throw some controversy into it...perhaps better than a backup.
That's not a fair comparison. Keenum is in his 6th season. Teddy was in his 2nd. What's more, the offensive line has been completely rebuilt. For example, Joe Berger, the weak spot on our line this year, was its strength in 2015. Further, Diggs was a rookie and wasn't even active early on. Our best receivers were Mike Wallace and Charles Johnson that year.

The scheme is completely different, too. 2015's was a running offense meant to slowly develop a young QB. This is no such offense. Teddy had several games when he didn't throw more than 20 passes. Case threw the ball 43 times today.

I love that we have Keenum as our QB2 and he's played well. But he's not a long-term starter, and we'll likely find that out the hard way in the next several weeks if we're not careful.

The scheme is completely different, too. 2015's was a running offense

The 2015 team ran the ball. 29.5 times per game.
2017 / 29.3 times per game
Never mind, you are correct they ran the ball a lot more in 2015.

since you are logged into a stat site what % of plays run were run in 2015 vs 2017. I'll venture to guess we are running significantly more plays and hence a lot more pass plays.

65.8 Off plays per game 2017
60.5 in 2015

10-31-2017, 12:39 AM

sometimes its not how many runs or passes you do.... its when you do them. in 2015 we were in dog fights to the end because we ran on 1st and 2nd down way way way to fucking much early in the games until we were forced to go the the pass on third down and late in the game to try and claw back from early deficits. this year it seems we are a little more pass favoring early with the run run run coming later in the game when we are trying to take the air out of the ball. so although the numbers are similar they are really painting much different stories.