Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Daniels at 6 would be surprising to put it mildly...Not everyone sees it the same, but I can absolutely see top 4 gone well b4 pick 11.
If, big if...Kirk doesn't sign with us, you have to hope it's Atlanta to remove them from possibly drafting a QB as a team picking before us
why does that prevent them from going QB? It shouldnt have prevented us from going QB after we drafted him, and shouldnt prevent them from taking a QB if they resign him ( well it should as they would be going all in and could use the pick better elsewhere, but you get the drift.)
Because what is going to move Cousins from Minnesota to Atlanta (or whoever) is term length.
and they are going to sign him to a contract that is longer than that of a first round rookie? no way in hell, despite your insistence that age is irrelevant, Kirk is not going to last forever and every GM out there knows that he has a shelf life and should be ( should have been ) planning for his replacement already. I would say its all about guaranteed money, regardless of the length of contract, and if ATL has the cap space and the team ready to contend, why wouldnt they want to grab a QB to mentor under KC in the event the he isnt superman and is going to decline?
I don't know what you mean by a contract longer than that of a 1st round rookie. Am I misreading that? Or do you really think we're talking about 5 year deals here?
Vikings are probably agreeable to 2 years. Cousins likely wants 3. Whoever is able to pull Cousins from Minnesota is going to do it by guaranteeing money in a 3rd year. If Atlanta signs Cousins for 3 years, it's extremely unlikely they're going to draft a QB at 8.
why wouldnt they? If Cousins goes there and things go as planned, there are not likely to be drafting at 8 again in the near future, so if you take a first round QB and get 3 cheap years and 2 higher cost years out of him, and you only sign Kirk for 3 years... how does that not work out for a team that is only a QB away from contending ( sound familiar ? )?
point is, having a starting QB shouldnt preclude a team from making a real investment in the future, failure to do so is exactly why the Vikings are in the shit boat they currently are in. If I am ATL and one of the young QBs sparks and interest and he is available ( even with a trade up ) then I would think that is a perfect scenario, your QB of today has the team in contention, while the QB of the future learns from him. Would have been ideal for us if they had gotten after QBs a few years ago instead of drafting and trading picks for immediate enjoyment.
Because the compulsion to add surround to their new investment will be too strong. At #8 they will likely be looking at the 2nd best WR and the very best defensive player in the draft. Could they draft the 4th or 5th best QB there and put him behind Kirk?? Sure, anything's possible. I just don't think it's very likely, given what we know about them.
The only reason we're even talking about those QBs in the top 8 is mostly due to urgency and desperation on the part of several QB-needy teams. An urgency that will not be there with Atlanta. What's more, part of their appeal to Cousins will be that they have the 8th overall pick to fortify his surround. You can pretty safely bet it will be used in negotiations.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Daniels at 6 would be surprising to put it mildly...Not everyone sees it the same, but I can absolutely see top 4 gone well b4 pick 11.
If, big if...Kirk doesn't sign with us, you have to hope it's Atlanta to remove them from possibly drafting a QB as a team picking before us
why does that prevent them from going QB? It shouldnt have prevented us from going QB after we drafted him, and shouldnt prevent them from taking a QB if they resign him ( well it should as they would be going all in and could use the pick better elsewhere, but you get the drift.)
Because what is going to move Cousins from Minnesota to Atlanta (or whoever) is term length.
and they are going to sign him to a contract that is longer than that of a first round rookie? no way in hell, despite your insistence that age is irrelevant, Kirk is not going to last forever and every GM out there knows that he has a shelf life and should be ( should have been ) planning for his replacement already. I would say its all about guaranteed money, regardless of the length of contract, and if ATL has the cap space and the team ready to contend, why wouldnt they want to grab a QB to mentor under KC in the event the he isnt superman and is going to decline?
I don't know what you mean by a contract longer than that of a 1st round rookie. Am I misreading that? Or do you really think we're talking about 5 year deals here?
Vikings are probably agreeable to 2 years. Cousins likely wants 3. Whoever is able to pull Cousins from Minnesota is going to do it by guaranteeing money in a 3rd year. If Atlanta signs Cousins for 3 years, it's extremely unlikely they're going to draft a QB at 8.
why wouldnt they? If Cousins goes there and things go as planned, there are not likely to be drafting at 8 again in the near future, so if you take a first round QB and get 3 cheap years and 2 higher cost years out of him, and you only sign Kirk for 3 years... how does that not work out for a team that is only a QB away from contending ( sound familiar ? )?
point is, having a starting QB shouldnt preclude a team from making a real investment in the future, failure to do so is exactly why the Vikings are in the shit boat they currently are in. If I am ATL and one of the young QBs sparks and interest and he is available ( even with a trade up ) then I would think that is a perfect scenario, your QB of today has the team in contention, while the QB of the future learns from him. Would have been ideal for us if they had gotten after QBs a few years ago instead of drafting and trading picks for immediate enjoyment.
Because the compulsion to add surround to their new investment will be too strong. At #8 they will likely be looking at the 2nd best WR and the very best defensive player in the draft. Could they draft the 4th or 5th best QB there and put him behind Kirk?? Sure, anything's possible. I just don't think it's very likely, given what we know about them.
The only reason we're even talking about those QBs in the top 8 is mostly due to urgency and desperation on the part of several QB-needy teams. An urgency that will not be there with Atlanta. What's more, part of their appeal to Cousins will be that they have the 8th overall pick to fortify his surround. You can pretty safely bet it will be used in negotiations.
Everyone envies the Packers ability to make a nearly 3 decade run of quality seasons, it's because they planned ahead, have tried to do the same with Love, that remains to be seen, but if teams want dynasties and not just fun years once in a while, their approach is proven, even if they had missed with Rodgers, they gave themselves enough time to have tried again.
Atl is in position to do the same, drafting for today is how teams end up mired in mediocrity, build for the future and stay focused on that plan IMO.
2 things IMO:
- If Atlanta signs Cousins, they won't draft a QB at #8.
- I think New England definitely will draft a QB unless Harrison falls to them. Doesn't matter what their state of talent is if they like a QB. But if they don't love a guy, then don't....because they'll probably be drafting top 5 again next year.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
2 things IMO:
- If Atlanta signs Cousins, they won't draft a QB at #8.
- I think New England definitely will draft a QB unless Harrison falls to them. Doesn't matter what their state of talent is if they like a QB. But if they don't love a guy, then don't....because they'll probably be drafting top 5 again next year.
Pats pick 3rd, I think there is a 98% (I did the math  that Harrison is available.
Spotrac has him valued at close to 40 million per year for a 3 year contract and I want no part of that dollar amount or years.
I would be happy with a 2 year 75-80 million and then draft a first round QB to groom.
I am concerned that Kirk will not be 100% very soon if ever again. It is a risky move for a 3rd year GM.
I think now is the time to set a new direction with a much cheaper bridge vet QB and a rookie and sign all of our young studs - Hunter, Darrisaw, JJ
But I also don't think we are that close to contending for a SB.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ StickyBun said:
2 things IMO:
- If Atlanta signs Cousins, they won't draft a QB at #8.
- I think New England definitely will draft a QB unless Harrison falls to them. Doesn't matter what their state of talent is if they like a QB. But if they don't love a guy, then don't....because they'll probably be drafting top 5 again next year.
Pats pick 3rd, I think there is a 98% (I did the math that Harrison is available.
Spotrac has him valued at close to 40 million per year for a 3 year contract and I want no part of that dollar amount or years.
I would be happy with a 2 year 75-80 million and then draft a first round QB to groom.
I am concerned that Kirk will not be 100% very soon if ever again. It is a risky move for a 3rd year GM.
I think now is the time to set a new direction with a much cheaper bridge vet QB and a rookie and sign all of our young studs - Hunter, Darrisaw, JJ
But I also don't think we are that close to contending for a SB.
Harrison will absolutely be there at #3, but I have a hard time believing the Patriots won't take a QB there, especially after they just witnessed the impact CJ Stroud had in Houston for a first year coach (who also happens to be a former LB). Also hearing a lot of talk on NFL Radio that Mac Jones has lost the locker room and will likely be on the move this offseason. Pats need a lot, but a good QB can cover a lot of stink and I think that's the direction they go in first.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Harrison will absolutely be there at #3, but I have a hard time believing the Patriots won't take a QB there, especially after they just witnessed the impact CJ Stroud had in Houston for a first year coach (who also happens to be a former LB). Also hearing a lot of talk on NFL Radio that Mac Jones has lost the locker room and will likely be on the move this offseason. Pats need a lot, but a good QB can cover a lot of stink and I think that's the direction they go in first.
Everything has definitely pointed to NE going QB, however I have a feeling by draft time they may pivot, while Caleb Williams could be a generational talent, Maye and Daniels could potentially be Zack Wilson, both are far from being sure things, I think when they start getting some insane offers for the pick that they will seriously consider trading down and using the picks to totally rebuild their roster and then maybe go with a guy like Penix with their high 2nd round pick. I think Daniels is more likely the guy at 3 who I think is pretty risky at that spot, personally I would rather have a boatload of picks to build my roster and someone like Penix.
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Harrison will absolutely be there at #3, but I have a hard time believing the Patriots won't take a QB there, especially after they just witnessed the impact CJ Stroud had in Houston for a first year coach (who also happens to be a former LB). Also hearing a lot of talk on NFL Radio that Mac Jones has lost the locker room and will likely be on the move this offseason. Pats need a lot, but a good QB can cover a lot of stink and I think that's the direction they go in first.
Everything has definitely pointed to NE going QB, however I have a feeling by draft time they may pivot, while Caleb Williams could be a generational talent, Maye and Daniels could potentially be Zack Wilson, both are far from being sure things, I think when they start getting some insane offers for the pick that they will seriously consider trading down and using the picks to totally rebuild their roster and then maybe go with a guy like Penix with their high 2nd round pick. I think Daniels is more likely the guy at 3 who I think is pretty risky at that spot, personally I would rather have a boatload of picks to build my roster and someone like Penix. A mock someone posted the other day had us trading our 2024, '25, and '26 firsts for their third overall pick. If KAM truly offered that I have to think New England would accept it over taking the #3 QB available.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ JR44 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Harrison will absolutely be there at #3, but I have a hard time believing the Patriots won't take a QB there, especially after they just witnessed the impact CJ Stroud had in Houston for a first year coach (who also happens to be a former LB). Also hearing a lot of talk on NFL Radio that Mac Jones has lost the locker room and will likely be on the move this offseason. Pats need a lot, but a good QB can cover a lot of stink and I think that's the direction they go in first.
Everything has definitely pointed to NE going QB, however I have a feeling by draft time they may pivot, while Caleb Williams could be a generational talent, Maye and Daniels could potentially be Zack Wilson, both are far from being sure things, I think when they start getting some insane offers for the pick that they will seriously consider trading down and using the picks to totally rebuild their roster and then maybe go with a guy like Penix with their high 2nd round pick. I think Daniels is more likely the guy at 3 who I think is pretty risky at that spot, personally I would rather have a boatload of picks to build my roster and someone like Penix. A mock someone posted the other day had us trading our 2024, '25, and '26 firsts for their third overall pick. If KAM truly offered that I have to think New England would accept it over taking the #3 QB available.
Three first round picks to move up 8 spots would be brutal
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ JR44 said:
@ supafreak84 said:
Harrison will absolutely be there at #3, but I have a hard time believing the Patriots won't take a QB there, especially after they just witnessed the impact CJ Stroud had in Houston for a first year coach (who also happens to be a former LB). Also hearing a lot of talk on NFL Radio that Mac Jones has lost the locker room and will likely be on the move this offseason. Pats need a lot, but a good QB can cover a lot of stink and I think that's the direction they go in first.
Everything has definitely pointed to NE going QB, however I have a feeling by draft time they may pivot, while Caleb Williams could be a generational talent, Maye and Daniels could potentially be Zack Wilson, both are far from being sure things, I think when they start getting some insane offers for the pick that they will seriously consider trading down and using the picks to totally rebuild their roster and then maybe go with a guy like Penix with their high 2nd round pick. I think Daniels is more likely the guy at 3 who I think is pretty risky at that spot, personally I would rather have a boatload of picks to build my roster and someone like Penix. A mock someone posted the other day had us trading our 2024, '25, and '26 firsts for their third overall pick. If KAM truly offered that I have to think New England would accept it over taking the #3 QB available.
Three first round picks to move up 8 spots would be brutal
And yet if Kirk leaves and option 2 is tanking, I could see it. Desperate times and all
ESPN Draft analyst Matt Miller just came out with an article where he identifies only 16 prospects with "true first round grades" this year. Of the 16 are the top 3 QB prospects (doesn't consider the rest to have true first round grades). Dallas Turner and Jared Verse are the only edges. Byron Murphy the only DT.
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