Quote: @medaille said:
I think you should ask yourself, just how popular pro-terrorist
belief systems actually are. We openly
have national-level politicians advocating for the “leveling” of gaza, which IS
genocide. To a normal, sane person, that
is a similar level of crazy as some students advocating for terrorism. In reality, I think what’s happening is that
the only the extreme voices, which are not popular, are getting amplified
because it gets people riled up, increases engagement for media companies, and
increases the need for the government to act to stop the “bad” people.
You should also ask yourself if your belief systems could be
misconstrued as being pro-apartheid and pro-genocide? I think you are probably on the very extreme
in how benevolent you think Israel has been to the Palestinians, and that gives
you a much different opinion than people who are more of the mind that Israel has
been oppressing Palestinians, because to them it sounds like you support Israel
terrorizing Palestinians.
For me, I was alive for the first war on terror. I saw how the media vilified terrorists, and
how it led to anti-islamic beliefs in some people, and how we fought against
the terrorists and killed more civilians than we killed actual terrorists. Then I learned that we funded and trained all
the terrorist groups to initially fight against our enemies before having to
fight against them ourselves. It made me
question who the real terrorists were.
Then I saw us leave a ton of weapons in Afghanistan. I saw us ship tons of weapons to Ukraine with
no oversight only for them to end up on the black market. Our leaders have long supported terrorists
and dictators as long as it supported their goals. When I see them support BLM and antifa razing
our cities. When I see them supporting DA’s
that let criminals go free. When I see
them labeling republican citizens as “Domestic Terrorists” and half of the
people in the “Domestic Terrorist” groups are FBI assets, I wonder how long it’s
going to be before they turn the “war on terror” against us citizens.
definitely cant allow Israel to level Gaza, i mentioned it another post, the only way to do this is a door to door, that will be a messy bloody campaign for who ever is involved. I have seen that the other Arab countries in that region are petitioning Israel to cease fire, IMO Israel then puts it on its Muslim neighbors to take care of the problem. Let those other countries send troops into Gaza and let them go door to door with the assigned goal of rooting out the terrorists, or put it on them to get the civilians out while Israelis forces clean up the rest. I dont see this ending well for any involved, but I really dont see Israel allowing a Gaza that isnt under their control going forward.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I think you should ask yourself, just how popular pro-terrorist
belief systems actually are. We openly
have national-level politicians advocating for the “leveling” of gaza, which IS
genocide. To a normal, sane person, that
is a similar level of crazy as some students advocating for terrorism. In reality, I think what’s happening is that
the only the extreme voices, which are not popular, are getting amplified
because it gets people riled up, increases engagement for media companies, and
increases the need for the government to act to stop the “bad” people.
You should also ask yourself if your belief systems could be
misconstrued as being pro-apartheid and pro-genocide? I think you are probably on the very extreme
in how benevolent you think Israel has been to the Palestinians, and that gives
you a much different opinion than people who are more of the mind that Israel has
been oppressing Palestinians, because to them it sounds like you support Israel
terrorizing Palestinians.
For me, I was alive for the first war on terror. I saw how the media vilified terrorists, and
how it led to anti-islamic beliefs in some people, and how we fought against
the terrorists and killed more civilians than we killed actual terrorists. Then I learned that we funded and trained all
the terrorist groups to initially fight against our enemies before having to
fight against them ourselves. It made me
question who the real terrorists were.
Then I saw us leave a ton of weapons in Afghanistan. I saw us ship tons of weapons to Ukraine with
no oversight only for them to end up on the black market. Our leaders have long supported terrorists
and dictators as long as it supported their goals. When I see them support BLM and antifa razing
our cities. When I see them supporting DA’s
that let criminals go free. When I see
them labeling republican citizens as “Domestic Terrorists” and half of the
people in the “Domestic Terrorist” groups are FBI assets, I wonder how long it’s
going to be before they turn the “war on terror” against us citizens.
definitely cant allow Israel to level Gaza, i mentioned it another post, the only way to do this is a door to door, that will be a messy bloody campaign for who ever is involved. I have seen that the other Arab countries in that region are petitioning Israel to cease fire, IMO Israel then puts it on its Muslim neighbors to take care of the problem. Let those other countries send troops into Gaza and let them go door to door with the assigned goal of rooting out the terrorists, or put it on them to get the civilians out while Israelis forces clean up the rest. I dont see this ending well for any involved, but I really dont see Israel allowing a Gaza that isnt under their control going forward.
Israel will never know peace, as long as it controls the
well-being of those in Gaza, and those in Gaza have a significantly lower
standard of living than those living in Israel proper. Either they relinquish control, and Gaza can
thrive or not on their own merit, or they can maintain control and bring them
prosperity. Those are the only two
pathways to peace for Israel.
I’m skeptical that a door to door approach is feasible. I think if it was more like the police, where
you could get a warrant for specific people perform a trial where it was clear
that only bad people were getting punished and that you were making Gaza safer,
that would be an option. But I don’t
think that’s how it would play out in reality.
I think that almost by definition, it’s difficult to tell who is a
terrorist and who is a civilian. The
military will walk door to door. They
will accidentally kill civilians. You’re
going to have some IDF, who are actively racist, intentionally killing Palestinians. The government will pretend it never happened
or cover it up. People who are friends
with terrorists but don’t know they’re terrorists will see that the government
just showed up and took their friend away with a bag over their head and they
were never seen again. Rumors will
spread and every person the IDF kills or takes away will be another George
Floyd, a call to arms against an oppressive regime.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ medaille said:
I think you should ask yourself, just how popular pro-terrorist
belief systems actually are. We openly
have national-level politicians advocating for the “leveling” of gaza, which IS
genocide. To a normal, sane person, that
is a similar level of crazy as some students advocating for terrorism. In reality, I think what’s happening is that
the only the extreme voices, which are not popular, are getting amplified
because it gets people riled up, increases engagement for media companies, and
increases the need for the government to act to stop the “bad” people.
You should also ask yourself if your belief systems could be
misconstrued as being pro-apartheid and pro-genocide? I think you are probably on the very extreme
in how benevolent you think Israel has been to the Palestinians, and that gives
you a much different opinion than people who are more of the mind that Israel has
been oppressing Palestinians, because to them it sounds like you support Israel
terrorizing Palestinians.
For me, I was alive for the first war on terror. I saw how the media vilified terrorists, and
how it led to anti-islamic beliefs in some people, and how we fought against
the terrorists and killed more civilians than we killed actual terrorists. Then I learned that we funded and trained all
the terrorist groups to initially fight against our enemies before having to
fight against them ourselves. It made me
question who the real terrorists were.
Then I saw us leave a ton of weapons in Afghanistan. I saw us ship tons of weapons to Ukraine with
no oversight only for them to end up on the black market. Our leaders have long supported terrorists
and dictators as long as it supported their goals. When I see them support BLM and antifa razing
our cities. When I see them supporting DA’s
that let criminals go free. When I see
them labeling republican citizens as “Domestic Terrorists” and half of the
people in the “Domestic Terrorist” groups are FBI assets, I wonder how long it’s
going to be before they turn the “war on terror” against us citizens.
definitely cant allow Israel to level Gaza, i mentioned it another post, the only way to do this is a door to door, that will be a messy bloody campaign for who ever is involved. I have seen that the other Arab countries in that region are petitioning Israel to cease fire, IMO Israel then puts it on its Muslim neighbors to take care of the problem. Let those other countries send troops into Gaza and let them go door to door with the assigned goal of rooting out the terrorists, or put it on them to get the civilians out while Israelis forces clean up the rest. I dont see this ending well for any involved, but I really dont see Israel allowing a Gaza that isnt under their control going forward.
Israel will never know peace, as long as it controls the
well-being of those in Gaza, and those in Gaza have a significantly lower
standard of living than those living in Israel proper. Either they relinquish control, and Gaza can
thrive or not on their own merit, or they can maintain control and bring them
prosperity. Those are the only two
pathways to peace for Israel.
I’m skeptical that a door to door approach is feasible. I think if it was more like the police, where
you could get a warrant for specific people perform a trial where it was clear
that only bad people were getting punished and that you were making Gaza safer,
that would be an option. But I don’t
think that’s how it would play out in reality.
I think that almost by definition, it’s difficult to tell who is a
terrorist and who is a civilian. The
military will walk door to door. They
will accidentally kill civilians. You’re
going to have some IDF, who are actively racist, intentionally killing Palestinians. The government will pretend it never happened
or cover it up. People who are friends
with terrorists but don’t know they’re terrorists will see that the government
just showed up and took their friend away with a bag over their head and they
were never seen again. Rumors will
spread and every person the IDF kills or takes away will be another George
Floyd, a call to arms against an oppressive regime.
No, I agree, the IDF cant be the ones going door to door, it would take a coalition effort of Muslim nations if it had even an ice cubes chance in hell of working, even then it would be slim at most. I do think the Palestinian would likely be better off under Israeli rule, or even Egyptian rule, than allowing any shred of Hamas to remain, of course nature has a way of filling a vacuum and rarely in the middle east do a new regime improve things over the one deposed unless there is a major military presence to keep the peace, but I think that just leads to a lazy gov't which gets toppled as soon as foreign forces move out ( see Afghanistan ) There certainly are no easy solutions.
There's no doubt that Israel/Netanyahu have been heavy handed with the Palestinians and Hamas in particular. I can't say I blame them, however. Hamas has sworn to fight to the death for the extinction of Israel along with the other Iranian proxies in the area. Hamas and the PLO prior exist only to perpetuate terror. Hamas uses the aid that Palestine is given to buy weaponry, build tunnels and incentivize terrorist martyrs. The conditions in Gaza have deteriorated over the years since the Abraham Accords from when Israel was in charge. The schools and infrastucture haven't changed since that time period. We can complain about the conditions in Gaza but imagine how different that might be without Hamas.
Calling out Israel as an "apartheid" State is nonsensical at best. As Jimmy pointed out above, approximately 10% of the Israeli population is Muslim and work visas are offered to Palestinian residents. Palestine is 100% Muslim. Which one sounds like an Apartheid State? Is it Apartheid to have controlled borders to keep out the terrorists that have sworn to your destruction?
Simple question tells you all you need to know. What would happen if Palestine dismantled Hamas, lay down their weapons and agreed to peace with Israel? Peace would break out. Conversely, what would happen if Israel laid down their weapons and agreed to Peace? War would break out. That should tell you all you need to know about who's responsible for the continued hostility in the region. And yes, I'm aware of the longstanding hostilities in the region and the role of the League of Nations in all of this but it's not going to change at this point.
The people of Palestine need to choose peace instead of Hamas. Only than can they have the lives they deserve.
In a world that throws around the word 'complicated' to describe things that aren't indeed complicated......this situation truly is complicated.
Hamas needs to be dismantled, not sure its entirely possible
I'd love to see Netanyahu ride off into the sunset
Unfortuntately, the people of Gaza are being subject to annihilation and the majority of them I suspect want to live in peace
Its a big humanitarian tragedy, just the latest chapter.
If we're going to call out wrongs and sins, lets all take a moment to acknowledge the Islamaphobia that is rearing its head more now too.
I come from a Christian/Jewish hh and condemn that as well as anti-semitism. Unfortunately both are heavily woven into our society/culture.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Hamas needs to be dismantled, not sure its entirely possible
I'd love to see Netanyahu ride off into the sunset
Unfortuntately, the people of Gaza are being subject to annihilation and the majority of them I suspect want to live in peace
Its a big humanitarian tragedy, just the latest chapter.
If we're going to call out wrongs and sins, lets all take a moment to acknowledge the Islamaphobia that is rearing its head more now too.
I come from a Christian/Jewish hh and condemn that as well as anti-semitism. Unfortunately both are heavily woven into our society/culture.
I dont see much on the lines of anti Muslim, as much as it is anti Hamas( terrorist). The people that I have spoken with about this all share the same concern I have, how to destroy Hamas and any other terror cells in that region, with as little civilian casualties as possible. I still think that we need to be pressuring the neighboring Islamic countries to do the dirty work with Israeli support, although I honestly dont know enough about the dynamics of the region to know if that is even possible. I have to think that the support that is shown for Hamas, Hezbollah and the other "political"/terror cells in the region are more out of fear of retribution if anybody speaks against them, I am coming to see the way they call them open air prisons, but IMO it appears that the jailers are fellow Muslims and the wardens are the Muslim terror organizations.
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