Quote: @greediron said:
@ JR44 said:
@ greediron said:
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough. Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.
I think it is a timing thing. Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.
As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.
FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@ greediron said:
@ JR44 said:
@ greediron said:
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough. Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.
I think it is a timing thing. Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.
As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.
FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.
Yep, but at the same time I get why when Kirko said: I threw it a touch behind because the safety was coming. But then I would retort the window is too tight for that throw with 2 defenders right at the goal line converging. I'd say a sub optimal decision by Kirk....BUT...KJ has too fight harder than that for the ball.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ greediron said:
@ JR44 said:
@ greediron said:
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough. Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.
I think it is a timing thing. Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.
As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.
FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.
Yep, but at the same time I get why when Kirko said: I threw it a touch behind because the safety was coming. But then I would retort the window is too tight for that throw with 2 defenders right at the goal line converging. I'd say a sub optimal decision by Kirk....BUT...KJ has too fight harder than that for the ball.
KJs momentum was taking him away from the defender and the ball, not a lot he could have done there IMO. Kirk led the defender to the spot by locking on KJ from the snap and then put the ball where the defender had the best position to make the play. That ball should have never been thrown in that situation.
the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped, it should have been pulled up to his body.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped, it should have been pulled up to his body.
First of all Matt Ryan is the last person to comment on QB miscues, secondly David Copperfield was not going go get that ball to his body, Cousin was just taking the snap when the ball was knocked out, Ryan's comment makes no sense, it isn't like Cousins was just sitting there in suspended motion. Either the center did not get the ball out quick enough or Ingram was out of his stance early.
Looks like an undrafted FA that was picked in the 2nd round to me.
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped, it should have been pulled up to his body.
First of all Matt Ryan is the last person to comment on QB miscues, secondly David Copperfield was not going go get that ball to his body, Cousin was just taking the snap when the ball was knocked out, Ryan's comment makes no sense, it isn't like Cousins was just sitting there in suspended motion. Either the center did not get the ball out quick enough or Ingram was out of his stance early.
you dont have to be Montana or Brady to recognize disconnects in the way the things are supposed to be, hell some of the best coaches were 3rd tier QBs themselves. either way, I have my doubts that a 300# OG, should be able to get out of his stance, turn, and rip the ball away faster than the QB should be able to take the snap and get it into his body. Maybe Ingram is just that damn good of an athlete, maybe the exchange wasnt clean and Kirk was slow getting the ball up, I dont know, what I know is that putting that on Ingram is just looking for more reasons to hate on the kid. I dont think I have ever seen this happen before, but I dont think I have ever heard an OL coach talk about making sure the QB is clear prior to pulling, the timing of the snap and everything that goes into the developing play should make this about damn near impossible, but yet once again... the fucking Vikings find a new way to make the impossible a reality.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ greediron said:
@ JR44 said:
@ greediron said:
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough. Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.
I think it is a timing thing. Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.
As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.
FWIW, on the broadcast Matt Ryan criticized Kirko's ball placement on that play.
Yep, but at the same time I get why when Kirko said: I threw it a touch behind because the safety was coming. But then I would retort the window is too tight for that throw with 2 defenders right at the goal line converging. I'd say a sub optimal decision by Kirk....BUT...KJ has too fight harder than that for the ball.
KJs momentum was taking him away from the defender and the ball, not a lot he could have done there IMO. Kirk led the defender to the spot by locking on KJ from the snap and then put the ball where the defender had the best position to make the play. That ball should have never been thrown in that situation.
the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped, it should have been pulled up to his body.
Yeah I was a bit confused as well on that comment. Had a long comment about Ryan knowing about bad placement that I deleted.
As to the fumble, I think I saw KOC saying that it was just a fluke and that Kirk had the ball secured properly.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
KJs momentum was taking him away from the defender and the ball, not a lot he could have done there IMO. Kirk led the defender to the spot by locking on KJ from the snap and then put the ball where the defender had the best position to make the play. That ball should have never been thrown in that situation.
the matt ryan comment above was about the ingram strip, Kirk shouldnt have had the ball there to be stripped, it should have been pulled up to his body.
Wait, your saying that an NFL WR, someone who is supposed to be great at catching the ball, and who wants to be the #2 WR on a passing ream can't do more to catch the ball? I don't buy it. It is the most important thing he has to do, CATCH the ball! KJ is a nice story, but he is not a sure catcher, he drops too many balls and he is poor in contested catches. I said all off season he is not a #2 and he will not be back next year unless he signs a middling contract. Addison will be the #2 soon.
As for Ingrams, I hate to say it, but the Vikes are leaning into the definition of insane: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
As for Ingrams, I hate to say it, but the Vikes are leaning into the definition of insane: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Brandel time.
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