What comes first for KOC?

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

[Guest]

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yes, leave it to the Vikings to become the first team in sports history for whom wins and losses can not be used as a worthwhile metric to evaluate the team.

Yes and most of us are using the LOSS in the game that mattered most as the worthwhile metric for evaluation. 

One game. Coming from you, that's not surprising. But I would say most reasonable people use the entire season--the wins and the losses, the good and the bad--to evaluate the team, and its prospects for 2023. 

One game? We were a flawed football team all season that pulled out a record number of single score, miracle wins. Losing to a good team (not even an upper echelon team like SF, Philly, or Dallas) at home in the first round of the playoffs was more telling as the "worthwhile metric of evaluation." So yeah, continue to be excited about those 13 wins from last year if it floats your boat. 

And the year before lost a record number of close games, with 8 of our 9 losses by one score. 2022 was a regression to the mean (and beyond) in terms of close games.

I've said it before but that was essentially the same team--a 10-11 win team who lost a couple more than they should have, then the next year, won a couple more than they should have. But Cousins playing less risk averse and KOC coaching better situational football also played a part. 

Same thing will happen this year, as we lose a couple more of those either-way games, because that's just how the NFL works. But I also think we'll be less vulnerable to the blowout. 

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

You don't have to mention him. Your agenda comes through loud and clear. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yes, leave it to the Vikings to become the first team in sports history for whom wins and losses can not be used as a worthwhile metric to evaluate the team.

Yes and most of us are using the LOSS in the game that mattered most as the worthwhile metric for evaluation. 

One game. Coming from you, that's not surprising. But I would say most reasonable people use the entire season--the wins and the losses, the good and the bad--to evaluate the team, and its prospects for 2023. 

One game? We were a flawed football team all season that pulled out a record number of single score, miracle wins. Losing to a good team (not even an upper echelon team like SF, Philly, or Dallas) at home in the first round of the playoffs was more telling as the "worthwhile metric of evaluation." So yeah, continue to be excited about those 13 wins from last year if it floats your boat. 

And the year before lost a record number of close games, with 8 of our 9 losses by one score. 2022 was a regression to the mean (and beyond) in terms of close games.

I've said it before but that was essentially the same team--a 10-11 win team who lost a couple more than they should have, then the next year, won a couple more than they should have. But Cousins playing less risk averse and KOC coaching better situational football also played a part. 

Same thing will happen this year, as we lose a couple more of those either-way games, because that's just how the NFL works. But I also think we'll be less vulnerable to the blowout. 

Week 2 at Philly will be a great assessment on where we are as a team. Should be healthy, will have a game under our belts already, and we are going into the overwhelming conference favorites house where we got our dicks knocked in the dirt last season. We keep that competitive, I'll be a little more excited about our prospects 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

You don't have to mention him. Your agenda comes through loud and clear. 

Its really just bitch time. Straight up. I thought Supa had more value but he's just a 'me right' kind of fan. Whatever.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

You don't have to mention him. Your agenda comes through loud and clear. 

Its really just bitch time. Straight up. I thought Supa had more value but he's just a 'me right' kind of fan. Whatever.

Again, because I don't see this as a 12 win team that makes me a "me right" fan? I hope I'm wrong, but this is me being objective on the roster deficiencies I think we have on this team. I'd love nothing more then the "blowing sunshine out their asses" heard on this message board to be right. Guess we'll find out soon 

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

You don't have to mention him. Your agenda comes through loud and clear. 

Its really just bitch time. Straight up. I thought Supa had more value but he's just a 'me right' kind of fan. Whatever.

Again, because I don't see this as a 12 win team that makes me a "me right" fan? I hope I'm wrong, but this is me being objective on the roster deficiencies I think we have on this team. I'd love nothing more then the "blowing sunshine out their asses" heard on this message board to be right. Guess we'll find out soon 

Nobody thinks this is a 12 win team.  Consensus on the board is pretty much a 8 to 10 win team...and this with high hopes.  And the derogatory remarks you always throw out their does nothing but prove what posters claim regarding your holier-than-thou attitude.  An example is when you told another poster to "Fuck Off" was totally unnecessary. 

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

You don't have to mention him. Your agenda comes through loud and clear. 

Its really just bitch time. Straight up. I thought Supa had more value but he's just a 'me right' kind of fan. Whatever.

Again, because I don't see this as a 12 win team that makes me a "me right" fan? I hope I'm wrong, but this is me being objective on the roster deficiencies I think we have on this team. I'd love nothing more then the "blowing sunshine out their asses" heard on this message board to be right. Guess we'll find out soon 

I never said I saw it that way either, did you see my thread that said 9 wins? I'm just let it happen first, then bitch. I've never been Pollyanna or Blue Sky. Go ahead, ask anyone in this community, I've been here FOREVER. I have more posts here than I should have, but I've been working remotely as a sales executive for 20+ years so I have time to get on the Internet sporadically, which means in a 2 or 3 day period I can be a prolific poster and then disappear for 2 weeks. I've been a hardcore critic when called for. I was here long before this board, all the way back to Viking Underground and beyond. It doesn't make me better or worse, I'm just saying I'm not a homer. Seriously, ask....does anyone here think I've been a homer? I've got over 13,000 posts....it would be there in the history. Go ahead and find the sunshine posts....please do. Otherwise, just shut the f_ck up. I'm as critical a fan as you'll find that is hardcore and long time. 

When its time to be critical, I'm there. Its August 27th. 

[Guest]

@ArizonaViking said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

@supafreak84 said:

@bigbone62 said:

He @supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:
I remember last year at this time, some board members had angst about not winning any of the preseason games and were starting to shit on the regime already, lol. 13 wins later.....still shitting on the new regime!  :p

Oh wow, it's the 13 win argument again....yawn

Yeah, last year sucked. 

Yes Spielman did a great job assembling that roster 

Right, and had last year's team stunk Im sure you would have been the first to point out Rick was at fault. 

He was fired because the team underperformed two seasons in a row, but as we saw last year it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent as we won those 13 games (like Maroon and some others like to beat their chests about) with 98% of Spielmans players..

So that's a yes or no? Had last year's team stunk you would have blamed the roster Rick built and we wouldn't have been subjected to your incesent beating of the dead horse that is your unhealthy obsession with KAM.

Christ, I'm an internal pessimist to the max, but you take it to a whole different level. The same people post on this board day in and day out. So you constantly posting the same shit but worded differently isn't reaching anyone who doesn't already know your stance. 

Of course I would have, but that's not what happened. I criticized Rick when it was deserved. I thought never supplying the QB room with high upside or developmental backups was a huge mistake. His philosophy of acquiring late round picks to "beat other teams to the punch" with UDFA was ridiculous and rarely fruitful. He drafted players I was never a fan of that turned into busts, like Mike Hughes and Teddy Bridgewater. But he did a lot of good, brought in a lot of talent, and this team won a lot of games during his tenure. 

And I've never mentioned KAM once in this entire thread. Funny though that making an honest team assessment turns into "beating a dead horse about an unhealthy obsession with KAM" lol. Okkkk...

You don't have to mention him. Your agenda comes through loud and clear. 

Its really just bitch time. Straight up. I thought Supa had more value but he's just a 'me right' kind of fan. Whatever.

Again, because I don't see this as a 12 win team that makes me a "me right" fan? I hope I'm wrong, but this is me being objective on the roster deficiencies I think we have on this team. I'd love nothing more then the "blowing sunshine out their asses" heard on this message board to be right. Guess we'll find out soon 

Nobody thinks this is a 12 win team.  Consensus on the board is pretty much a 8 to 10 win team...and this with high hopes.  And the derogatory remarks you always throw out their does nothing but prove what posters claim regarding your holier-than-though attitude.  An example is when you told another poster to "Fuck Off" was totally unnecessary. 

Yes, you're right. Board consensus seems to believe this is a just-above-500 team. I think it's a little better than that. It's hard to predict because we have no clue what the defense is going to do. There's a chance it doesn't improve at all, in which case 500 ball is probably not far off. There's also a chance it improves dramatically. So the range of outcomes is very wide. 

But I think some are discounting just how good this offense should be in year two, TJH, Addison, OL continuity, etc.