Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I just find it funny we can give a blocking, backup TE who has never surpassed 150 yards receiving in a season, a $21 million dollar contract but cant find the money to honor Cooks contract that we gave him and now have to cut or trade him. The guy is a top 5 RB in this league and has been. 27 years old. This offense takes a step back if he is gone. Mattison doesn't come close to the explosiveness as a runner or receiver. Unless that shoulder is completely red flagged, I just don't see how losing Dalvin Cook makes us a better football team.
Losing Dalvin doesn't make us better in '23, but it puts us in a better financial position going forward, which might actually make us a better team in '24 and beyond. Teams typically make decisions with an eye focused two, three years down the road.
At any rate, I'm a little surprised a "tear it up by the roots" guy is complaining about cutting salary.
And I'm a little surprised to hear a "we won 13 games last year so let's keep Cousins and go all in" guy who is okay losing our best running back and a difference maker on offense. Are we all in or are we not for this upcoming season? If we are, then it doesn't make much sense getting rid of Dalvin Cook.
He's a running back. That's the difference. I was not in favor of trading Z (not that we had a choice). I would not be in favor of trading Hunter.
Dalvin is one of the best players at a position that just doesn't have the impact it used to. In a league where Rhamondre Stevenson, Tony Pollard and Dameon Pierce were 4th rounders and Isaiah Pacheco and Austin Ekeler were undrafted, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay Dalvin the $14M it would take to keep him in '23. He also looked a little sluggish to me last year.
I'm also a pretty big fan of Ty Chandler and DeWayne McBride. I think it's very possible our running game actually improves this year.
You have a lot more confidence in these other guys in the stable then I do then. I think they can be good as a group, but we aren't a better offense without Cook and defenses having to worry about Dalvin getting around the corner on a stretch run and going 80 on them. Dalvin is still only 27 and unless the shoulder is completely wrecked, he still should have 3 to 4 years of elite level production. KOC is really trying to turn us into the Rams. 3-4 defense, trading picks for players, throwing the ball all over the field, and running back by committee. I just don't get going all in on the season, paying a blocking TE $21 million dollars, then oops....don't have money to pay the star running back the contract that we signed him to.
You keep hitting on Oliver. His cap numbers are:
'23 $2.5M'24 $6M'25 $9.5M with a dead cap of $1.5M if cut post June 1
If he doesn't turn into a vital part of the offense he's not getting paid in '25. So While $21M is his TOTAL cap number.
Cook's is
'23 $14m'24 $15m'25 $14m
We save $3m dead money to wait to trade Cook post June 1.
yes Dalvin was a home run hitter a couple times last year, but didnt he also lead the league in runs for 0 or negative yards? Those types of runs lead to 3 and outs pretty regular and that leaves an already challenged D in a bad spot once again. He has been a lot of fun to watch at times, but his dancing at the LOS looking for the home run wasnt worth the few big runs he had IMO, if its one or the other... gimme LeRoy Hoard. And the fumbling, its not that he fumbles, its seems to be when he does it, there is no good time for a turnover, but some of his fumbles were absolute WTFs in terms of not having the ball protected... Pop Warner type shit.
He was a damn good RB in terms of his contribution to the passing game, a good receiver and an above average and eager blocker, I think I will miss him most for that aspect of his game.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I just find it funny we can give a blocking, backup TE who has never surpassed 150 yards receiving in a season, a $21 million dollar contract but cant find the money to honor Cooks contract that we gave him and now have to cut or trade him. The guy is a top 5 RB in this league and has been. 27 years old. This offense takes a step back if he is gone. Mattison doesn't come close to the explosiveness as a runner or receiver. Unless that shoulder is completely red flagged, I just don't see how losing Dalvin Cook makes us a better football team.
Losing Dalvin doesn't make us better in '23, but it puts us in a better financial position going forward, which might actually make us a better team in '24 and beyond. Teams typically make decisions with an eye focused two, three years down the road.
At any rate, I'm a little surprised a "tear it up by the roots" guy is complaining about cutting salary.
And I'm a little surprised to hear a "we won 13 games last year so let's keep Cousins and go all in" guy who is okay losing our best running back and a difference maker on offense. Are we all in or are we not for this upcoming season? If we are, then it doesn't make much sense getting rid of Dalvin Cook.
He's a running back. That's the difference. I was not in favor of trading Z (not that we had a choice). I would not be in favor of trading Hunter.
Dalvin is one of the best players at a position that just doesn't have the impact it used to. In a league where Rhamondre Stevenson, Tony Pollard and Dameon Pierce were 4th rounders and Isaiah Pacheco and Austin Ekeler were undrafted, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay Dalvin the $14M it would take to keep him in '23. He also looked a little sluggish to me last year.
I'm also a pretty big fan of Ty Chandler and DeWayne McBride. I think it's very possible our running game actually improves this year.
You have a lot more confidence in these other guys in the stable then I do then. I think they can be good as a group, but we aren't a better offense without Cook and defenses having to worry about Dalvin getting around the corner on a stretch run and going 80 on them. Dalvin is still only 27 and unless the shoulder is completely wrecked, he still should have 3 to 4 years of elite level production. KOC is really trying to turn us into the Rams. 3-4 defense, trading picks for players, throwing the ball all over the field, and running back by committee. I just don't get going all in on the season, paying a blocking TE $21 million dollars, then oops....don't have money to pay the star running back the contract that we signed him to.
You keep hitting on Oliver. His cap numbers are:
'23 $2.5M'24 $6M'25 $9.5M with a dead cap of $1.5M if cut post June 1
If he doesn't turn into a vital part of the offense he's not getting paid in '25. So While $21M is his TOTAL cap number.
Cook's is
'23 $14m'24 $15m'25 $14m
We save $3m dead money to wait to trade Cook post June 1.
It's the money allocation and it just doesn't make sense to sign some of the players we've signed at the expense of losing Dalvin Cook. Like I said, if the shoulder is toast and going to hinder the rest of his career, then fine move on. Otherwise if we are trying to win the Super Bowl this upcoming season we are not a better team with Alexander Mattison in the backfield as Cooks replacement.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
yes Dalvin was a home run hitter a couple times last year, but didnt he also lead the league in runs for 0 or negative yards? Those types of runs lead to 3 and outs pretty regular and that leaves an already challenged D in a bad spot once again. He has been a lot of fun to watch at times, but his dancing at the LOS looking for the home run wasnt worth the few big runs he had IMO, if its one or the other... gimme LeRoy Hoard. And the fumbling, its not that he fumbles, its seems to be when he does it, there is no good time for a turnover, but some of his fumbles were absolute WTFs in terms of not having the ball protected... Pop Warner type shit.
He was a damn good RB in terms of his contribution to the passing game, a good receiver and an above average and eager blocker, I think I will miss him most for that aspect of his game.
I believe his shoulder was a big issue with the fumbling. If he got hit wrong, he just let go and that was his surgery this off-season, right.
As to the run game, not defending Dalvin here, but our offense had no commitment to it. KOC needs to focus on it and not abandon it after a poor run. I think Dalvin was underused big time.
That said, I am fine moving on from him. His salary and the fact his production has dipped for whatever reason.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
yes Dalvin was a home run hitter a couple times last year, but didnt he also lead the league in runs for 0 or negative yards? Those types of runs lead to 3 and outs pretty regular and that leaves an already challenged D in a bad spot once again. He has been a lot of fun to watch at times, but his dancing at the LOS looking for the home run wasnt worth the few big runs he had IMO, if its one or the other... gimme LeRoy Hoard. And the fumbling, its not that he fumbles, its seems to be when he does it, there is no good time for a turnover, but some of his fumbles were absolute WTFs in terms of not having the ball protected... Pop Warner type shit.
He was a damn good RB in terms of his contribution to the passing game, a good receiver and an above average and eager blocker, I think I will miss him most for that aspect of his game.
I believe his shoulder was a big issue with the fumbling. If he got hit wrong, he just let go and that was his surgery this off-season, right.
As to the run game, not defending Dalvin here, but our offense had no commitment to it. KOC needs to focus on it and not abandon it after a poor run. I think Dalvin was underused big time.
That said, I am fine moving on from him. His salary and the fact his production has dipped for whatever reason.
if that was the case then he shouldnt have been carrying the ball in that arm, or shouldnt have been out there to begin with. I think its a possibility that was the cause, or a convenient excuse. this wasnt a 1 year thing and if he felt it was an issue it should have been addressed prior to this offseason.
the running game was hard to stay committed to when the RB is not generating positive yards on a regular basis. you can run on 2nd and 7, but 2nd and 10 or worse kind of a different story if you dont want to go 3 and out again and see your challenged D back on the field.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
yes Dalvin was a home run hitter a couple times last year, but didnt he also lead the league in runs for 0 or negative yards? Those types of runs lead to 3 and outs pretty regular and that leaves an already challenged D in a bad spot once again. He has been a lot of fun to watch at times, but his dancing at the LOS looking for the home run wasnt worth the few big runs he had IMO, if its one or the other... gimme LeRoy Hoard. And the fumbling, its not that he fumbles, its seems to be when he does it, there is no good time for a turnover, but some of his fumbles were absolute WTFs in terms of not having the ball protected... Pop Warner type shit.
He was a damn good RB in terms of his contribution to the passing game, a good receiver and an above average and eager blocker, I think I will miss him most for that aspect of his game.
I believe his shoulder was a big issue with the fumbling. If he got hit wrong, he just let go and that was his surgery this off-season, right.
As to the run game, not defending Dalvin here, but our offense had no commitment to it. KOC needs to focus on it and not abandon it after a poor run. I think Dalvin was underused big time.
That said, I am fine moving on from him. His salary and the fact his production has dipped for whatever reason.
Exactly this. I'm clueless as to why this is even controversial.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
yes Dalvin was a home run hitter a couple times last year, but didnt he also lead the league in runs for 0 or negative yards? Those types of runs lead to 3 and outs pretty regular and that leaves an already challenged D in a bad spot once again. He has been a lot of fun to watch at times, but his dancing at the LOS looking for the home run wasnt worth the few big runs he had IMO, if its one or the other... gimme LeRoy Hoard. And the fumbling, its not that he fumbles, its seems to be when he does it, there is no good time for a turnover, but some of his fumbles were absolute WTFs in terms of not having the ball protected... Pop Warner type shit.
He was a damn good RB in terms of his contribution to the passing game, a good receiver and an above average and eager blocker, I think I will miss him most for that aspect of his game.
I believe his shoulder was a big issue with the fumbling. If he got hit wrong, he just let go and that was his surgery this off-season, right.
As to the run game, not defending Dalvin here, but our offense had no commitment to it. KOC needs to focus on it and not abandon it after a poor run. I think Dalvin was underused big time.
That said, I am fine moving on from him. His salary and the fact his production has dipped for whatever reason.
if that was the case then he shouldnt have been carrying the ball in that arm, or shouldnt have been out there to begin with. I think its a possibility that was the cause, or a convenient excuse. this wasnt a 1 year thing and if he felt it was an issue it should have been addressed prior to this offseason.
the running game was hard to stay committed to when the RB is not generating positive yards on a regular basis. you can run on 2nd and 7, but 2nd and 10 or worse kind of a different story if you dont want to go 3 and out again and see your challenged D back on the field.
I only remember 2 significant fumbles from Dalvin. I think one was when his knee got blown out and last year when he got hit on the shoulder.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I just find it funny we can give a blocking, backup TE who has never surpassed 150 yards receiving in a season, a $21 million dollar contract but cant find the money to honor Cooks contract that we gave him and now have to cut or trade him. The guy is a top 5 RB in this league and has been. 27 years old. This offense takes a step back if he is gone. Mattison doesn't come close to the explosiveness as a runner or receiver. Unless that shoulder is completely red flagged, I just don't see how losing Dalvin Cook makes us a better football team.
Losing Dalvin doesn't make us better in '23, but it puts us in a better financial position going forward, which might actually make us a better team in '24 and beyond. Teams typically make decisions with an eye focused two, three years down the road.
At any rate, I'm a little surprised a "tear it up by the roots" guy is complaining about cutting salary.
And I'm a little surprised to hear a "we won 13 games last year so let's keep Cousins and go all in" guy who is okay losing our best running back and a difference maker on offense. Are we all in or are we not for this upcoming season? If we are, then it doesn't make much sense getting rid of Dalvin Cook.
He's a running back. That's the difference. I was not in favor of trading Z (not that we had a choice). I would not be in favor of trading Hunter.
Dalvin is one of the best players at a position that just doesn't have the impact it used to. In a league where Rhamondre Stevenson, Tony Pollard and Dameon Pierce were 4th rounders and Isaiah Pacheco and Austin Ekeler were undrafted, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay Dalvin the $14M it would take to keep him in '23. He also looked a little sluggish to me last year.
I'm also a pretty big fan of Ty Chandler and DeWayne McBride. I think it's very possible our running game actually improves this year.
You have a lot more confidence in these other guys in the stable then I do then. I think they can be good as a group, but we aren't a better offense without Cook and defenses having to worry about Dalvin getting around the corner on a stretch run and going 80 on them. Dalvin is still only 27 and unless the shoulder is completely wrecked, he still should have 3 to 4 years of elite level production. KOC is really trying to turn us into the Rams. 3-4 defense, trading picks for players, throwing the ball all over the field, and running back by committee. I just don't get going all in on the season, paying a blocking TE $21 million dollars, then oops....don't have money to pay the star running back the contract that we signed him to.
You keep hitting on Oliver. His cap numbers are:
'23 $2.5M'24 $6M'25 $9.5M with a dead cap of $1.5M if cut post June 1
If he doesn't turn into a vital part of the offense he's not getting paid in '25. So While $21M is his TOTAL cap number.
Cook's is
'23 $14m'24 $15m'25 $14m
We save $3m dead money to wait to trade Cook post June 1.
It's the money allocation and it just doesn't make sense to sign some of the players we've signed at the expense of losing Dalvin Cook. Like I said, if the shoulder is toast and going to hinder the rest of his career, then fine move on. Otherwise if we are trying to win the Super Bowl this upcoming season we are not a better team with Alexander Mattison in the backfield as Cooks replacement.
Honestly, at this point, why shouldn’t they buy the pieces they want? Its clear we’re going to fund the offense at the expense of the defense. We don’t need an expensive RB on this team.
There was a great article (can’t recall where) where they talked about what an elite blocking TE in a 2 TE scheme can do. It all led back to Jefferson being able to blow D’s appart because the LB would need to commit to Oliver for fear of being run all over.
It made sense when I read it. Lets see what the Big KOC can do. When it boils down, a couple million for a role player who is elite at what they do is the going rate.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
yes Dalvin was a home run hitter a couple times last year, but didnt he also lead the league in runs for 0 or negative yards? Those types of runs lead to 3 and outs pretty regular and that leaves an already challenged D in a bad spot once again. He has been a lot of fun to watch at times, but his dancing at the LOS looking for the home run wasnt worth the few big runs he had IMO, if its one or the other... gimme LeRoy Hoard. And the fumbling, its not that he fumbles, its seems to be when he does it, there is no good time for a turnover, but some of his fumbles were absolute WTFs in terms of not having the ball protected... Pop Warner type shit.
He was a damn good RB in terms of his contribution to the passing game, a good receiver and an above average and eager blocker, I think I will miss him most for that aspect of his game.
I believe his shoulder was a big issue with the fumbling. If he got hit wrong, he just let go and that was his surgery this off-season, right.
As to the run game, not defending Dalvin here, but our offense had no commitment to it. KOC needs to focus on it and not abandon it after a poor run. I think Dalvin was underused big time.
That said, I am fine moving on from him. His salary and the fact his production has dipped for whatever reason.
Exactly this. I'm clueless as to why this is even controversial.
It dipped because Cousins set a career high in pass attempts last season (by a lot) and KOC was noncommittal on running the football. We were also down in a lot of games (see Indy) and were forced to pass the ball to try to catch up. I don't believe Cook's production had anything to do with him losing a step or a lack of ability. It was about situational football in a very strange season and the coach wanting us to be the Rams and throw the ball all over the field. But alas this seems like a forgone conclusion that he will be gone and we will be going the RBBC route, which doesn't make sense to me if we are serious about making one more run with Kirk Cousins this upcoming season. Be all in or be all out and IMO it's a mistake to get rid of Dalvin Cook if we are in for this season.
His salary isn't in sync with his production. Time to move on. I am thinking the RB's on the roster other than Cook will do just fine in KOC's offense.
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