Quote: @"AGRforever" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
The problem with saying “Kirk and this team are totally capable of winning the Super Bowl!” is that you can say that about 20+ teams before any given season and you’d be correct. And then the season starts and the playoffs start and the Tom Bradys, Aaron Rodgers’, and Pat Mahomes’ of the worlds are the ones who are actually in it, and the middle tier QBs aren’t. This isn’t gospel but by and large it’s been true the past 5-10 years.
Are the supporting casts great? Yep. But the number of “Any Given Sunday!” champions in the past 10 years is 2. Certainly doable, infinitely harder.
I think there’s a better chance of Kirk “leveling up” in the new offense and becoming elite than of him being the same Kirk we’ve seen the past few years and the Vikes winning a Super Bowl. But I’d take either!
Using the only elite logic, if you take the Goat out theres not an active QB with more then 1 win and if I’m counting right Rodgers, Mahomes and Wilson are the only ones to even play in two SBs.
Rodgers has only been to one SB actually/thankfully. But while I think you're disagreeing with me, you're also kind of proving my point. It's really hard to win a SB, even with the best QBs. Doing it without one is even harder. So at least attempting to find one makes sense, doesn't it? It's like yes anyone can find an engagement ring on the beach, but wouldn't you rather be equipped a metal detector?
To elaborate on my final paragraph above, I'd put the odds of Kirk leveling up and becoming elite under the new regime around 25%. He's been in the league a long time and probably is who he is. But if he does level up and become that top 5-7 QB which I think is possible, the Vikings have a better chance of winning it all with that than if he remains a middle-of-the-pack or slightly better QB (20% chance to win) and every single other thing around him lines up and we go all the way. But there's more than one way to skin a cat, I just hope the Vikings skin one in my lifetime.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"minny65" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
I have always been a Cousins believer and I think he's going to excel in KOC's offense.
If being a Cousins believer means you acknowledge his flaws but think he's among the 15 or so QBs in the NFL capable of winning a Super Bowl, then I'm a believer too.
No doubt KC is a Top 15 QB especially stat wise.
But I have see enough to disagree with the second part about being capable of winning a SB.
Just my opinion as you know 
But isn't the Superbowl just one game? I mean if you believe a guy is a good QB, why can't he win one game? Of course Cousins can. Hell, Matt Stafford just did it and he hadn't even been in the same zip code before that. I'm not trying to bag on you at all, 65, just saying if you do think Cousins is a pretty good QB then he's capable of winning a Superbowl. If you don't think he's a good QB, then that's a different story.
while the SB is just one game, to win one you have to win a bunch of games to get into the playoffs, and then you cant lose any of your next 3 or 4 games in a row. So while yes the SB technically is just one game, I think the better way to put it would be "is he good enough to win the playoffs" which makes it much hard to think he has what it takes to rattle off 4 consecutive wins against top tier competition... then I dont think its very likely unless the rest of the supporting cast really carries the team. KC is a good, not great QB, good enough to be the winning QB for those 4 games with the right team around him, but not great enough without much help it unless the planets are aligned.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"minny65" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
I have always been a Cousins believer and I think he's going to excel in KOC's offense.
If being a Cousins believer means you acknowledge his flaws but think he's among the 15 or so QBs in the NFL capable of winning a Super Bowl, then I'm a believer too.
No doubt KC is a Top 15 QB especially stat wise.
But I have see enough to disagree with the second part about being capable of winning a SB.
Just my opinion as you know
But isn't the Superbowl just one game? I mean if you believe a guy is a good QB, why can't he win one game? Of course Cousins can. Hell, Matt Stafford just did it and he hadn't even been in the same zip code before that. I'm not trying to bag on you at all, 65, just saying if you do think Cousins is a pretty good QB then he's capable of winning a Superbowl. If you don't think he's a good QB, then that's a different story.
while the SB is just one game, to win one you have to win a bunch of games to get into the playoffs, and then you cant lose any of your next 3 or 4 games in a row. So while yes the SB technically is just one game, I think the better way to put it would be "is he good enough to win the playoffs" which makes it much hard to think he has what it takes to rattle off 4 consecutive wins against top tier competition... then I dont think its very likely unless the rest of the supporting cast really carries the team. KC is a good, not great QB, good enough to be the winning QB for those 4 games with the right team around him, but not great enough without much help it unless the planets are aligned.
Agreed but like I said above and like many Vikings fans are hoping, I do think there is a *chance* that KC could become truly elite under the new coaches, if even only for a few seasons. It might be pipedream, but I legitimatey think it’s possible. The weapons around him are there. The line should be better than it’s been in a while. Maybe the stars align.
Quote: @"pattersaur" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
@"minny65" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"1VikesFan" said:
I have always been a Cousins believer and I think he's going to excel in KOC's offense.
If being a Cousins believer means you acknowledge his flaws but think he's among the 15 or so QBs in the NFL capable of winning a Super Bowl, then I'm a believer too.
No doubt KC is a Top 15 QB especially stat wise.
But I have see enough to disagree with the second part about being capable of winning a SB.
Just my opinion as you know
But isn't the Superbowl just one game? I mean if you believe a guy is a good QB, why can't he win one game? Of course Cousins can. Hell, Matt Stafford just did it and he hadn't even been in the same zip code before that. I'm not trying to bag on you at all, 65, just saying if you do think Cousins is a pretty good QB then he's capable of winning a Superbowl. If you don't think he's a good QB, then that's a different story.
while the SB is just one game, to win one you have to win a bunch of games to get into the playoffs, and then you cant lose any of your next 3 or 4 games in a row. So while yes the SB technically is just one game, I think the better way to put it would be "is he good enough to win the playoffs" which makes it much hard to think he has what it takes to rattle off 4 consecutive wins against top tier competition... then I dont think its very likely unless the rest of the supporting cast really carries the team. KC is a good, not great QB, good enough to be the winning QB for those 4 games with the right team around him, but not great enough without much help it unless the planets are aligned.
Agreed but like I said above and like many Vikings fans are hoping, I do think there is a *chance* that KC could become truly elite under the new coaches, if even only for a few seasons. It might be pipedream, but I legitimatey think it’s possible. The weapons around him are there. The line should be better than it’s been in a while. Maybe the stars align.
I've said it since his days in DC, he doesn't have the poise or pocket presence to be that guy. Every June I hope that I'm the guy saying enough already for those serving up the crow, but 8 have never felt that Kirk's contract demands allowed for THIS team to really build around him.
Some like to talk about other teams that over pay for marginal QBs and have success , but the difference is they have fucking studs on D like Donald, or they have difference makers on rookie or prove it deals that allows them to over pay for fringe QB play.
Our team has been to good at adding players that eat up contact dollars without really being able to change a game. Players that are great, but at the wrong positions to not be game planned out of the decision, or can't stay healthy enough to make a full season impact while carrying a full season cap impact.
Quote: @"pattersaur" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
The problem with saying “Kirk and this team are totally capable of winning the Super Bowl!” is that you can say that about 20+ teams before any given season and you’d be correct. And then the season starts and the playoffs start and the Tom Bradys, Aaron Rodgers’, and Pat Mahomes’ of the worlds are the ones who are actually in it, and the middle tier QBs aren’t. This isn’t gospel but by and large it’s been true the past 5-10 years.
Are the supporting casts great? Yep. But the number of “Any Given Sunday!” champions in the past 10 years is 2. Certainly doable, infinitely harder.
I think there’s a better chance of Kirk “leveling up” in the new offense and becoming elite than of him being the same Kirk we’ve seen the past few years and the Vikes winning a Super Bowl. But I’d take either!
Using the only elite logic, if you take the Goat out theres not an active QB with more then 1 win and if I’m counting right Rodgers, Mahomes and Wilson are the only ones to even play in two SBs.
Rodgers has only been to one SB actually/thankfully. But while I think you're disagreeing with me, you're also kind of proving my point. It's really hard to win a SB, even with the best QBs. Doing it without one is even harder. So at least attempting to find one makes sense, doesn't it? It's like yes anyone can find an engagement ring on the beach, but wouldn't you rather be equipped a metal detector?
To elaborate on my final paragraph above, I'd put the odds of Kirk leveling up and becoming elite under the new regime around 25%. He's been in the league a long time and probably is who he is. But if he does level up and become that top 5-7 QB which I think is possible, the Vikings have a better chance of winning it all with that than if he remains a middle-of-the-pack or slightly better QB (20% chance to win) and every single other thing around him lines up and we go all the way. But there's more than one way to skin a cat, I just hope the Vikings skin one in my lifetime.
Agreeing mostly. Was just interesting that even with all the tallent at QB no active QB besides the goat has +1
Quote: @"AGRforever" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"pattersaur" said:
The problem with saying “Kirk and this team are totally capable of winning the Super Bowl!” is that you can say that about 20+ teams before any given season and you’d be correct. And then the season starts and the playoffs start and the Tom Bradys, Aaron Rodgers’, and Pat Mahomes’ of the worlds are the ones who are actually in it, and the middle tier QBs aren’t. This isn’t gospel but by and large it’s been true the past 5-10 years.
Are the supporting casts great? Yep. But the number of “Any Given Sunday!” champions in the past 10 years is 2. Certainly doable, infinitely harder.
I think there’s a better chance of Kirk “leveling up” in the new offense and becoming elite than of him being the same Kirk we’ve seen the past few years and the Vikes winning a Super Bowl. But I’d take either!
Using the only elite logic, if you take the Goat out theres not an active QB with more then 1 win and if I’m counting right Rodgers, Mahomes and Wilson are the only ones to even play in two SBs.
Rodgers has only been to one SB actually/thankfully. But while I think you're disagreeing with me, you're also kind of proving my point. It's really hard to win a SB, even with the best QBs. Doing it without one is even harder. So at least attempting to find one makes sense, doesn't it? It's like yes anyone can find an engagement ring on the beach, but wouldn't you rather be equipped a metal detector?
To elaborate on my final paragraph above, I'd put the odds of Kirk leveling up and becoming elite under the new regime around 25%. He's been in the league a long time and probably is who he is. But if he does level up and become that top 5-7 QB which I think is possible, the Vikings have a better chance of winning it all with that than if he remains a middle-of-the-pack or slightly better QB (20% chance to win) and every single other thing around him lines up and we go all the way. But there's more than one way to skin a cat, I just hope the Vikings skin one in my lifetime.
Agreeing mostly. Was just interesting that even with all the tallent at QB no active QB besides the goat has +1
The GOAT wants to win SB's and has sacrificed through contracting to benefit the team. All the while winning SB's on CAP friendly deals that allow the team to surround. He eventually always gets his money but he has been willing to work with owners/teams that work with him. Playing and winning SB's is the result of why he is the GOAT but he certainly has been willing to take the contract risk 's to get "HIS" teams to the Dance. Under rated reason he is the Goat.
Tom Brady CAP hit for 2022 - 17th among starting QB's at 12 million
For 2022 the SB QB's from last year: Stafford's is $13.5 and Rookie deal Burrows is at 10 million.
Essentially, Brady plays on a rookie deals CAP wise.
2022 Top QB's CAP:
Tannehill - 39
Mahomes - 36
Cousins - 32
Goff - 31
Rodgers - 29
Wentz - 28
Next season Cousin's is a 36 million CAP hit and a 49 million dead cap hit. No other QB has been like Tom Brady and Kirk is typical of getting every penny you can while you can and the Vikings have been more than agreeable to that and keep kicking the dead cap can down the road.
I wanted to bite that bitter CAP pill on Kirk last year with the new regime but that didn't happen so it will be another offseason about Kirk for the 5th season in a row - Top stats except for wins.
Guys....Gisele Bündchen's net worth is $400 million....they've been married 13 years.....you think the dude has some latitude with 'sacrificing' his contract to help his team's cap? I just don't get the thinking on this as how it should relate to Kirk Cousins.
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
Guys....Gisele Bündchen's net worth is $400 million....they've been married 13 years.....you think the dude has some latitude with 'sacrificing' his contract to help his team's cap? I just don't get the thinking on this as how it should relate to Kirk Cousins.
I generally agree that players should get what they can, so I'm not going to vilify Kirk for doing exactly that, but he's made $230M during his career already. A lot of that from the Vikings. His current fully guaranteed deal will take him over $300M. So by Gisele math he could be taking a discount in 3-4 years right? A guy can dream.
Yea, there a lot of very wealthy people who will not make the sacrifices. In this case sports and to win as a team.
If Erin Rodgers was married to Gisele/or Cooper Anderson do you think he would have sacrificed anything? I don't.
Same goes for mini-van Kirk, do you see him sacrificing $$$ for the betterment of the team, I don't.
I was not going to single anyone out because I think om Brady is an exception for doing this essentially his whole career. Maybe a QB who is very late in his career will sacrifice but not in their prime. Again, my opinion. Maybe in about 4 or 5 more years Kirk will give a Brady discount .
Also, Stafford pulled a Brady for the Rams but that was to leave Detroit so not really a sacrifice
Stafford's CAP hit this year is about 13 million almost three times less then Kirk's
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