Quote: @minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
Stafford
2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB
2022 - 23 million Cap hit
Total: 44
Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76
But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2.
We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams 
Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM
OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45. I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.
But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
Stafford
2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB
2022 - 23 million Cap hit
Total: 44
Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76
But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2.
We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams
Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM
OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45. I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.
But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen
Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB. Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million. Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million? Maybe if we make it for 10 years Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023. Those are the 3 options. But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
Stafford
2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB
2022 - 23 million Cap hit
Total: 44
Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76
But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2.
We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams
Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM
OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45. I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.
But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen
Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB. Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million. Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million? Maybe if we make it for 10 years Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023. Those are the 3 options. But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.
Sure, but I dont consider QB wins as a stat. Maybe itd be different if Kirk had Aaron Donald, Von Miller, and Jalen Ramsey on defense. He has JJ but Stafford has Kupp and OBJ as receivers along with a much better OL. Why am I bringing this all up? Because all of those players are on a team paying $45MM for a starting QB yet will play in the super bowl.
I think Kirks extension would be between $30-$35MM next year which is about market value for what he does. The last two years are way more on Zimmer than they are on Kirk, unless you think QB wins are a stat
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
Stafford
2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB
2022 - 23 million Cap hit
Total: 44
Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76
But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2.
We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams
Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM
OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45. I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.
But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen
Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB. Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million. Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million? Maybe if we make it for 10 years Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023. Those are the 3 options. But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.
Sure, but I dont consider QB wins as a stat. Maybe itd be different if Kirk had Aaron Donald, Von Miller, and Jalen Ramsey on defense. He has JJ but Stafford has Kupp and OBJ as receivers along with a much better OL. Why am I bringing this all up? Because all of those players are on a team paying $45MM for a starting QB yet will play in the super bowl.
I think Kirks extension would be between $30-$35MM next year which is about market value for what he does. The last two years are way more on Zimmer than they are on Kirk, unless you think QB wins are a stat
Yea and that is why my original post said that maybe if we could get Kirk to a more manageable salary we could sign 3 superstars becuase it is what Stafford needed and Cousins would need. We are going in circles but I think we are on the same page although I lean towards looking into Kirk's trade value but It really comes down to Kwesi/O'Connell so we will see what they think of Kirk. Also, when I mention wins, I also say the team or led the team to a 8-9 season. I don't go by just the QB either from season to season but over a period of time like 4 years It would be nice to have a 100 million plus QB "help" produce a few winning seasons for a return on your investment. That $$$ investment could be used other where and I don't think one person would say that Kirk has been a very good ROI, do you?
I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ minny65 said:
Stafford
2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB
2022 - 23 million Cap hit
Total: 44
Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76
But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2.
We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams
Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM
OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45. I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.
But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen
Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB. Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million. Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million? Maybe if we make it for 10 years Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023. Those are the 3 options. But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.
Sure, but I dont consider QB wins as a stat. Maybe itd be different if Kirk had Aaron Donald, Von Miller, and Jalen Ramsey on defense. He has JJ but Stafford has Kupp and OBJ as receivers along with a much better OL. Why am I bringing this all up? Because all of those players are on a team paying $45MM for a starting QB yet will play in the super bowl.
I think Kirks extension would be between $30-$35MM next year which is about market value for what he does. The last two years are way more on Zimmer than they are on Kirk, unless you think QB wins are a stat
Yea and that is why my original post said that maybe if we could get Kirk to a more manageable salary we could sign 3 superstars becuase it is what Stafford needed and Cousins would need. We are going in circles but I think we are on the same page although I lean towards looking into Kirk's trade value but It really comes down to Kwesi/O'Connell so we will see what they think of Kirk. Also, when I mention wins, I also say the team or led the team to a 8-9 season. I don't go by just the QB either from season to season but over a period of time like 4 years It would be nice to have a 100 million plus QB "help" produce a few winning seasons for a return on your investment. That $$$ investment could be used other where and I don't think one person would say that Kirk has been a very good ROI, do you?
I much more agree with you now. A lot of posters here are ridiculous when it comes to Cousins and his contract. Literally every metric says hes been paid his value, except this year where he exceeded it. Vikes issue the last two years has been so beyond Kirk that it isnt worth mentioning. His savings will be put towards better players, yes, but Vikes also need luck when it comes to the other high wage guys not getting hurt again (Hunter, Thielen, Kendricks, Pierce, Etc). Thatll make a bigger impact
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b.
If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season?
I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b.
If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season?
I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term
Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense.
Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower.
If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b.
If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season?
I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term
Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense.
Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower.
If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance.
Yea, I also think Mayfield has some darn good upside. His salary is 19 million for 2022 and we could also redo/extend that while we see how he further develops and also look at the next few drafts for another prospect at QB all the while seeing what Mond offers - if anything. That would free up a ton of money and then we would get draft picks from the Browns as well. I would be happy with their high 2nd rounder next year (pick #44) and then maybe the 3rd round comp pick (#102) they got for us signing Kwesi. Could we get more?
I just don't really believe that even with a reworked Kirk contract that we have enough to make us a very good playoff team. I think we need to start a rebuild which requires draft picks, Cap Relief and a different QB - IMO. Of course, if the new regime sticks with Kirk I will support the decision, but I am ready for a new approach.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b.
If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season?
I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term
Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense.
Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower.
If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance.
Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?
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