Personally I think RS needs to go along with Zim. Why would we trust Rick to pick the next coach after being so "giddy" after the Zim hire? The Wilfs have given Rick and Zim pretty much everything they wanted and neither could bring the winning culture back to the Vikings. Sure, there have been a couple promising seasons over the last 8 years, but that's not what we were hoping for after year 2 of Zim.
I don't trust RS picking a new coach any more than I would having him pick QBs, CBs, OL, adding free agents or in season stupid trades.
Zygi needs to raise the bar on getting talent and coaching.
I say keep RS. I havent had a problem with his drafts. I think he gets value out of his picks. He’s had some turds but each and every GM/team does. The question is more about whether he’s hitting on more then average.
Theres probably better….but there is significantly worse.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
I say keep RS. I havent had a problem with his drafts. I think he gets value out of his picks. He’s had some turds but each and every GM/team does. The question is more about whether he’s hitting on more then average.
Theres probably better….but there is significantly worse.
I will say the two things that makes me think about replacing RS are (1) the Harrison Smith contract and (2) the Herndon trade.
I think there is a good chance Zimmer gets fired Friday, if the Steelers win and the Vikes pee down their leg again.
As to the talent question, there are a lot of mediocre and less than average players on this team. Should the Wilfs fire Zimmer and retain Spielman, there will be no improvement.
Time for a new vision for what a team needs to do to win a championship. The formula and concept for this coach and the last 2 also are not getting it done.
Is it time to clean house or stay in this endless hell of perpetual mediocrity.
im generaly positive on Speilman, but do believe should move on to new GM if we do make a coaching change. clean sweep.
8 years or so of this combo werent bad if compared to Tice and Frazier years. but we need to want better than that.
we have enough talent and youth here to be attractive to top candidates. trade for Shannahan since we’re most likely going to have Cousins for the forseeable future.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ AGRforever said:
I say keep RS. I havent had a problem with his drafts. I think he gets value out of his picks. He’s had some turds but each and every GM/team does. The question is more about whether he’s hitting on more then average.
Theres probably better….but there is significantly worse.
I will say the two things that makes me think about replacing RS are (1) the Harrison Smith contract and (2) the Herndon trade.
I think Spielman needs to go as well. He has drafted pretty well most years, but that's only one part of being a GM. The rest are trades, FA, and overall roster construction.
And let's face it, Zimmer and Spielman seemed to be in lock step early on... they made some savvy FA signings, had some good draft picks, and the team had an identity. It was a power running, play-action team with a strong defense. We can blame Zimmer for the defense falling apart, but we should all be looking at Spielman too. He went from Everson, Robison, and Hunter at DE to Hunter and... he has done a terrible job of finding pass rushers since Hunter to replace departing players in Robison and Griffen. We also went from Rhodes, Waynes, Munnerlyn, and Newman to Dantzler, Peterson, Alexander, and Breeland. Big drop off at DE and CB... which a good pass rush and CBs who can cover are two requirements of Zimmer's scheme.
Then you add in the panic trades for Bradford, Herndon, Yannick, etc. that didn't pan out and his troubles finding a solid group of OL to protect his expensive QB and his resume the past couple years is as bad as Zimmer's track record. They go hand in hand...
I'm ready to fire Zimmer now (still love the guy, but it's time for a change) but I think a new GM to go with your next coach would be good. Start fresh... reach out to some HC candidates and figure out what personnel guys they have worked well in the past. You need your GM and coach to be in lock step or you get what we've seen from the Vikings the past couple years... a young roster with older vets that doesn't have any blue chip talent at key positions.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ AGRforever said:
I say keep RS. I havent had a problem with his drafts. I think he gets value out of his picks. He’s had some turds but each and every GM/team does. The question is more about whether he’s hitting on more then average.
Theres probably better….but there is significantly worse.
I will say the two things that makes me think about replacing RS are (1) the Harrison Smith contract and (2) the Herndon trade.
I think Spielman needs to go as well. He has drafted pretty well most years, but that's only one part of being a GM. The rest are trades, FA, and overall roster construction.
And let's face it, Zimmer and Spielman seemed to be in lock step early on... they made some savvy FA signings, had some good draft picks, and the team had an identity. It was a power running, play-action team with a strong defense. We can blame Zimmer for the defense falling apart, but we should all be looking at Spielman too. He went from Everson, Robison, and Hunter at DE to Hunter and... he has done a terrible job of finding pass rushers since Hunter to replace departing players in Robison and Griffen. We also went from Rhodes, Waynes, Munnerlyn, and Newman to Dantzler, Peterson, Alexander, and Breeland. Big drop off at DE and CB... which a good pass rush and CBs who can cover are two requirements of Zimmer's scheme.
Then you add in the panic trades for Bradford, Herndon, Yannick, etc. that didn't pan out and his troubles finding a solid group of OL to protect his expensive QB and his resume the past couple years is as bad as Zimmer's track record. They go hand in hand...
I'm ready to fire Zimmer now (still love the guy, but it's time for a change) but I think a new GM to go with your next coach would be good. Start fresh... reach out to some HC candidates and figure out what personnel guys they have worked well in the past. You need your GM and coach to be in lock step or you get what we've seen from the Vikings the past couple years... a young roster with older vets that doesn't have any blue chip talent at key positions.
I couldn't agree more. In addition I would like to see an OC who can recognize mismatches and game plan and in game adjust to take full advantage of those mismatches. Also would like to see an end to playing the guy with the bigger contract instead of the most talent.
I also like the concept of building the heart of the team with superior offensive and defensive lines as a baseline.
And I would like to see a less conservative and more creative philosophy.
These are all front office and coaching issues.
Typical Vikings ---Fire the guy and start over the year after there was a QB friendly draft---so we'll ponder a over reach of Qb that should be working out that "what am I gonna do now that the football part of my life is over."
Current 10 longest coaching tenures. Stating the obvious, does anything come to mind that all the 6 coaches in front of Zimmer have? I can't find a way to get this stat, but I'd like to know the longest tenure without a super bowl, or until the first super bowl appearance.
- Bill Belichick (New England Patriots): January 27, 2000
- Sean Payton (New Orleans Saints): January 18, 2006
- Mike Tomlin (Pittsburgh Steelers): January 27, 2007
- John Harbaugh (Baltimore Ravens): January 19, 2008
- Pete Carroll (Seattle Seahawks): January 9, 2010
- Andy Reid (Kansas City Chiefs): January 4, 2013
- Mike Zimmer (Minnesota Vikings): January 15, 2014
- Sean McDermott (Buffalo Bills): January 11, 2017
- Sean McVay (Los Angeles Rams): January 12, 2017
- Kyle Shanahan (San Francisco 49ers): February 6, 2017
I read this thread and just wonder why many were agaisnt firing both Zimmer and Spielman two years ago and especially last year?
Whats happening today is not new. It was pretty obvious if we dared to look but we decided to put good money on bad money one more time. Here are some mistakes we could have avoided if we fired them two years ago:
- Ngakoe Trade
- Cousins extention
- Smiths extention
- Lost draft picks 2021 ( mainly a second for Ngakou and 2022 4th fir Herndon)
- Continuous misses on the Oline
- Poor cap situation (mortgaging future years) that resulted in decimated roster with many holes to fill and no depth
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