I'd love to see the team draft a QB in this Draft, I just don't know if it'll happen.
Quote: @"Wetlander" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"Wetlander" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
Cousins is a top third QB. You don't just toss that aside for a roll at the craps table, potentially setting the franchise back years and wasting the primes of players like Cook, Jefferson, Hunter, etc.
Now, do you draft a QB to sit and learn for a year or two? Maybe, but I don't think you do it if an impact player who can help you win now is on the board.
I'm not ragging on you, Maroon... because what you say is logical in theory. But I find it funny that all these issues with Cousins have seem to evaporated because people are just looking at his final stat line and overlooking how he performed against the good teams we played this season.
Except that's not what I'm doing. I'm basing this on what I saw, not final stat lines. I say top third because that's what I think. I have no idea where he ranks in terms of stats. I saw a QB who looked like shit early on against good teams and bad. I saw him play much better as the season wore on against good teams and bad.
And I compare that to what i know the draft is: a complete crapshoot. So to me it comes down to odds. Are we more likely to win a super bowl next year with Cousins and a first round pass rusher or left guard? Or a young QB and none of the above?
I say the former, because that QB, while he might be Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes, it's actually more likely he's Trubisky or Wentz or Rosen or Darnold or Winston or Mariota. The odds just aren't very good.
No, as PF always says, you won't find out unless you try. But what is the cost of finding out? All the QBs listed above were taken top 10. We pick 14th. Unless we invest an enormous amount of draft capital, we won't be getting Lawrence, Wilson or Fields (who scares the hell outta me). I need more time on Lance and the rest give me a Ponderous feel. When we were 1-5 and it looked like we had a chance at a top 5 pick, I was all for it. Now THAT was a slam dunk. Top 5 pick? Cousins looking like crap? Got get a damn QB! But I changed my mind. As I start looking more into the 2nd tier QBs I could change it again.
That's what I'm saying... you changed your mind because he played better in the second half of the season. Isn't that the definition of Cousins career? Plays good for about half the season with some brutal stretches of bad play with a few average performances mixed in?
Isn't that the definition of almost every QB? Outside of maybe 4 or 5? Heck, Aaron Rodgers had a game this year so bad, his rating would've been better if he had spiked the ball into the ground on every snap. That's actually true. Does Cousins have a few more? Yep. But the thing I keep coming back to is that Cousins has ranked near the top of the NFL in rating from a clean pocket two years in a row. I think he was actually #1 last year. What if we protected him better?
That in mind, I do think there is a good argument on your side of this: Vikings' offensive line are zone blockers. Meaning that while they're very athletic and excel in run blocking, they're smaller and don't hold up as well in pass pro, especially against bull rushers. I would think the ideal QB for such a scheme is a more elusive one.
But what the hell do I know? Kyle Shanahan seemed to think that Cousins was perfect for it. I guess because of play action? I don't know, but they also invested a lot in a very similar QB.
I do have one prediction on which I'd be willing to bet an all expenses paid trip to Brainerd: if we do move on from Cousins, we'll miss his accuracy. It's rare.
Just for clarity, Cousins salary is $28M next season, ranking 12th in the league. It’s pretty average at this point and manageable. There are plenty of other areas money is being worse spent on this team.
Quote: @"AGRforever" said:
@"Chuckf" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"Vikergirl" said:
If he gets better protection and if they move forward to a more modern offense. They have to take off the training wheels and let it rip, otherwise they won't progress.
We were 14th in passing and 5th in rushing this year.
We were also 4th in total offense. We were only 16 yards per game behind the top team in Kansas City.
Cousis and the offense didnt screw the pooch this year. If Zimmer is to remain coach he needs to figure out WTF went wrong on defense and fix it. The offense is playing at a playoff caliber level.
Pretty obvious wha what wrong with the defense isn't it? All three starting CBs gone: Waynes, Rhodes, Alexander (yes I consider NB/slot corner a starter) then 3/4ths of starting Defensive line gone: Griffen, Joseph to FA, and Hunter to injury. Then to add insult to injury the big FA signing of Pierce blows up as he opts out due to COVID and his asthma and Barr tears a pectoral muscle in first game of season. Then Kendricks is gone the last 5 games due to injury. Mike Hughes gets hurt early also gone for season and Holton Hill as well. On top of all this yes the Vikings were going with the youth movement transition and COVID hits and no OTAs, truncated training camps and NO PRESEASON games. That's a killer for a team planning on going with a lot of young players and rookies on defense.
The original question/answer is obvious, the fix it question is the harder one. Do our baby DB's get better next year? Do you move on from Barr and/or Smith? Do Pierce and Hunter come back? Lots and lots of questions that our D guru coach needs to get figured out. If he can even improve our D to middle of the pack or even into the top 1/3rd we're a playoff team again.
I would say the baby DBs had better get better next year or 2021 will be a lost season regardless. I don't think they move on from Barr and Pierce and Hunter will return, Smith will have to take a paycut or go elsewhere which I don't like. Now I hear Kubiak has retired, so now the offense is in flux as well.
Quote: @"Chuckf" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"Chuckf" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"Vikergirl" said:
If he gets better protection and if they move forward to a more modern offense. They have to take off the training wheels and let it rip, otherwise they won't progress.
We were 14th in passing and 5th in rushing this year.
We were also 4th in total offense. We were only 16 yards per game behind the top team in Kansas City.
Cousis and the offense didnt screw the pooch this year. If Zimmer is to remain coach he needs to figure out WTF went wrong on defense and fix it. The offense is playing at a playoff caliber level.
Pretty obvious wha what wrong with the defense isn't it? All three starting CBs gone: Waynes, Rhodes, Alexander (yes I consider NB/slot corner a starter) then 3/4ths of starting Defensive line gone: Griffen, Joseph to FA, and Hunter to injury. Then to add insult to injury the big FA signing of Pierce blows up as he opts out due to COVID and his asthma and Barr tears a pectoral muscle in first game of season. Then Kendricks is gone the last 5 games due to injury. Mike Hughes gets hurt early also gone for season and Holton Hill as well. On top of all this yes the Vikings were going with the youth movement transition and COVID hits and no OTAs, truncated training camps and NO PRESEASON games. That's a killer for a team planning on going with a lot of young players and rookies on defense.
The original question/answer is obvious, the fix it question is the harder one. Do our baby DB's get better next year? Do you move on from Barr and/or Smith? Do Pierce and Hunter come back? Lots and lots of questions that our D guru coach needs to get figured out. If he can even improve our D to middle of the pack or even into the top 1/3rd we're a playoff team again.
I would say the baby DBs had better get better next year or 2021 will be a lost season regardless. I don't think they move on from Barr and Pierce and Hunter will return, Smith will have to take a paycut or go elsewhere which I don't like. Now I hear Kubiak has retired, so now the offense is in flux as well.
Worse, the guy we bring in will be working with Kirk Cousins, Adam Thielen, Dalvin Cook and Justin Freaking Jefferson. In other words, he could very likely move on just like Stef and Pat did. It's going to be the hottest job on the market.
I promote young Kubes and keep the same offense.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"Chuckf" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"Chuckf" said:
@"AGRforever" said:
@"Vikergirl" said:
If he gets better protection and if they move forward to a more modern offense. They have to take off the training wheels and let it rip, otherwise they won't progress.
We were 14th in passing and 5th in rushing this year.
We were also 4th in total offense. We were only 16 yards per game behind the top team in Kansas City.
Cousis and the offense didnt screw the pooch this year. If Zimmer is to remain coach he needs to figure out WTF went wrong on defense and fix it. The offense is playing at a playoff caliber level.
Pretty obvious wha what wrong with the defense isn't it? All three starting CBs gone: Waynes, Rhodes, Alexander (yes I consider NB/slot corner a starter) then 3/4ths of starting Defensive line gone: Griffen, Joseph to FA, and Hunter to injury. Then to add insult to injury the big FA signing of Pierce blows up as he opts out due to COVID and his asthma and Barr tears a pectoral muscle in first game of season. Then Kendricks is gone the last 5 games due to injury. Mike Hughes gets hurt early also gone for season and Holton Hill as well. On top of all this yes the Vikings were going with the youth movement transition and COVID hits and no OTAs, truncated training camps and NO PRESEASON games. That's a killer for a team planning on going with a lot of young players and rookies on defense.
The original question/answer is obvious, the fix it question is the harder one. Do our baby DB's get better next year? Do you move on from Barr and/or Smith? Do Pierce and Hunter come back? Lots and lots of questions that our D guru coach needs to get figured out. If he can even improve our D to middle of the pack or even into the top 1/3rd we're a playoff team again.
I would say the baby DBs had better get better next year or 2021 will be a lost season regardless. I don't think they move on from Barr and Pierce and Hunter will return, Smith will have to take a paycut or go elsewhere which I don't like. Now I hear Kubiak has retired, so now the offense is in flux as well.
I promote young Kubes and keep the same offense.
Let's call him Pubes for a nickname.
Quote: @"Purplewhizz" said:
Just for clarity, Cousins salary is $28M next season, ranking 12th in the league. It’s pretty average at this point and manageable. There are plenty of other areas money is being worse spent on this team.
I completely agree that there are other areas where spending is worse here, and Cousins's 2021 salary is manageable and justifiable in the NFL salary ecosystem.
The problem isn't his 2021 salary - it's his 2022 contract, where he is #1 in both salary ($35M) and especially cap hit ($45M).
But worst of all: his 2022 is guaranteed unless we cut him before the 2021 season (before the draft even). That's what's so tragic about the extension he was given - we have to "buy" him for the next 2 seasons, not just 1.
Quote: @"Jor-El" said:
@"Purplewhizz" said:
Just for clarity, Cousins salary is $28M next season, ranking 12th in the league. It’s pretty average at this point and manageable. There are plenty of other areas money is being worse spent on this team.
I completely agree that there are other areas where spending is worse here, and Cousins's 2021 salary is manageable and justifiable in the NFL salary ecosystem.
The problem isn't his 2021 salary - it's his 2022 contract, where he is #1 in both salary ($35M) and especially cap hit ($45M).
But worst of all: his 2022 is guaranteed unless we cut him before the 2021 season (before the draft even). That's what's so tragic about the extension he was given - we have to "buy" him for the next 2 seasons, not just 1.
I've been preaching this since summer and it doesnt seem to sink in for many, if they stay with him for 21, it could seriously affect what we can do in 2022 as well since we dont know where revenue will be this coming season and how that will affect the 2022 cap. I know I was hearing last night that major concert organizers arent booking any bands for large venues at least through the summer and taking a wait and see approach on fall dates.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Jor-El" said:
@"Purplewhizz" said:
Just for clarity, Cousins salary is $28M next season, ranking 12th in the league. It’s pretty average at this point and manageable. There are plenty of other areas money is being worse spent on this team.
I completely agree that there are other areas where spending is worse here, and Cousins's 2021 salary is manageable and justifiable in the NFL salary ecosystem.
The problem isn't his 2021 salary - it's his 2022 contract, where he is #1 in both salary ($35M) and especially cap hit ($45M).
But worst of all: his 2022 is guaranteed unless we cut him before the 2021 season (before the draft even). That's what's so tragic about the extension he was given - we have to "buy" him for the next 2 seasons, not just 1.
I've been preaching this since summer and it doesnt seem to sink in for many, if they stay with him for 21, it could seriously affect what we can do in 2022 as well since we dont know where revenue will be this coming season and how that will affect the 2022 cap. I know I was hearing last night that major concert organizers arent booking any bands for large venues at least through the summer and taking a wait and see approach on fall dates.
You're probably the one who got it through my head, Jimmy.
It always seemed like some kind of poison pill, but I don't really know why. TBH I think the intent was to "almost" completely guarantee the entire contract - without generating the attention that came with completely guaranteeing his entire contract when we signed him in 2018.
Quote: @"Jor-El" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"Jor-El" said:
@"Purplewhizz" said:
Just for clarity, Cousins salary is $28M next season, ranking 12th in the league. It’s pretty average at this point and manageable. There are plenty of other areas money is being worse spent on this team.
I completely agree that there are other areas where spending is worse here, and Cousins's 2021 salary is manageable and justifiable in the NFL salary ecosystem.
The problem isn't his 2021 salary - it's his 2022 contract, where he is #1 in both salary ($35M) and especially cap hit ($45M).
But worst of all: his 2022 is guaranteed unless we cut him before the 2021 season (before the draft even). That's what's so tragic about the extension he was given - we have to "buy" him for the next 2 seasons, not just 1.
I've been preaching this since summer and it doesnt seem to sink in for many, if they stay with him for 21, it could seriously affect what we can do in 2022 as well since we dont know where revenue will be this coming season and how that will affect the 2022 cap. I know I was hearing last night that major concert organizers arent booking any bands for large venues at least through the summer and taking a wait and see approach on fall dates.
You're probably the one who got it through my head, Jimmy.
It always seemed like some kind of poison pill, but I don't really know why. TBH I think the intent was to "almost" completely guarantee the entire contract - without generating the attention that came with completely guaranteeing his entire contract when we signed him in 2018. Don't worry, a quick restructure after 2021 and then we're only tied to Cousins through 2025. While we're at it let's lock up Mannion too.
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