Quote: @Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though.
https://www.vikings.com/video/film-room-...-potential
Pete does a good job breaking down Cleveland in this video. The Vikings are actually in a great position to be patient and let Cleveland compete with Rieff for the left tackle spot. If Rieff wins and Cleveland is forced to wait his turn, that is NOT the end of the world. I can live with that because it's only a matter of time (and money) before the LT spot is his. No need to force it too early.
As for both guards spots... let the best players battle it out. Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, Elflein, Kyle Hinton who knows maybe Josh Kline will want to come back and compete (the Vikings like the fast athletic type, so I'm not sure the coaching staff is sold on Warford).
If the Vikings are struggling at the guard spot by mid season,... that might be the time to think about kicking Rieff inside for a game or two to shake things up. The Vikings could even swing a deal for a guard before the trade deadline?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
i dont see a resistance to the idea, the resistance is to the notion that you should pencil them in as starters which so many seem to want to do in order to "cut" somebody that they have a hard on for.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
i dont see a resistance to the idea, the resistance is to the notion that you should pencil them in as starters which so many seem to want to do in order to "cut" somebody that they have a hard on for.
There's no penciling, only speculating. It is as Spielman said, "an open competition" at both spots.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
i dont see a resistance to the idea, the resistance is to the notion that you should pencil them in as starters which so many seem to want to do in order to "cut" somebody that they have a hard on for.
There's no penciling, only speculating. It is as Spielman said, "an open competition" at both spots.
the resistance only comes as fans lay out their starting lineman in the offseason, hell some dont even name a player, just "2nd round rookie" when they are talking who should start. I dont think its a big issue in most years for a vet to kick inside or even a rookie, but in a year with greatly reduced practice reps its a big gamble to assume that somebody is going to make a position change and be able to play it at a competent professional level.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
i dont see a resistance to the idea, the resistance is to the notion that you should pencil them in as starters which so many seem to want to do in order to "cut" somebody that they have a hard on for.
There's no penciling, only speculating. It is as Spielman said, "an open competition" at both spots.
the resistance only comes as fans lay out their starting lineman in the offseason, hell some dont even name a player, just "2nd round rookie" when they are talking who should start. I dont think its a big issue in most years for a vet to kick inside or even a rookie, but in a year with greatly reduced practice reps its a big gamble to assume that somebody is going to make a position change and be able to play it at a competent professional level. Nitpicky on my part but Martin, Scherff and Brooks were all projected at Guard coming into the NFL by most draft analyst and that is where they played from the start. But that has nothing to do with my main concern at Guard.
Udoh has very long arms (longer then O'Neill at RT) and has been listed and practiced at Tackle with the Vikings. Anything is possible, of course, but the main theme of all my posts is that we are making too many assumptions/guesses and hopeful thinking for my taste....again my opinion only. I'll repeat my point again, Collins has proven so injury prone I can't count on him as a starter, Udoh is a Tackle, Samia is a second year guy who appeared in 2 games and had some good snaps and some bad snaps vs the Bears finale. We need 2 starting Guards out of our mix. I don't have much hope for Elf or at least I hope someone can beat him out because he was awful. I am not for moving Reiff to guard (age for switch and would cut and save 8 million for a real Guard) or starting Cleveland at Guard for developmental reasons (unless training camp/preseason indicates that he is not a Tackle and we focus him at Guard from day 1 like with Martin, Scherff and Brooks above.
Overall, I have major concern that we are not improving our interior OL (2 Guards) at all heading into 2020. I didn't even mention Bradbury who was barely average at C and we all expect a big jump-up...again more hope/assumptions. Too many stars need to align for my liking. I would pounce on a guy like Warford and nail down one Guard position and then hope that the other G position is filled by the mix we all mention above.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
i dont see a resistance to the idea, the resistance is to the notion that you should pencil them in as starters which so many seem to want to do in order to "cut" somebody that they have a hard on for.
There's no penciling, only speculating. It is as Spielman said, "an open competition" at both spots.
the resistance only comes as fans lay out their starting lineman in the offseason, hell some dont even name a player, just "2nd round rookie" when they are talking who should start. I dont think its a big issue in most years for a vet to kick inside or even a rookie, but in a year with greatly reduced practice reps its a big gamble to assume that somebody is going to make a position change and be able to play it at a competent professional level. Nitpicky on my part but Martin, Scherff and Brooks were all projected at Guard coming into the NFL by most draft analyst and that is where they played from the start. But that has nothing to do with my main concern at Guard.
Udoh has very long arms (longer then O'Neill at RT) and has been listed and practiced at Tackle with the Vikings. Anything is possible, of course, but the main theme of all my posts is that we are making too many assumptions/guesses and hopeful thinking for my taste....again my opinion only. I'll repeat my point again, Collins has proven so injury prone I can't count on him as a starter, Udoh is a Tackle, Samia is a second year guy who appeared in 2 games and had some good snaps and some bad snaps vs the Bears finale. We need 2 starting Guards out of our mix. I don't have much hope for Elf or at least I hope someone can beat him out because he was awful. I am not for moving Reiff to guard (age for switch and would cut and save 8 million for a real Guard) or starting Cleveland at Guard for developmental reasons (unless training camp/preseason indicates that he is not a Tackle and we focus him at Guard from day 1 like with Martin, Scherff and Brooks above.
Overall, I have major concern that we are not improving our interior OL (2 Guards) at all heading into 2020. I didn't even mention Bradbury who was barely average at C and we all expect a big jump-up...again more hope/assumptions. Too many stars need to align for my liking. I would pounce on a guy like Warford and nail down one Guard position and then hope that the other G position is filled by the mix we all mention above.
those are first round OL talent (scherff actually played OG in college) vs guys that would be projects at their college positions transitioning to the pros. if we had taken a first round OL and decided to put him @ OG that might have been a bit different, but we have been talking about later round guys that need to fix their bodies or major holes in their games to be able to play the role they had been playing in college in the pro game.
its not unheard of for guys to make the changes we talk about, but I wouldnt bank a season on them... hell I wanted the team to try ONeill at LT last preseason just to see if he could make the move, or even against the bears in that final game of the season, i just think its crazy to assume somebody can flip sides or positions so easily because we have seen it fail so many times.
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