Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
So Reiff and a 3rd to get this done?
the team is still missing two guards. Maybe Klein comes back, but we still need a LG doesnt protect like he is standing there with his dick in his hand
I would do it for Reiff and a 3rd. Vikings may want to move Reiff inside to left guard, but he would be way overpaid there. So I tend to think moving Reiff and his money is the only way we could afford Williams' money.
What's more, if you take tackle off of the list of draft needs, you can draft a pretty damn good IOL. Cesar Ruiz between Williams and Bradberry would be pretty damn awesome.
I'm really warming up to Ruiz with our second 1st round pick.
He might not get passed Dallas.
I think Dallas has bigger needs, especially at DE. Chaisson would be a nice pick for them at 17.
Quote: @TBro said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
So Reiff and a 3rd to get this done?
the team is still missing two guards. Maybe Klein comes back, but we still need a LG doesnt protect like he is standing there with his dick in his hand
I would do it for Reiff and a 3rd. Vikings may want to move Reiff inside to left guard, but he would be way overpaid there. So I tend to think moving Reiff and his money is the only way we could afford Williams' money.
What's more, if you take tackle off of the list of draft needs, you can draft a pretty damn good IOL. Cesar Ruiz between Williams and Bradberry would be pretty damn awesome.
I'm really warming up to Ruiz with our second 1st round pick.
He might not get passed Dallas.
I think Dallas has bigger needs, especially at DE. Chaisson would be a nice pick for them at 17.
If he gets passed Atlanta.
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
So Reiff and a 3rd to get this done?
the team is still missing two guards. Maybe Klein comes back, but we still need a LG doesnt protect like he is standing there with his dick in his hand
I would do it for Reiff and a 3rd. Vikings may want to move Reiff inside to left guard, but he would be way overpaid there. So I tend to think moving Reiff and his money is the only way we could afford Williams' money.
What's more, if you take tackle off of the list of draft needs, you can draft a pretty damn good IOL. Cesar Ruiz between Williams and Bradberry would be pretty damn awesome.
I'm really warming up to Ruiz with our second 1st round pick.
He might not get passed Dallas. Question for you guys, because I am not a draft guru or much of a college fan, isn't Ruiz a Center? Are you saying he can play Guard or are you saying we move Bradberry?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
With Hill signed, Williams is more palatable as he'll probably get 3 starts...
What's your beef with Williams? Injuries? Yeah, he hasn't played a full season since 2013. However, he's played most games of each season since. 13, 10, 12, 15 games...that sort of thing. So we're not talking about anything debilitating. That's probably a few more missed games than most LTs, but even Reiff hasn't played 16 games in his last 4 seasons.
And, just for the hell of it, I looked up Tyron Smith. He's missed 3 games in each of the last 4 seasons.
And zero last year...I'm not sure Rick trades for a guy on the wrong side of 30, looking for a payday, with a pretty consistent injury history...
If I can get a LG next to Reiff who isn't a gapping sack of shit, say Josh Jones redshirting there as prep to take over LT in 2021, grab another IOL with the 3rd we'd give up, I think our long term picture is better...
Couple things argue for it. Williams is on the wrong side of 30 but he plays a position that typically ages well, even into the late 30s. A freakish athlete, he's also a good fit for what we do. Third, he and Cousins are good friends.
At his best, he's the best left tackle football. I'd give a 3rd to forget about LT for 4 or 5 years. Or at least until Udoh's ready.
There is no doubt that OTs tend to age favorably, but not all last that long. The issue with Williams is that although he hasn't suffered major injuries, any prior injury becomes magnified with age. Great physical talent and fits so well.. but when you're against the cap each dollar needs to be looked at with some associated risk. Especially since you'd be paying him at the top of the OT market without seeing him play for a year +.
Until Washington will do the deal for a 4th round pick, it doesn't make a ton of sense. It makes much more sense to have conviction in a OT draft target and trade the resources (albeit more) to save the cap dollars and go up the board.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
With Hill signed, Williams is more palatable as he'll probably get 3 starts...
What's your beef with Williams? Injuries? Yeah, he hasn't played a full season since 2013. However, he's played most games of each season since. 13, 10, 12, 15 games...that sort of thing. So we're not talking about anything debilitating. That's probably a few more missed games than most LTs, but even Reiff hasn't played 16 games in his last 4 seasons.
And, just for the hell of it, I looked up Tyron Smith. He's missed 3 games in each of the last 4 seasons.
And zero last year...I'm not sure Rick trades for a guy on the wrong side of 30, looking for a payday, with a pretty consistent injury history...
If I can get a LG next to Reiff who isn't a gapping sack of shit, say Josh Jones redshirting there as prep to take over LT in 2021, grab another IOL with the 3rd we'd give up, I think our long term picture is better...
Couple things argue for it. Williams is on the wrong side of 30 but he plays a position that typically ages well, even into the late 30s. A freakish athlete, he's also a good fit for what we do. Third, he and Cousins are good friends.
At his best, he's the best left tackle football. I'd give a 3rd to forget about LT for 4 or 5 years. Or at least until Udoh's ready.
There is no doubt that OTs tend to age favorably, but not all last that long. The issue with Williams is that although he hasn't suffered major injuries, any prior injury becomes magnified with age. Great physical talent and fits so well.. but when you're against the cap each dollar needs to be looked at with some associated risk. Especially since you'd be paying him at the top of the OT market without seeing him play for a year +.
Until Washington will do the deal for a 4th round pick, it doesn't make a ton of sense. It makes much more sense to have conviction in a OT draft target and trade the resources (albeit more) to save the cap dollars and go up the board. Agree. No more then a 4th which is unlikely. But I still think Reiff is still decent at LT and it is our interior that is a huge weak link (Elf). Reiff has also been more reliable (played) then Williams. The last 4 season Reiff:
15,13,15,14 games played/started. Williams: 0,13,10,12.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ TBro said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
So Reiff and a 3rd to get this done?
the team is still missing two guards. Maybe Klein comes back, but we still need a LG doesnt protect like he is standing there with his dick in his hand
I would do it for Reiff and a 3rd. Vikings may want to move Reiff inside to left guard, but he would be way overpaid there. So I tend to think moving Reiff and his money is the only way we could afford Williams' money.
What's more, if you take tackle off of the list of draft needs, you can draft a pretty damn good IOL. Cesar Ruiz between Williams and Bradberry would be pretty damn awesome.
I'm really warming up to Ruiz with our second 1st round pick.
He might not get passed Dallas. Question for you guys, because I am not a draft guru or much of a college fan, isn't Ruiz a Center? Are you saying he can play Guard or are you saying we move Bradberry?
He's got 5 starts as a RG in college and projects as a C or G. I think the same can be said of Cushenberry.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
With Hill signed, Williams is more palatable as he'll probably get 3 starts...
What's your beef with Williams? Injuries? Yeah, he hasn't played a full season since 2013. However, he's played most games of each season since. 13, 10, 12, 15 games...that sort of thing. So we're not talking about anything debilitating. That's probably a few more missed games than most LTs, but even Reiff hasn't played 16 games in his last 4 seasons.
And, just for the hell of it, I looked up Tyron Smith. He's missed 3 games in each of the last 4 seasons.
And zero last year...I'm not sure Rick trades for a guy on the wrong side of 30, looking for a payday, with a pretty consistent injury history...
If I can get a LG next to Reiff who isn't a gapping sack of shit, say Josh Jones redshirting there as prep to take over LT in 2021, grab another IOL with the 3rd we'd give up, I think our long term picture is better...
Couple things argue for it. Williams is on the wrong side of 30 but he plays a position that typically ages well, even into the late 30s. A freakish athlete, he's also a good fit for what we do. Third, he and Cousins are good friends.
At his best, he's the best left tackle football. I'd give a 3rd to forget about LT for 4 or 5 years. Or at least until Udoh's ready.
There is no doubt that OTs tend to age favorably, but not all last that long. The issue with Williams is that although he hasn't suffered major injuries, any prior injury becomes magnified with age. Great physical talent and fits so well.. but when you're against the cap each dollar needs to be looked at with some associated risk. Especially since you'd be paying him at the top of the OT market without seeing him play for a year +.
Until Washington will do the deal for a 4th round pick, it doesn't make a ton of sense. It makes much more sense to have conviction in a OT draft target and trade the resources (albeit more) to save the cap dollars and go up the board.
You have to factor in the capital you've already invested in your QB, too. THat's a big part of it. To me, it's riskier to count on a rookie immediately providing the kind of performance you need to protect your BIG money guy...than a guy who's been to 7 straight Pro Bowls, even if he did sit out a year.
Think of it this way: Reiff is making $13M. For, what, $3M more (and a middle round draft pick) you've done a lot to secure the man you've committed $60M to. And a good amount, too, to the running back you're about to extend.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
It's possible getting the Redskins to take Reiff and his salary would increase the compensation we have to give them.
I have liked the idea of getting Williams since he first held out, but I don't think the team will go for it. It's a "win now" move and I don't see evidence they are still thinking that way.
Reiff actually has a pretty team friendly contract and it wouldn't be a detriment if he were included in a trade. Very little dead money left and his cap hit is pretty reasonable for a starting caliber LT. It won't increase any trade compensation, if anything it might enhance the Vikings end of the deal if he were included.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ Jor-El said:
It's possible getting the Redskins to take Reiff and his salary would increase the compensation we have to give them.
I have liked the idea of getting Williams since he first held out, but I don't think the team will go for it. It's a "win now" move and I don't see evidence they are still thinking that way.
Reiff actually has a pretty team friendly contract and it wouldn't be a detriment if he were included in a trade. Very little dead money left and his cap hit is pretty reasonable for a starting caliber LT. It won't increase any trade compensation, if anything it might enhance the Vikings end of the deal if he were included.
And putting him next to Scherff might be good for Washington who has to hope to find a way to convince Scherff to stay in DC.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
With Hill signed, Williams is more palatable as he'll probably get 3 starts...
What's your beef with Williams? Injuries? Yeah, he hasn't played a full season since 2013. However, he's played most games of each season since. 13, 10, 12, 15 games...that sort of thing. So we're not talking about anything debilitating. That's probably a few more missed games than most LTs, but even Reiff hasn't played 16 games in his last 4 seasons.
And, just for the hell of it, I looked up Tyron Smith. He's missed 3 games in each of the last 4 seasons.
And zero last year...I'm not sure Rick trades for a guy on the wrong side of 30, looking for a payday, with a pretty consistent injury history...
If I can get a LG next to Reiff who isn't a gapping sack of shit, say Josh Jones redshirting there as prep to take over LT in 2021, grab another IOL with the 3rd we'd give up, I think our long term picture is better...
Couple things argue for it. Williams is on the wrong side of 30 but he plays a position that typically ages well, even into the late 30s. A freakish athlete, he's also a good fit for what we do. Third, he and Cousins are good friends.
At his best, he's the best left tackle football. I'd give a 3rd to forget about LT for 4 or 5 years. Or at least until Udoh's ready.
There is no doubt that OTs tend to age favorably, but not all last that long. The issue with Williams is that although he hasn't suffered major injuries, any prior injury becomes magnified with age. Great physical talent and fits so well.. but when you're against the cap each dollar needs to be looked at with some associated risk. Especially since you'd be paying him at the top of the OT market without seeing him play for a year +.
Until Washington will do the deal for a 4th round pick, it doesn't make a ton of sense. It makes much more sense to have conviction in a OT draft target and trade the resources (albeit more) to save the cap dollars and go up the board.
You have to factor in the capital you've already invested in your QB, too. THat's a big part of it. To me, it's riskier to count on a rookie immediately providing the kind of performance you need to protect your BIG money guy...than a guy who's been to 7 straight Pro Bowls, even if he did sit out a year.
Think of it this way: Reiff is making $13M. For, what, $3M more (and a middle round draft pick) you've done a lot to secure the man you've committed $60M to. And a good amount, too, to the running back you're about to extend.
The cap implications make that tricky though. Not disagreeing with the fact Trent is a more talented player than Reiff. But the cash/cap don't line up perfectly since releasing Reiff incurs $4.5M in dead money to give you the space for Williams. So bring in his new salary of say $16-17M and add Reiff's dead money and you're looking at a gap of your $3-4M + 4.5M. So in 2020 its really paying an additional $8M or so. That is pretty steep.
Of course the caveat is that you can keep Williams on a lower cap number in 2020. But you're only prolonging the guaranteed money and increasing the future cap impacts.
After making that sounds very unpalatable.. I do think Williams helps this team. It just either has to be at a discounted price in either contract or the trade compensation.
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