Great post, AGR! Thanks for sharing it. I wonder if anyone will answer your question... because they certainly aren't willing to answer mine.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
Im lost? Why should we cherry pick the worst months return of any presidency and try to use that as the result for said presidency? Itd be like saying the Vikings gave up 10 points (and didnt score) in the second quarter aftet they scored 21 (and gave up 0) in the first quarter. Who is up at halftime?
We’re sitting -650 point on the dow off the all time high inspite of the collusion BS. 2ish percent. 2-3 good days in a row. Boeing not being incompetent at software glitches etc.
I'm not cherry picking anything. Look at a damn calendar and what was going on January 2018 and the Dow Jones response since then. It's all over the map daily but for past 15 months it's flat as a board. You're choosing to stick your head in the sand why it suddenly cooled off.
Trump had passed no major legislation in 2017 and no tax cuts, hence the economy is still riding on Obama's economic policies because at that point there had been no significant change to our policies - Dow continues it's 7 yr trend of growth and unemployment continues to fall.
Are you still with me?
Now tell me what changed in January 2018?
January 2018: Trump announced TARIFFS + TRADE WARS
Do you think it's some sort of fucking coincidence how the market reacted within days of Trump's announcement of the tariffs on China? That now that Trump actually passes legislation and puts tariffs in place he has flatlined the stock market?
Are you saying the market hasn't stalled for the last 15 months, or accepting the zero growth but debating why it stalled?
Lordy, helping you people connect the dots is painful ... this isn't rocket science.
Quite being a dick. You're intentionally massaging the data/dates to fit your narrative. You are correct we are in a trade war with China. I'd assume that at some point that will fix itself and we'll see dow 30,000.
The fact is we were at ~2200 on the S&P500 on election day. We're at 2895 right now. Assuming my math is right thats 31.5% increase in 2.5 years since trump was elected.
During that time he's faced a constant attempted coup. He's dealt with and successfully renegotiated terms within Nafta (I know they don't kick in till 2020). He's working with Europe and others on Nato and trade both of which needed to be looked at. You're in finance. You know this but wont acknowledge it. The Federal reserve raised rates 2 times under Obama (once in the lame duck session). It only went up a mind boggling .5% during Obama's entire term. .25% of which happened after Trump was elected. They've done it SEVEN times since Trump has been in office. It took the rate from .75% to 2.5%. If that weren't enough the Fed has also been unwinding their balance sheet to the tune of $50 billion a month. Did you casually forget that FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of funny money that they put into Obama's economy to keep it afloat for as long as they did?
The Fed interest rate increases and unwinding alone would have been enough to completely derail the Obama economy but yet here we are. Even with the trade war and the Fed we're still standing. Unemployment is at record lows. Consumer confidence is near all time highs. Household net worth is at all time highs. Household debt service ratio is at the lowest ever. Wage growth is as good as its been since the late years of Bush 2.0. I'm not a fan of Trump but I do give him credit where its due.
You and Kingbash however are so GD butthurt by the guy that you can't see through your hatred of the man to believe we've had anything positive happen.
The mueller report will be out soon and it'll say exactly what Barr said: No collusion and then yall will have to move onto your next racist/nazi/small hands/golf cheater or whatever new thing you guys cook up. Just face it. Hillary lost. It still haunts you. Trump has had rent free living space in your head for +3years and its driving you crazy.
I'm being a dick for pointing out the obvious:
The Dow hasn't gained shit since the trade wars started. Spin it however you want, you can't escape it and accept the basic math.
You can continue to deny it all you want, but at this point you're the only one here in denial. It's beyond comical.
At least you've accepted the Dow has flatlined for some strange reason, but you're going to keep pimping the great results prior to the tariffs when the USA was still using Obama's policies and economy, and scratch your head why it's such a mystery we have seen no net gains in 15 months since Trump's policies started. The timing with the tariffs is just pure coincidence .... truly remarkable.
FYI I could care less about Hillary, the only ones who care about her are Trump and his supporters because after 5 years of being out of office you still can't shut up about her.
Netflix has a documentary out right now about flat earthers (called Behind The Curve). Watching that reminded me that talking to the people in this thread is pointless. Yeah, I've basically resorted to just acting like an asshole, but it's because pointing out basic, irrefutable facts like you're doing for them will just fall on deaf ears. Flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, Trump-supporters... they're all fundamentally the same. This distrust in government that's been sowed over the years has created such a paranoia, such an anti-science movement that it's almost impossible to change their minds no matter how much you talk.
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
Meanwhile, Obama didn't wear a flag lapel to a debate 10 years ago and these were the same people that used that as proof that he hates America.
Quote: @KingBash said:
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
See that is nonsense. Trump did not collude with Russia. We can stop pretending now. You have switched from Russia/Trump collusion to theoretical what-ifs about how his supporters would react if he did collude. Wow.
All we want on the right is the people who created the hoax to be investigated and prosecuted.
This was an intelligence operation. To cover up the Obama spying. And the media was in on it.
Certainly we can all agree an administration should not spy on the opposing party.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
Im lost? Why should we cherry pick the worst months return of any presidency and try to use that as the result for said presidency? Itd be like saying the Vikings gave up 10 points (and didnt score) in the second quarter aftet they scored 21 (and gave up 0) in the first quarter. Who is up at halftime?
We’re sitting -650 point on the dow off the all time high inspite of the collusion BS. 2ish percent. 2-3 good days in a row. Boeing not being incompetent at software glitches etc.
I'm not cherry picking anything. Look at a damn calendar and what was going on January 2018 and the Dow Jones response since then. It's all over the map daily but for past 15 months it's flat as a board. You're choosing to stick your head in the sand why it suddenly cooled off.
Trump had passed no major legislation in 2017 and no tax cuts, hence the economy is still riding on Obama's economic policies because at that point there had been no significant change to our policies - Dow continues it's 7 yr trend of growth and unemployment continues to fall.
Are you still with me?
Now tell me what changed in January 2018?
January 2018: Trump announced TARIFFS + TRADE WARS
Do you think it's some sort of fucking coincidence how the market reacted within days of Trump's announcement of the tariffs on China? That now that Trump actually passes legislation and puts tariffs in place he has flatlined the stock market?
Are you saying the market hasn't stalled for the last 15 months, or accepting the zero growth but debating why it stalled?
Lordy, helping you people connect the dots is painful ... this isn't rocket science.
Quite being a dick. You're intentionally massaging the data/dates to fit your narrative. You are correct we are in a trade war with China. I'd assume that at some point that will fix itself and we'll see dow 30,000.
The fact is we were at ~2200 on the S&P500 on election day. We're at 2895 right now. Assuming my math is right thats 31.5% increase in 2.5 years since trump was elected.
During that time he's faced a constant attempted coup. He's dealt with and successfully renegotiated terms within Nafta (I know they don't kick in till 2020). He's working with Europe and others on Nato and trade both of which needed to be looked at. You're in finance. You know this but wont acknowledge it. The Federal reserve raised rates 2 times under Obama (once in the lame duck session). It only went up a mind boggling .5% during Obama's entire term. .25% of which happened after Trump was elected. They've done it SEVEN times since Trump has been in office. It took the rate from .75% to 2.5%. If that weren't enough the Fed has also been unwinding their balance sheet to the tune of $50 billion a month. Did you casually forget that FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of funny money that they put into Obama's economy to keep it afloat for as long as they did?
The Fed interest rate increases and unwinding alone would have been enough to completely derail the Obama economy but yet here we are. Even with the trade war and the Fed we're still standing. Unemployment is at record lows. Consumer confidence is near all time highs. Household net worth is at all time highs. Household debt service ratio is at the lowest ever. Wage growth is as good as its been since the late years of Bush 2.0. I'm not a fan of Trump but I do give him credit where its due.
You and Kingbash however are so GD butthurt by the guy that you can't see through your hatred of the man to believe we've had anything positive happen.
The mueller report will be out soon and it'll say exactly what Barr said: No collusion and then yall will have to move onto your next racist/nazi/small hands/golf cheater or whatever new thing you guys cook up. Just face it. Hillary lost. It still haunts you. Trump has had rent free living space in your head for +3years and its driving you crazy.
I'm being a dick for pointing out the obvious:
The Dow hasn't gained shit since the trade wars started. Spin it however you want, you can't escape it and accept the basic math.
You can continue to deny it all you want, but at this point you're the only one here in denial. It's beyond comical.
At least you've accepted the Dow has flatlined for some strange reason, but you're going to keep pimping the great results prior to the tariffs when the USA was still using Obama's policies and economy, and scratch your head why it's such a mystery we have seen no net gains in 15 months since Trump's policies started. The timing with the tariffs is just pure coincidence .... truly remarkable.
FYI I could care less about Hillary, the only ones who care about her are Trump and his supporters because after 5 years of being out of office you still can't shut up about her.
Netflix has a documentary out right now about flat earthers (called Behind The Curve). Watching that reminded me that talking to the people in this thread is pointless. Yeah, I've basically resorted to just acting like an asshole, but it's because pointing out basic, irrefutable facts like you're doing for them will just fall on deaf ears. Flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, Trump-supporters... they're all fundamentally the same. This distrust in government that's been sowed over the years has created such a paranoia, such an anti-science movement that it's almost impossible to change their minds no matter how much you talk.
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
Meanwhile, Obama didn't wear a flag lapel to a debate 10 years ago and these were the same people that used that as proof that he hates America.
Did I not just post with facts? A well reasoned argument? You post in response to SFvikes post was from mine. Where have I flat earthed or antivaxed? It seems to me that youre the one with their fingers in their ears yelling about everyone else not listening. Please do post a well reasoned position as to why the economy has sat stagnat without accounting for the Federal Reserves actions?
Oh abd Fyi, Obama did get caught on camera talking to the Rusian about his “flexibility” after the 2012 election.
Quote: @A1Janitor said:
@ KingBash said:
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
See that is nonsense. Trump did not collude with Russia. We can stop pretending now. You have switched from Russia/Trump collusion to theoretical what-ifs about how his supporters would react if he did collude. Wow.
No, he did. You're wrong.
All we want on the right is the people who created the hoax to be investigated and prosecuted.
I agree, we should prosecute Trump, Don Jr., etc. They were the ones who created this hoax mess by getting into bed with Russia. We do agree!
This was an intelligence operation. To cover up the Obama spying. And the media was in on it.
"But Obama..." Again. It's all you Fox Newsers have.
Certainly we can all agree an administration should not spy on the opposing party.
Exactly. Kind of like we can agree Trump shouldn't have asked Russia to interfere in the election and get Hillary's emails.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ KingBash said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
I'm being a dick for pointing out the obvious:
The Dow hasn't gained shit since the trade wars started. Spin it however you want, you can't escape it and accept the basic math.
You can continue to deny it all you want, but at this point you're the only one here in denial. It's beyond comical.
At least you've accepted the Dow has flatlined for some strange reason, but you're going to keep pimping the great results prior to the tariffs when the USA was still using Obama's policies and economy, and scratch your head why it's such a mystery we have seen no net gains in 15 months since Trump's policies started. The timing with the tariffs is just pure coincidence .... truly remarkable.
FYI I could care less about Hillary, the only ones who care about her are Trump and his supporters because after 5 years of being out of office you still can't shut up about her.
Netflix has a documentary out right now about flat earthers (called Behind The Curve). Watching that reminded me that talking to the people in this thread is pointless. Yeah, I've basically resorted to just acting like an asshole, but it's because pointing out basic, irrefutable facts like you're doing for them will just fall on deaf ears. Flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, Trump-supporters... they're all fundamentally the same. This distrust in government that's been sowed over the years has created such a paranoia, such an anti-science movement that it's almost impossible to change their minds no matter how much you talk.
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
Meanwhile, Obama didn't wear a flag lapel to a debate 10 years ago and these were the same people that used that as proof that he hates America.
Did I not just post with facts? A well reasoned argument? You post in response to SFvikes post was from mine. Where have I flat earthed or antivaxed? It seems to me that youre the one with their fingers in their ears yelling about everyone else not listening. Please do post a well reasoned position as to why the economy has sat stagnat without accounting for the Federal Reserves actions?
Oh abd Fyi, Obama did get caught on camera talking to the Rusian about his “flexibility” after the 2012 election.
Hey, respond to him. I was just pointing out how pointless it is to talk to people like yourself.
Oh abd FYI, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-...ty-russia/. Do you not realize the absolute, complete amount of GFY hypocrisy on your part? Is your head buried in the sand? This is why it's such a waste of time. If you're calling that out, you can't call out the Trump admin?
Holy fuck why did I ever start posting on this message board again? I blame myself, in the long run here.
AGR,
Good post. To keep this simple, yes I absolutely agree the QE shrinking policy absolutely plays a large role in the economy.
And to be fair the Dow is only one economic indicator of the overall economy. However it's the most reactionary indicator and the first major warning sign.
As for how much the Trump tariffs have cost us, you're way off the mark.
https://www.inc.com/business-insider/tru...tober.html
Article here states US companies lost $6 billion on just the month of October 2018. Bailout alone for just soybean farmers was $7 billion, but the loss of the entire soybean market when China buys more than 90% of our soybeans was far more.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/...porations/
Forbes puts it at $35 billion.
http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2019/02/2...e-war-cost
Fortune says $40 billion.
Either way, despite what A1Janitor and his supposed PhD brother might think, nearly every economist out there agrees the tariffs and trade wars are having the opposite effect of what Trump promised, exactly what nearly every economist predicted this result.
Trump doesn't understand this isn't the 1800's. Supply chains are globally woven to minimize costs. When you start forcing other countries to pay higher costs that has real impacts on sourcing and manufacturing costs here in US. We don't make everything here and never will, you can't compete with labor costs in Mexico and Asia. Those factories from the 1940s and 1950s aren't coming back.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ KingBash said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ AGRforever said:
I'm being a dick for pointing out the obvious:
The Dow hasn't gained shit since the trade wars started. Spin it however you want, you can't escape it and accept the basic math.
You can continue to deny it all you want, but at this point you're the only one here in denial. It's beyond comical.
At least you've accepted the Dow has flatlined for some strange reason, but you're going to keep pimping the great results prior to the tariffs when the USA was still using Obama's policies and economy, and scratch your head why it's such a mystery we have seen no net gains in 15 months since Trump's policies started. The timing with the tariffs is just pure coincidence .... truly remarkable.
FYI I could care less about Hillary, the only ones who care about her are Trump and his supporters because after 5 years of being out of office you still can't shut up about her.
Netflix has a documentary out right now about flat earthers (called Behind The Curve). Watching that reminded me that talking to the people in this thread is pointless. Yeah, I've basically resorted to just acting like an asshole, but it's because pointing out basic, irrefutable facts like you're doing for them will just fall on deaf ears. Flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, Trump-supporters... they're all fundamentally the same. This distrust in government that's been sowed over the years has created such a paranoia, such an anti-science movement that it's almost impossible to change their minds no matter how much you talk.
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
Meanwhile, Obama didn't wear a flag lapel to a debate 10 years ago and these were the same people that used that as proof that he hates America.
Did I not just post with facts? A well reasoned argument? You post in response to SFvikes post was from mine. Where have I flat earthed or antivaxed? It seems to me that youre the one with their fingers in their ears yelling about everyone else not listening. Please do post a well reasoned position as to why the economy has sat stagnat without accounting for the Federal Reserves actions?
Oh abd Fyi, Obama did get caught on camera talking to the Rusian about his “flexibility” after the 2012 election.
Hey, respond to him. I was just pointing out how pointless it is to talk to people like yourself.
Oh abd FYI, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-...ty-russia/. Do you not realize the absolute, complete amount of GFY hypocrisy on your part? Is your head buried in the sand? This is why it's such a waste of time. If you're calling that out, you can't call out the Trump admin?
Holy fuck why did I ever start posting on this message board again? I blame myself, in the long run here.
I think you should continue posting. Just don't take it so seriously. I mean, for Christ's sake, you're talking to folks who voted for a man who gets into twitter wars with teen Hollywood, who think Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring out of a pizza place, who think school shooting victims are crisis actors and eggheaded academics are motived by greed to lie about the climate, while oil companies are telling us the truth.
Do you talk to street preachers too? Sometimes its best to just let it go.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ A1Janitor said:
Certainly we can all agree an administration should not spy on the opposing party.
Exactly. Kind of like we can agree Trump shouldn't have asked Russia to interfere in the election and get Hillary's emails.
O.M.G.
You mean this... don't you?
(don't know if the video link will post. sometimes they do/sometimes they don't. Google " video Trump asks Russia to find missing HRC emails")
It. was. a. joke. I remember watching it on the news, and l'ingmao.
For those of you continually claiming Trump/Trumpists are unsophisticated rubes... you have to be incredibly naive/gullible to seriously think that that
was justification to begin a Special Counsel investigation.
But I guess you are. No wonder ya'll been gobsmacked after the Mueller report.
First... Trump was a CANDIDATE at the time. He had no power/sway over ANYTHING. Even if he was 'serious'.
Second... Russia (& China & Iran & NK, etc etc) are/were ALREADY trying to hack emails of government officials. They hardly need any suggestion from
CANDIDATE Trump.
Third... 30,000 plus emails from HRC's private (illegal) email server indeed went missing. Actually... ERASED UNDER SUBPOENA.
(but the emails were all about yoga/Chelsea's wedding... don't worry)
Trump was simply and sarcastically suggesting since OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE/STATE DEPT can't seem to locate the subpoenaed emails... maybe Russia
could do us a solid! LOL. Twas fuckin' brilliant!
& ya'll thought that was proof of collusion. SMH. Trump is living rent-free in ya'lls heads. It's embarrassing to witness.
Podesta's DNC emails got hacked because he responded to a phish. Sorry. The RNC got phished as well, apparently they were to savvy to bite. 
The FBI could have helped out... but the DNC wouldn't let them investigate. Gave it to CrowdStrike...lol.
There was a fellow liberal who posted a column to try to help ya'll deal with Trump. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc...gh/501335/
You should read it... and heed it. Cuz presently, ya'll coming off very weak.
Quote: @A1Janitor said:
@ KingBash said:
Trump's policies aside, if he were caught dead to rights on camera behind closed doors with Putin discussing overthrowing the US government and undermining, the people in this thread would scream conspiracy/fake news, or they'd justify it as a good thing somehow.
See that is nonsense. Trump did not collude with Russia. We can stop pretending now. You have switched from Russia/Trump collusion to theoretical what-ifs about how his supporters would react if he did collude. Wow.
All we want on the right is the people who created the hoax to be investigated and prosecuted.
This was an intelligence operation. To cover up the Obama spying. And the media was in on it.
Certainly we can all agree an administration should not spy on the opposing party.
You are wholly detached from reality.
Obama was spying?? Trump and his team didn't actively seek out and accept meetings with Russians? Better yet, Flynn, Manafort and the rest of the campaign staff decided to plead guilty about their contacts with Russians because it was a hoax?
I hope one day you're able to find reality again.
Goebbels would be proud of this administration.
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