Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
So for those of us that take PFF grades for not worth paper they are printed on (or bandwidth they occupy) ... I found another reason to discount them. I wasnt aware that Cris Collinworth owned it until it was just brought up by Leber on KFan. They were talking about how he likes to quote those grades non stop in his game calling and Leber said well duh, he own PFF. So if the guy who is neck and neck with Buck for being the biggest scrote sucker in the game of NFL announcing is in charge of a metric, I just have another reason to question the veracity of those results.
Interesting. I didn't know that. Agree that it does seem to be a conflict of interest.
Disagree on the other counts. PFF was a spectacular idea IMO. It was a much needed resource. I remember back in the day, while you could find countless resources for in-depth analysis, strengths, weaknesses, grades of any player available in the draft, there was virtually nothing on NFL players, free agents. So I like what they're doing. I just wish they'd do it better.
Also, and this is obviously just me, but I've never quite understood why folks get so upset at announcers.
i dont like Collinsworth because he doesnt do a for shit job of preparing for his games and he ends up spewing shit that is wrong during the game, and he is such a nut sucker to the media darlings. if i wanted to hear somebody cheering for my teams opponents I would find an opposing teams feed online. Its petty, but he annoys the shit out of me... kind of like Charles Davis on Fox... he just says the dumbest shit.
as far as PFF, I can see their value, but I still question the accuracy of their product, like I said, to much human element that takes place in the moment to adequately score a players performance with limited knowledge of the game plans and plays called.
CC is one of the worst. He talked all night about the cowboys even as we beat their asses. The boys hate him because he was on the Madden game and was so inane there. His live calls aren't much better.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
So for those of us that take PFF grades for not worth paper they are printed on (or bandwidth they occupy) ... I found another reason to discount them. I wasnt aware that Cris Collinworth owned it until it was just brought up by Leber on KFan. They were talking about how he likes to quote those grades non stop in his game calling and Leber said well duh, he own PFF. So if the guy who is neck and neck with Buck for being the biggest scrote sucker in the game of NFL announcing is in charge of a metric, I just have another reason to question the veracity of those results.
Interesting. I didn't know that. Agree that it does seem to be a conflict of interest.
Disagree on the other counts. PFF was a spectacular idea IMO. It was a much needed resource. I remember back in the day, while you could find countless resources for in-depth analysis, strengths, weaknesses, grades of any player available in the draft, there was virtually nothing on NFL players, free agents. So I like what they're doing. I just wish they'd do it better.
Also, and this is obviously just me, but I've never quite understood why folks get so upset at announcers.
i dont like Collinsworth because he doesnt do a for shit job of preparing for his games and he ends up spewing shit that is wrong during the game, and he is such a nut sucker to the media darlings. if i wanted to hear somebody cheering for my teams opponents I would find an opposing teams feed online. Its petty, but he annoys the shit out of me... kind of like Charles Davis on Fox... he just says the dumbest shit.
as far as PFF, I can see their value, but I still question the accuracy of their product, like I said, to much human element that takes place in the moment to adequately score a players performance with limited knowledge of the game plans and plays called.
CC is one of the worst. He talked all night about the cowboys even as we beat their asses. The boys hate him because he was on the Madden game and was so inane there. His live calls aren't much better.
that would be enough to get me to throw the game away.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
My thoughts on PFF:
- I don't think you can say "PFF grades for not worth paper they are printed on (or bandwidth they occupy)." As of 2019, PFF provides customized data to all 32 NFL teams, 62 NCAA FBS teams, 4 CFL teams, national/regional media (i.e. Washington Post, The Athletic, ESPN) and sports agencies/agents. Teams are not spending money on the data supplied if it is not worth the paper such information is printed on.
- It is a tool, one of many that teams, newspapers and fans can use. It is not the definitive tools just like QB rating is not the definitive measuring stick for QBs. It is just one data point. It gets criticized when people use it as a single data point. It is simply one tool among many.
- If Colinsworth thought it was a good investment, it is his money. I highly doubt he is having the data manipulated in some way to benefit himself. How does a manipulation of the data help his broadcasting career?
- He should however mention his ownership when he cites it during a broadcast because it is a subscription service. In fact, it may violate FTC rules requiring disclosures. Frankly, I don't recall him calling out PFF during the game (but I wasn't listening for those call outs either).
Bingo. They are utilized by many teams as another set of eyes. It does not necessarily mean they are correct. But maybe they see something a team does not see?
Their top players are usually pretty good and they match up with the NFL All Pro teams too. Their All Pro list for 2018 matches what the AP list says almost to a T. Only a couple of differences.
I think it was very smart of him to invest in this company.
My issue with PFF is that on a common sense level, some of their claims of how they do things doesn't pencil out.
Did not realize all 32 teams are subscribers. Does Zim know?
As noted, they provide another way of evaluating players. I think the issue is when reporters or fans think that number is the end all and if PFF sez Berger was the best center, then he was. Or that so and so sucks because PFF said so. Zim obviously knows a bit more about his players grades than PFF does.
Of course, if you wanted to discredit PFF, the #7 ranking of the Dark Elf ™ would have been sufficient.
Quote: @Ralphie said:
Had Prescott won the game for the Girlz, I'm sure Chris would have got him and Zak a room. He gushed over Prescott like a teenage girl all night.
and demarcus lawrence as well
Analytics is legit in every sport. Just like Big Data in business. PFF is the Lombardi-era version of the Forward Pass compared to what will supplant it in the future. It's still a useful tool that every single member here has quoted at one time or another to support his/her point. And teams use it in their own way for a reason.
PFF grades are a joke. Entertainment value only.
Their advanced statistics, however, are no joke. They are no longer made available to fans.
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