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11-20-2018, 01:06 AM

The situation seems fluid... Wink

B)

11-20-2018, 01:13 AM

I have a problem with the whole "Defense isn't the problem" narrative.

Why? Smith, Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander, Barr, Kendricks. That's 7 first or second round picks. And Griff and Hunter were 3rd round picks. Plus FA signings like Joseph and Richardson.

Tons of Draft Capital and Coin to field a Unit that is not taking games over ala the Bears. And Chicago apparently didn't get the memo that the League legislated Defense out of the game.

No pass from me. The Team pushed the majority of their chips into the pile betting on a great Defense that could maybe be Elite/All Time. The results have been anything but that. And that rests solely on Mike Zimmer's shoulders.

11-20-2018, 01:14 AM

Quote: @JimmyinSD said:

@holmanjp said:
I believe the NFL is going a different direction than Zim is custom to. It has passed him by.

Now to Rick, either we have a talented team or we don't.
I lean towards we have on paper a very talented team. Rick should get the credit.

Yes the Oline sucks, Why do we draft a DB high every year?
Was it Rick, or was it Rick doing what Zim wanted.
because the league is going to a passing game and quality DBs are very hard to find so when you see one you better get one since there are usually at least 3 on the field for every snap and they alone can change a game in todays NFL. Corners are getting harder to find IMO with the way the league pushes for arena type scoring.

I probably jumped the gun by falling into the DB drafted high every year cliche.

2018 The D seamed alright last night and last year without Hues. Would an Oline men been a better choice?

2017 Did last years team need Cook? We know Zim wants to pound the ball and keep games close. What has he done this year minus a few fumbles? Would an Oline men been a better choice?

2016 Was MN a 1st round WR away from a SB, did they need Treadwell? Would an Oline men been a better choice?

11-20-2018, 02:13 AM

Quote: @greediron said:

@holmanjp said:
I believe the NFL is going a different direction than Zim is custom to. It has passed him by.
I see this so often and have no idea why people think that. His D is still very good no matter how much the NFL rules favor the offense. Zim is a great coach. The offense struggling, the QB having an off night isn't on Zim.

Top teams (25% of league 8 teams) that spend highest percent of cap on D. (more than 41%)
Jac 219 points against
Mn 229 points against 47.57% this year 22.9 points per game. 41.17% last year 17.4 points per game. 2016 36.41% 19.2 points per game. 2015 37.20% 18.4 points per game
Tex 205 points against
Den 235 points against
Cin 256 points against
Ten 189 points against
Los 231 points against
Kan 240 points against
225.5 average points against highest paid Ds
225.5 divided by 11 games = 20.5 points against per game

Div leaders % spent on D and points against
9-1 Saints 32% 239 points
7-3 Bears 38% 195 points
9-1 Rams see above
6-4 Skins 36% 198 points
7-3 Texans see above
7-2-1 Steelers 30% 225 points
9-1 Chiefs see above
7-3 Pats 37% 236 points

Points against Div leaders minus the 3 teams in Highest paid category.
176 average points against or 16 points per game
Add in 3 teams listed in highest paid d category.
194 average points against or 17.5 points per game

Div leaders are doing more with less spent on D,
than the top 25% D spenders
20.5 points vs 16 points per game on average.

1 more point per game allowed on average, and MN is 16th in points allowed,yet 2nd in highest D salary.
I'm betting if they didn't sign Kirk. Barr would have gotten a new deal that would put MN #1 highest paid D
and over 50% of cap.

11-20-2018, 02:14 AM

I think Rick messed up with our Offensive line a few ways this year.
1. He tried to replace Berger with Remmers...I think Remmers is better at RT and certainly no Berger.
2. He misjudged in the draft and probably all the people we was intrested in,was long gone till we got to our 2nd pick.
3. But the thing that really hurt Rick was Easton with a season ending injury.

Hence then he scrambled bringing in tier 3 players to fill the void.
I thought Jones seemed like a good pickup but we haven't seen him play hardly at all.

Zimmer seems like he is a good judge of talent...but question rather he can get us to the SB.
I think Zimmer stays until Cousins contract is up. So far this isn't what we was expecting this year.

11-20-2018, 02:34 AM

I think fans are just generally bitchy and impatient when it comes to losing. Most fans don't have a reasonable understanding in what is normal in the league. There are two paths to the Super Bowl. 1) you have an elite QB and you are always in the playoffs. 2) You have up and down years and maybe you get lucky and everything clicks and you make it to the SB. You can have the perfect plan and then your QBs knee explodes, or your HOF RB beats his kid and misses the whole season, and it submarines all your efforts. The NFL is hard to be consistently good at. Injuries just happen and if you have too many injuries or all your injuries are in one place you just can't overcome it. Mike Zimmer is the 36th most winningest head coach in terms of percentage. The Vikings went almost 30 years without having a coach that is better at winning than Zimmer. By this time in his career, Dennis Green hadn't yet made it out of the wild card round.
I think Zimmer (and to a lesser extent Spielman) have built a team that is solid in almost all areas. Most teams can't say that. We've got decent depth in a lot of areas. I think we've got one clear area of weakness (the OLine). I'd like to see us try and finish this out by dumping everything into the OLine and seeing what happens. If Spielman screws up the OLine again next year, I'd fire him and hire a GM that would promise to fix the OLine, and still keep Zimmer. If we need to hire an assistant who's sole job is to figure out how to be good after the bye, lets do that. If we need to hire an assistant head coach to motivate millenials, then do that. If we need a guy to call Zimmer a pussy every time he goes too conservative, then get that guy. I think we're close enough that I'd rather do minor tweaking than massive changes.

11-20-2018, 05:17 AM

I don't see RS/Zim going anywhere any time soon unless Zim just gets sick of things and retires. It took Wilf years of the stupid t.o.a. and his stupid mgmt/coaching hires to stumble into RS who is at least competent and hired a decent coach in Zim. I doubt Zygi goes blowing things up now, he probably learned what a nitwit he is when it comes to this stuff and will just leave things status quo. We'll just have to hope for better days ahead, this year seems like we are good but not great and that won't get us past the Saints or Rams if we do make the playoffs.

I just stick to the old Meathead Mike Tice philosophy and "enjoy the season!" win or lose.

11-20-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote: @Mike Olson said:
I think we have seen the ceiling for what this group can attain. This year or bust. All kinds of talent on this team. But their decisions contibually hamstring us.

Maybe. Not sure I'm there, but I'm getting there.

11-20-2018, 12:48 PM

This is sure a tough decision on both. Rick has done some great things and sure laid some egg's also. Not sure there has been anyone much better at finding some diamonds in the rough than Rick and his team, but they sure have missed on some picks and the Offensive line is a wreck and thats on him. Maybe it is time to look a different direction.

As for Zim, that's a tough call. I don't think the game has passed Zim at all. Great football mind. However I do think Father time may be catching up to him. An NFL head coaching job is quite demanding and it appears to me, it may be taking its toll on him and we are seeing that play out on the field. Would really like to see us have a HC that actually retires and is not fired. Alas that is as likely to happen as a Super Bowl.

11-20-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote: @FSUVike said:
I have a problem with the whole "Defense isn't the problem" narrative.

Why? Smith, Rhodes, Waynes, Hughes, Alexander, Barr, Kendricks. That's 7 first or second round picks. And Griff and Hunter were 3rd round picks. Plus FA signings like Joseph and Richardson.

Tons of Draft Capital and Coin to field a Unit that is not taking games over ala the Bears. And Chicago apparently didn't get the memo that the League legislated Defense out of the game.

No pass from me. The Team pushed the majority of their chips into the pile betting on a great Defense that could maybe be Elite/All Time. The results have been anything but that. And that rests solely on Mike Zimmer's shoulders.

Who on that D is playing at an All Pro Level besides Hunter? Lotta big names that are imo underperforming.

In years like these I always wrestle with how much of that is the scheme/coach vs players?