Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ suncoastvike said:
There were time that pressure on the QB disappeared. Not just low sacks but no pressure. It was evident in the last 6 quarters of the playoffs. Pressure=sacks=turnovers. Griffen wasn't 100% that hurt. Maybe with Griff, Hunter and now Richardson the pressure will produce more turnovers. I get that staying in your lane and turning a 3rd an 6 into a 4th and 2 is good fundamental football. Pic 6 is good fun football...period.
that pick six makes highlight reels alright, but what you dont see are the 10 points that that player gives up due to gambling on getting that pick 6. yes they could use more pressure and it will lead to more turnovers, but I wouldnt want a defense to be sacrificed in the name of a splash play... 13-3 was no fluke, its sound football for the most part.
I agree. I guess what was missing for me was that throat stomping. When you got a team on the ropes. Let the guys loose some. That's when the pic 6 is a back breaker. Insted we backed off too much and got nail biters. I would never complain about 13-3. You're right it worked.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
It's an interesting question, but I don't think you can point solely at Zimmer's scheme and his emphasis on everyone "doing their job" and "not farming someone else's crops". You might think that is the case if you just look at this past season... but check out largely the same defense in 2016 that ranked top 5 in most of the major categories.
Takeaways: 27 (Tied for 7th)
Interceptions: 14 (Tied for 12th)
Fumble Recoveries: 13 (Tied for 4th)
Sacks: 41 (5th)
Defensive TDs: 4 (only 3 other teams had more with 5 total)
Those numbers and rankings look pretty damn good and what you would expect from a top 5 defense. I think the decrease this past season is a combination of things... the lack of a pass rush in the 2nd half of the season... some dumb luck and the quality of opponents we faced... the most dominant 3rd down defense we've seen in almost 20 years... and the Vikings having the 3rd most 3-and-outs in the NFL (i.e. less drives and offensive plays).
You can sometimes get more turnovers if you give your players more freedom to make plays on defense, but at what cost? More big plays? More yardage given up? More points given up? It's a slippery slope...
excellent point, it stands to reason that a team that doesnt give up many 1st downs and thusly is on the field for less plays per game wouldnt have as many opportunities for those types of plays.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ suncoastvike said:
There were time that pressure on the QB disappeared. Not just low sacks but no pressure. It was evident in the last 6 quarters of the playoffs. Pressure=sacks=turnovers. Griffen wasn't 100% that hurt. Maybe with Griff, Hunter and now Richardson the pressure will produce more turnovers. I get that staying in your lane and turning a 3rd an 6 into a 4th and 2 is good fundamental football. Pic 6 is good fun football...period.
that pick six makes highlight reels alright, but what you dont see are the 10 points that that player gives up due to gambling on getting that pick 6. yes they could use more pressure and it will lead to more turnovers, but I wouldnt want a defense to be sacrificed in the name of a splash play... 13-3 was no fluke, its sound football for the most part.
I agree. I guess what was missing for me was that throat stomping. When you got a team on the ropes. Let the guys loose some. That's when the pic 6 is a back breaker. Insted we backed off too much and got nail biters. I would never complain about 13-3. You're right it worked.
perhaps its the lack of depth on defense at certain positions that Zim didnt want to let the opposition exploit by leaving them on the field for more opportunities? I am sure there is some geek with an algorithm to explain it all and thats why they do what they do when they do it.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
It's an interesting question, but I don't think you can point solely at Zimmer's scheme and his emphasis on everyone "doing their job" and "not farming someone else's crops". You might think that is the case if you just look at this past season... but check out largely the same defense in 2016 that ranked top 5 in most of the major categories.
Takeaways: 27 (Tied for 7th)
Interceptions: 14 (Tied for 12th)
Fumble Recoveries: 13 (Tied for 4th)
Sacks: 41 (5th)
Defensive TDs: 4 (only 3 other teams had more with 5 total)
Those numbers and rankings look pretty damn good and what you would expect from a top 5 defense. I think the decrease this past season is a combination of things... the lack of a pass rush in the 2nd half of the season... some dumb luck and the quality of opponents we faced... the most dominant 3rd down defense we've seen in almost 20 years... and the Vikings having the 3rd most 3-and-outs in the NFL (i.e. less drives and offensive plays).
You can sometimes get more turnovers if you give your players more freedom to make plays on defense, but at what cost? More big plays? More yardage given up? More points given up? It's a slippery slope...
I was thinking this as well. And that year showed the folly of looking for that. As our offense was struggling, the D carried the day for the first 5 games to a 5-0 start. Then against Philly, our D provided 2 huge INTs but failed to get them into the endzone and the offense came away with 0 points off them. Then the oblong ball started bouncing the other way and our D couldn't carry the offense and we went into a freefall.
Bottom line, defensive splash plays are the result of 2 things. 1. Gambling 2. Chance. Depending on either isn't a sure bet (see what I did there?)
Remember when the story got out that the players weren't buying into Zimmer's system for a bit and the defense started suffering?
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
Quote: @TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking... You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.
The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.
The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking... You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.
The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.
The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...
I've been very hard on Zimmer's defense after the last 6 quarters of the playoffs. I do try to put it in perspective. The depth was not a great as maybe I thought. They were kinda gassed maybe?? Having played 5 of the last 8 regular season games on the road. Some very challenging road trips in there as well. I think their depth should be better this year IF they stay healthy. I would hope they can even sign Mychal Kendricks. Some think that would mean they let Barr leave. I'm just thinking Barr playing on a contract season and the Kendricks brothers all together. If even just this year. With Richardson added in. WOW That's the kind of depth that wouldn't run out of gas. Wishful thinking on my part probably.
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