Sith Lords? lol
Speaking in absolutes? you got the wrong guy. I am a analyst nature and by trade. I naturally tend to gather data and chew on it and guess at a logical outcome. Its guesstimating. Not much of it is absolute.
Take a look at T Bros post above me. I also consider that the Vikings themselves wanted to keep Berger. I was never a big fan of Berger and didnt consider him an elite lineman. Maybe you do. But if the Vikings wanted him to stick around that badly it doesnt say much for the guys behind him does it.
By most measures the Vikings do not have elite offensive lineman. I dont know why this is so hard for fans to hear. It doesnt mean they wont have them someday. But it certainly does not seem to be a priority. How can it when it has been a problem since TJack was running for his life every down while the fans screamed how crappy he was. Do you remember how beat to hell Favre was? How can it be a priority when they select a #3-4 CB instead of a starting lineman in the first round especially when they need 2-3 at a minimum just to remain a slightly below average bunch?
I think they could easily expect Isidora to step in as the RG after a year in the program. They have seen him every day.
So it might be a line of:
Reiff, Easton (full year playing at LG under his belt), Elflein (2nd year), Isidora (first year starting), Remmers.
Potentially someone pushes Remmers for the starting RT position.
I really like Isidora and Collins/Hill at tackle spots eventually.
The performance drop-off when either Elflien or Easton went out of the starting lineup was noticeable.
Sliding Remmers around did not produce a better result, but with Hill at RT the OL was passably good, until they played Philly's DL.
I think many of Us saw that performance drop-off, and were pounding the table for more ham to shore up the middle or even boost it (Hernandez).
On paper, the OL looks as strong as it has to me in many, many years. I think O'Neill plays a fair amount First Year because he is a bit of a physical freak, like Danielle Hunter. O'Neill is blessed where Reiff is not, and vice versa. They compliment each other pretty well.
I'm expecting Hughes to play a lot of snaps, also, and be a part of a regular rotation week to week.
In fact, this hand-wringing about our draftees not being ready enough is ill-founded. I don't see why Jayln Holmes can't be used in a similar fashion to Hunter in sub-packages. He MAY get Jaleel Johnsoned and ride a lot of pine, but I think his length, strength and pursuit speed will get him on the field part-time as well.
That brings us to our new Move TE, Tyler Conklin. Cousins and Conklin are gonna connect for a few dozen passes this year. I don't know how many, but his ball skills, and movement are similar to Goedert, and I think he projects as a regular target when Defenses are keying a little too much on Dalvin Cook.
True developmental guys litter the remainder of the draft. The UDFA WR group has some terrific athleticism and raw talent in Foreman, Robertson, Weineke, and Badet.
Aruna is a physical beast with no clue what he is doing yet. But, he has rare traits, and a terrific attitude. He's known about football for what? About 5 years now?
Quote: @"twgerber" said:
I think they could easily expect Isidora to step in as the RG after a year in the program. They have seen him every day.
So it might be a line of:
Reiff, Easton (full year playing at LG under his belt), Elflein (2nd year), Isidora (first year starting), Remmers.
Potentially someone pushes Remmers for the starting RT position.
I really like Isidora and Collins/Hill at tackle spots eventually.
Pretty logical and I do think Isadora could be a surprise starter at RG.
I also like Aviante Collins and the best case would be that he impresses at RT. Rashod Hill is smart and versatile but didn't handle fast pass rushers very well; Collins is very athletic and could be an upgrade.
Two years from now, if our starting OTs were O'Neill and Collins, we could have outstanding pass protectors bookending the line...
I still don't think the Vikings wanted to draft a G/C in the first round. If they are honest about the plan to move Remmers inside, they need a RT. So after McGlinchey and Miller were picked, who was left at OT but Connor Williams?
If Remmers does move to G, does anyone else think he could be this year's Alex Boone - last year's free agent signing, but asked to take a pay cut to stay as a backup?
One still-available UFA offensive linemen I wonder about is Greg Robinson. Good grief, what went wrong? Any chance Vikings would let him try to compete at RT??
Quote: @"Jor-El" said:
@"twgerber" said:
I think they could easily expect Isidora to step in as the RG after a year in the program. They have seen him every day.
So it might be a line of:
Reiff, Easton (full year playing at LG under his belt), Elflein (2nd year), Isidora (first year starting), Remmers.
Potentially someone pushes Remmers for the starting RT position.
I really like Isidora and Collins/Hill at tackle spots eventually.
Pretty logical and I do think Isadora could be a surprise starter at RG.
I also like Aviante Collins and the best case would be that he impresses at RT. Rashod Hill is smart and versatile but didn't handle fast pass rushers very well; Collins is very athletic and could be an upgrade.
Two years from now, if our starting OTs were O'Neill and Collins, we could have outstanding pass protectors bookending the line...
I still don't think the Vikings wanted to draft a G/C in the first round. If they are honest about the plan to move Remmers inside, they need a RT. So after McGlinchey and Miller were picked, who was left at OT but Connor Williams?
If Remmers does move to G, does anyone else think he could be this year's Alex Boone - last year's free agent signing, but asked to take a pay cut to stay as a backup?
One still-available UFA offensive linemen I wonder about is Greg Robinson. Good grief, what went wrong? Any chance Vikings would let him try to compete at RT??
I think people are a little hard on Hill, he is was a LT that was forced to play RT. I have to think for a young player switching from LT to RT would be a bitch, add in the speed aspect and its a recipe for disaster. sure he got practice reps, but we all know that isnt the same as live fire. I wish these coaches would let a guy get established at one position instead of playing the L/R musical chair game they did with Hill and Clemmings before that. Sirles was another guy that would have likely been a solid starter if they didnt want him to back up every position on the line.
Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year. The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game. Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role.
We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.
We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil.
We have a talented and deep roster. No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all. Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss. But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber. So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT. Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT. Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.
After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG. That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.
Quote: @"minny65" said:
Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year. The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game. Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role.
We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.
We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil.
We have a talented and deep roster. No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all. Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss. But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber. So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT. Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT. Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.
After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG. That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.
You are right of course about continuity. I hope they do step it up. If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance. The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already. I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.
Quote: @"Poiple" said:
@"minny65" said:
Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year. The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game. Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role.
We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.
We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil.
We have a talented and deep roster. No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all. Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss. But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber. So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT. Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT. Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.
After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG. That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.
You are right of course about continuity. I hope they do step it up. If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance. The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already. I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.
For vets like our Tackles we might have seen their best last year and I was happy with both. For second year starters like Easton and Elflein I expect a lot better in terms of play mostly because of communication/repetition/continuity as mentioned above.
Even Remmers at Tackle improved as the year went on IMO. Early last year I noticed some missed communication on blocking between Remmers and the TE's in terms of blocking on twists etc. Most of the time it makes the RT look really bad but it is not always on them. So again, the communication can improve which equals better pickups.
The communication between the tackles to Guards - specifically with Hill at RT was very bad - some posters mention just how bad Hill was against the Eagles but he was abused by Hayward (Saints) in our miracle win. I rewatched the second half last week and he was a turnstile. Case was the most pressured QB in the playoffs. The forced OL shuffle, due to injuries, was not effective and was a big reason we lost so handily to the Eagles and if not for Diggs would have been a big part of the blame for against the Saints.
Quote: @"minny65" said:
@"Poiple" said:
@"minny65" said:
Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year. The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game. Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role.
We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.
We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil.
We have a talented and deep roster. No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all. Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss. But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber. So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT. Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT. Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.
After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG. That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.
You are right of course about continuity. I hope they do step it up. If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance. The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already. I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.
For vets like our Tackles we might have seen their best last year and I was happy with both. For second year starters like Easton and Elflein I expect a lot better in terms of play mostly because of communication/repetition/continuity as mentioned above.
Even Remmers at Tackle improved as the year went on IMO. Early last year I noticed some missed communication on blocking between Remmers and the TE's in terms of blocking on twists etc. Most of the time it makes the RT look really bad but it is not always on them. So again, the communication can improve which equals better pickups.
The communication between the tackles to Guards - specifically with Hill at RT was very bad - some posters mention just how bad Hill was against the Eagles but he was abused by Hayward (Saints) in our miracle win. I rewatched the second half last week and he was a turnstile. Case was the most pressured QB in the playoffs. The forced OL shuffle, due to injuries, was not effective and was a big reason we lost so handily to the Eagles and if not for Diggs would have been a big part of the blame for against the Saints.
we have had poor communication on the right side of our line for quite a while, not saying it was Berger, but hopefully they can get that fixed and soon.
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"minny65" said:
@"Poiple" said:
@"minny65" said:
Another year of continuity for potentially 4 of our 5 starting OL is usually a big plus from year to year. The Communication along the OL blocking schemes is probably the most difficult in the game. Another year of experience from Elflein calling the formations and adjustments along with a second year of Easton next to Reiff are all hope for overall improvement without even adding/knowing who is going to step up in Berger's role.
We have a ton of competition for the RG spot with Isadora, draft pick and two vets all vying in a crowded field that we all hope someone clearly emerges as the answer.
We also now have depth at the Tackle positions with Hill and O'Neil.
We have a talented and deep roster. No doubt that the OL shuffle last playoffs were not good at all. Hill was bad at RT in both the win and the loss. But in the past spot duty he looked pretty good at LT albeit not against playoff caliber. So maybe Spelly views O'Neil as the depth we didn't have at RT and Hill at LT. Hill gave up the most pressures in the playoffs in two games at RT. Isadora must not have been a better LG backup to us moving Remmers there but I only saw adequate play from Remmers at LG after a good season at RT.
After all the talk of shuffling Remmers and finding a RT I think we are going to end up with the same 4 starters playing where they played and a new RG. That continuity is a very good thing for an OL that took a big step up last year to slightly above average IMO from bottom 5 the years before.
You are right of course about continuity. I hope they do step it up. If they can then they stand a chance of repeating last seasons performance. The problem is that they are still the same guys and may be playing at their peak already. I think we all look forward to seeing which version we are getting.
For vets like our Tackles we might have seen their best last year and I was happy with both. For second year starters like Easton and Elflein I expect a lot better in terms of play mostly because of communication/repetition/continuity as mentioned above.
Even Remmers at Tackle improved as the year went on IMO. Early last year I noticed some missed communication on blocking between Remmers and the TE's in terms of blocking on twists etc. Most of the time it makes the RT look really bad but it is not always on them. So again, the communication can improve which equals better pickups.
The communication between the tackles to Guards - specifically with Hill at RT was very bad - some posters mention just how bad Hill was against the Eagles but he was abused by Hayward (Saints) in our miracle win. I rewatched the second half last week and he was a turnstile. Case was the most pressured QB in the playoffs. The forced OL shuffle, due to injuries, was not effective and was a big reason we lost so handily to the Eagles and if not for Diggs would have been a big part of the blame for against the Saints.
we have had poor communication on the right side of our line for quite a while, not saying it was Berger, but hopefully they can get that fixed and soon.
A lot of poor pick-ups/communication between Remmers and the TE's as well. Then saw it with Hill in the playoffs with both G and TE's. I thought Remmers communication improved as the year went on and I am all for keeping him at RT with another year to improve in that area along with the TE's and RG's - it's on them as well.
|
