Quote: @minny65 said:
Barr is working on his 5th year option and is getting over 12 million, which is way too much. Spotrac predicts future value for Barr of about 8 million per year.
Barr, on paper, when you look at recent LB'ers similar that have been signed does not have their production. According to just about everyone Barr is used by Zimmer in a unique role so his stats are difficult to compare to other 4-3 OLB's.
Anyway, we have another full season to judge and evaluate all these guys. A few might disappoint and a few might raise their game?
If Diggs can stay healthy again and produce then he will be a high priority, but what if he gets dinged again and misses multiple games?
Kendricks to me is the most likely to be locked up.
Hunter played well..not great, and didn't seize the starting role last year but this year he might? Again another year to evaluate and see if he can be an all around DE or just a pass rush rotational guy. He is so young and raw so I think we will be looking at resigning him.
Don't forget Easton will be a free agent as well. Not that I see him as being a lock but again another season will answer a lot.
In order: Kendricks first priority, probably then Diggs, then Hunter
Barr is an anomaly - he was not great two years ago and has missed a ton of tackles over the years but improved last year. I would not early extend Barr right now, as some have proposed to cut back on the 12 million. But he needs to have a big year to earn a second contract in the 8-10 per year range. If he doesn't step up then we could use that Cap savings to put towards Kendricks, Diggs, Hunter, Easton if they all step up.
I would try to resign Hunter now. I think his value is probably low as it will be.
Kendricks is critical to the defense IMO. Emotionally and on the field.
Barr is way more valuable to Zimmer's D than most can see IMO. Hopefully that keeps his price down a bit, but if he were turned loose, his price would skyrocket. His size and range are so critical to the D. I would rank the importance starting with Joseph and then Barr and Smith.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
IMO Diggs is the most interesting situation. Prior to the playoffs, I thought it was very clear he was no longer our #1 receiver and in 3 years had not established himself beyond the 2nd tier of NFL WRs. He has his moments, but also gets pretty quiet for stretches of each season. Had a monster game against Tampa in week 3 but never had another +100 yard or multi-TD game last year. Good WR, not great.
But then...THE MIRACLE.
Awesome catch and play, no doubt. It got an amazing amount of publicity, and so did Diggs. Now, he might think he's in Odell Beckham's class and maybe wants a top 10 WR contract. I have had people on this board tell me that Diggs deserves $12M per year. I wouldn't do it; I think that type of WR needs to take over the game at least 4-5 times a season and Diggs doesn't.
If Diggs wants a huge deal right now, I would hold off. I suppose he might build on the excitement of the Saints victory and have a monster season and the Vikings will regret not locking him up before this season. I just think he'll have another year of about 70 catches and 900 yards.
Interesting is a good word. I would let him play it out. If he stays healthy and has another consistent year, then he is worth a decent contract. But not a top 10 IMO.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ minny65 said:
Barr is working on his 5th year option and is getting over 12 million, which is way too much. Spotrac predicts future value for Barr of about 8 million per year.
Barr, on paper, when you look at recent LB'ers similar that have been signed does not have their production. According to just about everyone Barr is used by Zimmer in a unique role so his stats are difficult to compare to other 4-3 OLB's.
Anyway, we have another full season to judge and evaluate all these guys. A few might disappoint and a few might raise their game?
If Diggs can stay healthy again and produce then he will be a high priority, but what if he gets dinged again and misses multiple games?
Kendricks to me is the most likely to be locked up.
Hunter played well..not great, and didn't seize the starting role last year but this year he might? Again another year to evaluate and see if he can be an all around DE or just a pass rush rotational guy. He is so young and raw so I think we will be looking at resigning him.
Don't forget Easton will be a free agent as well. Not that I see him as being a lock but again another season will answer a lot.
In order: Kendricks first priority, probably then Diggs, then Hunter
Barr is an anomaly - he was not great two years ago and has missed a ton of tackles over the years but improved last year. I would not early extend Barr right now, as some have proposed to cut back on the 12 million. But he needs to have a big year to earn a second contract in the 8-10 per year range. If he doesn't step up then we could use that Cap savings to put towards Kendricks, Diggs, Hunter, Easton if they all step up.
I would try to resign Hunter now. I think his value is probably low as it will be.
Kendricks is critical to the defense IMO. Emotionally and on the field.
Barr is way more valuable to Zimmer's D than most can see IMO. Hopefully that keeps his price down a bit, but if he were turned loose, his price would skyrocket. His size and range are so critical to the D. I would rank the importance starting with Joseph and then Barr and Smith.
Yea, that is a good thought on trying to resign Hunter now, worth a shot anyway.
I would also entertain Kendricks now as well but I don't think we have the space right now for more then one extension.
Barr and Diggs I like having another season to look and evaluate.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Jor-El said:
IMO Diggs is the most interesting situation. Prior to the playoffs, I thought it was very clear he was no longer our #1 receiver and in 3 years had not established himself beyond the 2nd tier of NFL WRs. He has his moments, but also gets pretty quiet for stretches of each season. Had a monster game against Tampa in week 3 but never had another +100 yard or multi-TD game last year. Good WR, not great.
But then... THE MIRACLE.
Awesome catch and play, no doubt. It got an amazing amount of publicity, and so did Diggs. Now, he might think he's in Odell Beckham's class and maybe wants a top 10 WR contract. I have had people on this board tell me that Diggs deserves $12M per year. I wouldn't do it; I think that type of WR needs to take over the game at least 4-5 times a season and Diggs doesn't.
If Diggs wants a huge deal right now, I would hold off. I suppose he might build on the excitement of the Saints victory and have a monster season and the Vikings will regret not locking him up before this season. I just think he'll have another year of about 70 catches and 900 yards.
Interesting is a good word. I would let him play it out. If he stays healthy and has another consistent year, then he is worth a decent contract. But not a top 10 IMO.
Diggs is a top 10 WR when he is on the field. His stats are insane in the games he plays.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ StickyBun said:
Kendricks makes the most plays of the guys you have listed. I like Hunter, but....less tackles, less assists and less sacks this year playing as a starter than last year when he played less snaps. I know he's only 23 years old, but I think there's a book out on him now and he needs to evolve and grow. He's still not using his speed/power to get low and flat, beat the tackle and make the shortest line to the QB. He can't just bull rush or take these wide loops. He's got the waist of a big WR, not some lead in his ass which would come in handy sometimes.
I think all of you are underestimating what Hunter does. If you adjust for snap counts he led the team in run stop %, QB pressures, QB hurries, QB hits, and tackling %. Everson picked up more sacks but if you watch them a lot of times it was due to pressure pushing the pocket his way. The Vikings defense isn't built to sack the QB, its built to pressure the QB. So the sack numbers are going to be inconsistent. Outside of Myles Garrett, Hunter is probably the 3rd best pass rusher in the NFL under 25. You don't let that walk out the door.
Don't want him to walk, but the Viking's pass rush fell off the table the last 6 games, Zimmer even admits to it. Like I said, I like him, but Kendricks is a much more productive player. I guess I'm not following you on snap counts....Hunter had to have had a higher snap count last year than he did the year before but his productivity on tackles, assists and sacks were all down?
I don't want to lose any of these guys but one thing you guys aren't factoring in is that if you take Diggs away then you have Thielen, Rudy and a bunch of unknowns. I know Thielen and Rudy are good, but that's putting a lot of pressure on 2 receivers. Our best pass catching RB just left in free agency and so did one of our depth WRs who always contributed when given an opportunity. Yes, we can draft someone this year but to lose Diggs would take away half the field. He's an outstanding route runner and has excellent hands and feet. He's had his injury issues I will concede, but if we let him walk I challenge you to find another guy like him who could start immediately and contribute as much without paying top dollar...and that's going to leave a huge void in our offense and 1 less experienced and savvy target for our big shiny new QB to throw to.
Edit: Unless we get lucky and draft another Randy Moss (yeah, right) how can you not make extending Diggs a priority? Diggs + Thielen + Rudolph + Cook is much > Thielen + Rudolph + Cook +????? Treadwell maybe?? Yikes...
Quote: @prairieghost said:
I don't want to lose any of these guys but one thing you guys aren't factoring in is that if you take Diggs away then you have Thielen, Rudy and a bunch of unknowns. I know Thielen and Rudy are good, but that's putting a lot of pressure on 2 receivers. Our best pass catching RB just left in free agency and so did one of our depth WRs who always contributed when given an opportunity. Yes, we can draft someone this year but to lose Diggs would take away half the field. He's an outstanding route runner and has excellent hands and feet. He's had his injury issues I will concede, but if we let him walk I challenge you to find another guy like him who could start immediately and contribute as much without paying top dollar...and that's going to leave a huge void in our offense and 1 less experienced and savvy target for our big shiny new QB to throw to.
I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest. He is the #2 WR. Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?
Quote: @greediron said:
@ prairieghost said:
I don't want to lose any of these guys but one thing you guys aren't factoring in is that if you take Diggs away then you have Thielen, Rudy and a bunch of unknowns. I know Thielen and Rudy are good, but that's putting a lot of pressure on 2 receivers. Our best pass catching RB just left in free agency and so did one of our depth WRs who always contributed when given an opportunity. Yes, we can draft someone this year but to lose Diggs would take away half the field. He's an outstanding route runner and has excellent hands and feet. He's had his injury issues I will concede, but if we let him walk I challenge you to find another guy like him who could start immediately and contribute as much without paying top dollar...and that's going to leave a huge void in our offense and 1 less experienced and savvy target for our big shiny new QB to throw to.
I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest. He is the #2 WR. Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?
You think that Diggs is a and the #2 WR?
umm, yes, is that okay?
Quote: @Canthony said:
@ greediron said:
I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest. He is the #2 WR. Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?
You think that Diggs is a and the #2 WR?
Quote: @greediron said:
@ prairieghost said:
I don't want to lose any of these guys but one thing you guys aren't factoring in is that if you take Diggs away then you have Thielen, Rudy and a bunch of unknowns. I know Thielen and Rudy are good, but that's putting a lot of pressure on 2 receivers. Our best pass catching RB just left in free agency and so did one of our depth WRs who always contributed when given an opportunity. Yes, we can draft someone this year but to lose Diggs would take away half the field. He's an outstanding route runner and has excellent hands and feet. He's had his injury issues I will concede, but if we let him walk I challenge you to find another guy like him who could start immediately and contribute as much without paying top dollar...and that's going to leave a huge void in our offense and 1 less experienced and savvy target for our big shiny new QB to throw to.
I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest. He is the #2 WR. Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?
True enough, but I thought we had a HC and DL coach who are probably one of the best D coach combos in the league at developing players? I'd roll the dice on Zim/Patterson et al getting more out of draft picks and developmental guys I guess.
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