Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
as far as in house guys stepping up, you want to risk a season on it? if they werent heavy contributors last year I would be looking for somebody serviceable in FA as back up plan to at least challenge them. How much did we really get out of our reserve OG, DTs, and CBs this last year? I didnt see enough to tab any of them as a lock to start full time. I certainly wouldnt risk a 30 million dollar contract to cousins on it.
im curious, you're not willing to risk other positions, but you're willing to risk QB? arguably the most important position in all of sports?
not saying cousins is not without risk, but comparing risks between teddy/sam vs Kirk, 99.9% of people in the know would say it's not even close?
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ FSUVike said:
So let's get someone cheap, sign a bunch of FAs and get blown out in the NFCCG again because the Offense can't keep up.
I'm sorry but this Defense isn't EVER going to be in the same class as the Broncos or Ravens Units that carried them to a Super Bowl.
And that starts with Zimmer. He coaches to make you earn every yard and keep you out of the Endzone. He's not coaching to sack you or turn you over on every play. That's too.aggressive and risky for his style.
No matter who gets inked this team will not win it all solely on Defense. But having a Franchise QB and an Offense that can go toe to toe with NO, Philly and NE changes the script.
LBs and DEs can be replaced. Zimmer did it in Dallas and Cincinnati. But the Boys had a Franchise QB and the Bungles did not, hence the vastly different levels of success in the postseason.
If you could look into the future and tell me Teddy will become a Tier 2 QB I'd be all over that as you could keep adding pieces to the Defense to at least make it harder for the Elite Offenses to score.
Too big of a risk for my heart to bear, although I think that will be what happens after the Jets or Broncos throw crazy money at Kirk.
i read a rumor this morning that the bungles might shop andy dalton who has 2 years left at about 17 million per season. I would rather see what they would want than to spend 30 on Cousins.
I know many see his positives, but I dont see any value with him at that kind of money. 22-24 yes. I think its absurd to say that since brees rogers and stafford are getting 30+ that is now the market for a starting QB because they IMO are significantly better QBs game in game out and all game long than cousins has shown. I dont think cousins is the type of qb that really puts a team on his back and carries them and the redskins w/l record kind of bears that out. sure its not all on him, but rogers shoulders a pretty shitty roster every year and is usually an nfc favorite every year. his arm is good enough, he seems to be able to make all the throws, but i question his decision making far to often. lots of QB in the leagues history that throw for a ton of yards but end up having blah careers because they just couldnt play at that level when their team needed them to, or they didnt know when to take the sack or throw it away.
Living in Michigan, I see Stafford a lot, and while he has a stronger arm, I see a lot of the same game out of him as I do in Cousins. Both very competitive, with some of the it factor, haven't had great skill players the last year, with the better receivers in Detroit. Both teams had bad defenses and couldn't hold leads and forced QB's to take risks down the stretch leading to turnovers.
so then my question is, if these next tier QBs like stafford need quality supporting casts, should they really be in the top tier pay wise in the league? I say no. i read that rogers next contract is supposed to be about 32 per year, does anybody honestly believe that cousins is only 7% less of a QB than rogers? because that is what is being thrown out pay wise. i am not really against any 1 QB, just those QBs at what price. I have to see value in the guy and think that he will likely improve not stay the same or regress. I think cousins will likely be better in minny that he was in dc, but why should he get paid more based on what people think he will do, isnt it the supporting cast that will elevate his play? we saw how much better keenum was and I dont think keenum and cousins are really even close in terms of level of QB based on arm strength and accuracy. if some other team wants to over pay for a QB, let them, we will find our guy and still be able to continue to build a better team around them if we dont spend stupid like.
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
as far as in house guys stepping up, you want to risk a season on it? if they werent heavy contributors last year I would be looking for somebody serviceable in FA as back up plan to at least challenge them. How much did we really get out of our reserve OG, DTs, and CBs this last year? I didnt see enough to tab any of them as a lock to start full time. I certainly wouldnt risk a 30 million dollar contract to cousins on it.
im curious, you're not willing to risk other positions, but you're willing to risk QB? arguably the most important position in all of sports?
not saying cousins is not without risk, but comparing risks between teddy/sam vs Kirk, 99.9% of people in the know would say it's not even close?
i put value on guys based on what I think they can do and with the known risks associated. I would take Sam or Teddy at 10-14 over Cousins at 28-30 all day long. i would take Cousins at 24 over Case at 20-22 all day long. im not necessarily pro or neg any 1 guy, its about getting the right guy at the right price and not feeling that we need to overspend just because other teams are desperate to sell tickets, or GMs are trying to cling to their jobs. top dollars should go to top players, brees, rogers, brady, guys that can take a team to the playoffs even without good supporting casts. 30 million is top money and I dont think cousins is a top tier guy.... a good QB, but not in that other class, less risk than Teddy or Sam yes, but not enough less risk to justify an extra 15 million per year...IMO
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
as far as in house guys stepping up, you want to risk a season on it? if they werent heavy contributors last year I would be looking for somebody serviceable in FA as back up plan to at least challenge them. How much did we really get out of our reserve OG, DTs, and CBs this last year? I didnt see enough to tab any of them as a lock to start full time. I certainly wouldnt risk a 30 million dollar contract to cousins on it.
im curious, you're not willing to risk other positions, but you're willing to risk QB? arguably the most important position in all of sports?
not saying cousins is not without risk, but comparing risks between teddy/sam vs Kirk, 99.9% of people in the know would say it's not even close?
i put value on guys based on what I think they can do and with the known risks associated. I would take Sam or Teddy at 10-14 over Cousins at 28-30 all day long. i would take Cousins at 24 over Case at 20-22 all day long. im not necessarily pro or neg any 1 guy, its about getting the right guy at the right price and not feeling that we need to overspend just because other teams are desperate to sell tickets, or GMs are trying to cling to their jobs. top dollars should go to top players, brees, rogers, brady, guys that can take a team to the playoffs even without good supporting casts. 30 million is top money and I dont think cousins is a top tier guy.... a good QB, but not in that other class, less risk than Teddy or Sam yes, but not enough less risk to justify an extra 15 million per year...IMO
only thing i would debate on that is the notion of top pay.
pretty much if you have a top 15 QB his next contract will be highest in NFL, because of the money coming into the NFL and rising cap spaces... and QB's are hardest commodity to find in the NFL
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
as far as in house guys stepping up, you want to risk a season on it? if they werent heavy contributors last year I would be looking for somebody serviceable in FA as back up plan to at least challenge them. How much did we really get out of our reserve OG, DTs, and CBs this last year? I didnt see enough to tab any of them as a lock to start full time. I certainly wouldnt risk a 30 million dollar contract to cousins on it.
im curious, you're not willing to risk other positions, but you're willing to risk QB? arguably the most important position in all of sports?
not saying cousins is not without risk, but comparing risks between teddy/sam vs Kirk, 99.9% of people in the know would say it's not even close?
i put value on guys based on what I think they can do and with the known risks associated. I would take Sam or Teddy at 10-14 over Cousins at 28-30 all day long. i would take Cousins at 24 over Case at 20-22 all day long. im not necessarily pro or neg any 1 guy, its about getting the right guy at the right price and not feeling that we need to overspend just because other teams are desperate to sell tickets, or GMs are trying to cling to their jobs. top dollars should go to top players, brees, rogers, brady, guys that can take a team to the playoffs even without good supporting casts. 30 million is top money and I dont think cousins is a top tier guy.... a good QB, but not in that other class, less risk than Teddy or Sam yes, but not enough less risk to justify an extra 15 million per year...IMO
only thing i would debate on that is the notion of top pay.
pretty much if you have a top 15 QB his next contract will be highest in NFL, because of the money coming into the NFL and rising cap spaces... and QB's are hardest commodity to find in the NFL
perhaps, however I read that Brees next deal is likely in the 28 million dollar range. maybe it will maybe it wont, but it makes no sense to me to take this expanding cap and send it all at one position if the player isnt worthy of it just because thats what other teams want to do. cousins value is as high as it is imo because the skins have been franchising him for 2 years, was he worth what they paid... IMO no, but now he gets viewed as a guy in that category by some just because that is what he has been making and thats what they think he will be demanding. I see cousins as great value at 20, break even at 25, and anything above that we lose. i want to see a contract where we win... even a little which is why i see him as a 22-24 guy if I were GM, and thats really what we are talking about on here, what we would do if we were the guy pulling the strings right?
I know I would be a lot more certain of anything if I had the information that Rick does. Sam and Teddy are really only question marks to those of us on the outside, the team knows exactly where the risks lie with them.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ FSUVike said:
So let's get someone cheap, sign a bunch of FAs and get blown out in the NFCCG again because the Offense can't keep up.
I'm sorry but this Defense isn't EVER going to be in the same class as the Broncos or Ravens Units that carried them to a Super Bowl.
And that starts with Zimmer. He coaches to make you earn every yard and keep you out of the Endzone. He's not coaching to sack you or turn you over on every play. That's too.aggressive and risky for his style.
No matter who gets inked this team will not win it all solely on Defense. But having a Franchise QB and an Offense that can go toe to toe with NO, Philly and NE changes the script.
LBs and DEs can be replaced. Zimmer did it in Dallas and Cincinnati. But the Boys had a Franchise QB and the Bungles did not, hence the vastly different levels of success in the postseason.
If you could look into the future and tell me Teddy will become a Tier 2 QB I'd be all over that as you could keep adding pieces to the Defense to at least make it harder for the Elite Offenses to score.
Too big of a risk for my heart to bear, although I think that will be what happens after the Jets or Broncos throw crazy money at Kirk.
i read a rumor this morning that the bungles might shop andy dalton who has 2 years left at about 17 million per season. I would rather see what they would want than to spend 30 on Cousins.
I know many see his positives, but I dont see any value with him at that kind of money. 22-24 yes. I think its absurd to say that since brees rogers and stafford are getting 30+ that is now the market for a starting QB because they IMO are significantly better QBs game in game out and all game long than cousins has shown. I dont think cousins is the type of qb that really puts a team on his back and carries them and the redskins w/l record kind of bears that out. sure its not all on him, but rogers shoulders a pretty shitty roster every year and is usually an nfc favorite every year. his arm is good enough, he seems to be able to make all the throws, but i question his decision making far to often. lots of QB in the leagues history that throw for a ton of yards but end up having blah careers because they just couldnt play at that level when their team needed them to, or they didnt know when to take the sack or throw it away.
Living in Michigan, I see Stafford a lot, and while he has a stronger arm, I see a lot of the same game out of him as I do in Cousins. Both very competitive, with some of the it factor, haven't had great skill players the last year, with the better receivers in Detroit. Both teams had bad defenses and couldn't hold leads and forced QB's to take risks down the stretch leading to turnovers.
so then my question is, if these next tier QBs like stafford need quality supporting casts, should they really be in the top tier pay wise in the league? I say no. i read that rogers next contract is supposed to be about 32 per year, does anybody honestly believe that cousins is only 7% less of a QB than rogers? because that is what is being thrown out pay wise. i am not really against any 1 QB, just those QBs at what price. I have to see value in the guy and think that he will likely improve not stay the same or regress. I think cousins will likely be better in minny that he was in dc, but why should he get paid more based on what people think he will do, isnt it the supporting cast that will elevate his play? we saw how much better keenum was and I dont think keenum and cousins are really even close in terms of level of QB based on arm strength and accuracy. if some other team wants to over pay for a QB, let them, we will find our guy and still be able to continue to build a better team around them if we dont spend stupid like.
They ALL need supporting casts. Where did the Packers go when Jordy Nelson went down and his other receivers were exposed as marginal. Rodgers I guess shouldn't get top tier money? Your argument that you have to see value in the guy and think he will likely improve and not regress. Then you go on to say that Cousins will likely be better in Minny than DC, but it's based on supporting cast so it really doesn't mean the QB is worth that much more... Well put Rodgers in Cleveland the last 10 years and lets compare numbers.
Further, Rodgers isn't a FA until 2020, so I'd like to know where you read he's going to get 32 million on his next deal. First of all he'll be 36, so who knows if he'll want to play, and if he does, I can guarantee that the market value won't be close to that number.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
The pay a franchise qb salary pool...
Brez & RS will have their cap management a little more challenging moving forward. Not saying it's crippling, they're too smart for that. But they will be more challenged with so much good, young D talent to sign.
I know Sam was getting some decent coin, but I dont think we've paid anyone $20mm+ since Bert.
True... but the Vikings had a cap hit of approximately 22.5 million with their 4 QBs last season. It didn't prevent us from signing Reiff, Remmers, Murray, and Newman in FA and handing out extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen. With 60+ million in cap space entering this offseason, the Vikings can definitely afford to pay a QB 25-27 million per year.
I'm not really worried about the prospect of paying a QB market rate. Brez is one of the best in the business at constructing contracts and managing cap space. It's insane to think that we signed Reiff and Remmers to big deals and handed out some big extensions to Rhodes, Joseph, and Griffen last season and we STILL have 60+ million in cap space...
We'll be all right.
if they jump on cousins like some are wanting them to, 27-30 is only going to cover your starter, you will still have a back up making 2-5 million (if they are worth a shit) and Sloter who is making about 600G. Lets say 30 million is the QB number for all 3, you need to leave a rookie pool of 5.5mill, so your 60 is down to 25 really quick. We have several areas of immediate need to cover in OG, DT, CB, and K, (maybe RB 2/3) lets say you get these done for about 10 on the cheap, more likely 15 million if you go for some quality, now we are at 10-15 million with the hopes of getting some of our 2019 studs locked down this year to ease the cap crunch down the road. how far does 10-15 million go in extending Hunter, Diggs, Barr, and Kendricks? and there is always that cushion money that Rick needs to hold back for emergency signings or other opportunities that might come available.
If Cousins is serious about wanting to go somewhere to win, I think you could get him for a lower number than that. The Vikings could construct his contract to have a larger cap hit this season and have it lower the next two seasons before ballooning up on the back end of the contract. They could also give him more guarantees than any other QB to date to sweeten the pot.
Also, I wouldn't discount some in-house guys stepping up at OG, DT, and CB. We don't have to fill all those spots with FAs. As far as extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr... we're projected to have 60+ million in cap space in 2019 as well. The Vikings will likely have those big money extensions kick in next season like they've done with Harrison Smith and others that have been extended in the last year of their deals. They'll get their signing bonus this year, but the big cap hits won't kick in until next year.
I'm far from a cap guru, but luckily Brez is... Spielman has said they've been budgeting for a market rate QB for this season. I'm sure they were anticipating that to be Teddy when they were looking at their projected cap situation because this would have been his 5th season. The knee injury obviously threw a monkey wrench into those plans, but luckily we have a couple in-house options to choose from and Cousins on the free agent market.
Let's just quit acting like paying a QB 25 million per year is going to hamstring us. It won't in the short-term. The only way it will is if the Vikings suck at drafting the next couple seasons.
as far as in house guys stepping up, you want to risk a season on it? if they werent heavy contributors last year I would be looking for somebody serviceable in FA as back up plan to at least challenge them. How much did we really get out of our reserve OG, DTs, and CBs this last year? I didnt see enough to tab any of them as a lock to start full time. I certainly wouldnt risk a 30 million dollar contract to cousins on it.
im curious, you're not willing to risk other positions, but you're willing to risk QB? arguably the most important position in all of sports?
not saying cousins is not without risk, but comparing risks between teddy/sam vs Kirk, 99.9% of people in the know would say it's not even close?
i put value on guys based on what I think they can do and with the known risks associated. I would take Sam or Teddy at 10-14 over Cousins at 28-30 all day long. i would take Cousins at 24 over Case at 20-22 all day long. im not necessarily pro or neg any 1 guy, its about getting the right guy at the right price and not feeling that we need to overspend just because other teams are desperate to sell tickets, or GMs are trying to cling to their jobs. top dollars should go to top players, brees, rogers, brady, guys that can take a team to the playoffs even without good supporting casts. 30 million is top money and I dont think cousins is a top tier guy.... a good QB, but not in that other class, less risk than Teddy or Sam yes, but not enough less risk to justify an extra 15 million per year...IMO
only thing i would debate on that is the notion of top pay.
pretty much if you have a top 15 QB his next contract will be highest in NFL, because of the money coming into the NFL and rising cap spaces... and QB's are hardest commodity to find in the NFL
I know I would be a lot more certain of anything if I had the information that Rick does. Sam and Teddy are really only question marks to those of us on the outside, the team knows exactly where the risks lie with them.
right, only the inside people know. but they have not offered them a contract extension, and Teddy was inactive when it mattered most (playoffs) meaning they trust Sam more than him at least in that point in time, both off long layovers.
i think if they didnt have question marks one of them would have been given an extension at this point? who the hell knows.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
There were 7 QBs with a cap hit of $20+ million last year. Throw in Manning and Luck, $19.7 million and $19.4 million respectively. Out of those 9 QBs, 2 made the playoffs (Newton and Ryan). Flacco, Cousins and Manning - no playoffs. Palmer, Tannehill, Rodgers and Luck all were out injured the majority of the year (no playoffs).
Just paying a QB $20+ million does not mean that the team is going to win.
QBs of teams that made the playoffs (QB - $ millions)
Ryan - 23.7
Newton - 20.1
Brees - 19
Roethlisberger - 18.2
Smith - 16.9
Brady - 14
Taylor - 9.7
Mariota - 6.6
Bortles - 6.5
Goff - 6.3
Wentz - 6
Keenum - 1.9
This is misleading. Why? Because Brady, Brees and Ben have already received MULTIPLE contracts in their careers and are to the point that they've made so much they can afford financially and ego-wise to take smaller AAS to help the team stay competitive.
And like half this list is backups and guys on rookies. How often do you think that would be the case in the Playoffs?
Wentz will be the highest paid QB at some point. When Newton is up he'll get another massive deal. It's all fluid.
Now if you told me the salary cap was never going to go up again then we'd be having a much different conversation about paying Cousins over $25k.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ FSUVike said:
So let's get someone cheap, sign a bunch of FAs and get blown out in the NFCCG again because the Offense can't keep up.
I'm sorry but this Defense isn't EVER going to be in the same class as the Broncos or Ravens Units that carried them to a Super Bowl.
And that starts with Zimmer. He coaches to make you earn every yard and keep you out of the Endzone. He's not coaching to sack you or turn you over on every play. That's too.aggressive and risky for his style.
No matter who gets inked this team will not win it all solely on Defense. But having a Franchise QB and an Offense that can go toe to toe with NO, Philly and NE changes the script.
LBs and DEs can be replaced. Zimmer did it in Dallas and Cincinnati. But the Boys had a Franchise QB and the Bungles did not, hence the vastly different levels of success in the postseason.
If you could look into the future and tell me Teddy will become a Tier 2 QB I'd be all over that as you could keep adding pieces to the Defense to at least make it harder for the Elite Offenses to score.
Too big of a risk for my heart to bear, although I think that will be what happens after the Jets or Broncos throw crazy money at Kirk.
i read a rumor this morning that the bungles might shop andy dalton who has 2 years left at about 17 million per season. I would rather see what they would want than to spend 30 on Cousins.
I know many see his positives, but I dont see any value with him at that kind of money. 22-24 yes. I think its absurd to say that since brees rogers and stafford are getting 30+ that is now the market for a starting QB because they IMO are significantly better QBs game in game out and all game long than cousins has shown. I dont think cousins is the type of qb that really puts a team on his back and carries them and the redskins w/l record kind of bears that out. sure its not all on him, but rogers shoulders a pretty shitty roster every year and is usually an nfc favorite every year. his arm is good enough, he seems to be able to make all the throws, but i question his decision making far to often. lots of QB in the leagues history that throw for a ton of yards but end up having blah careers because they just couldnt play at that level when their team needed them to, or they didnt know when to take the sack or throw it away.
Living in Michigan, I see Stafford a lot, and while he has a stronger arm, I see a lot of the same game out of him as I do in Cousins. Both very competitive, with some of the it factor, haven't had great skill players the last year, with the better receivers in Detroit. Both teams had bad defenses and couldn't hold leads and forced QB's to take risks down the stretch leading to turnovers.
so then my question is, if these next tier QBs like stafford need quality supporting casts, should they really be in the top tier pay wise in the league? I say no. i read that rogers next contract is supposed to be about 32 per year, does anybody honestly believe that cousins is only 7% less of a QB than rogers? because that is what is being thrown out pay wise. i am not really against any 1 QB, just those QBs at what price. I have to see value in the guy and think that he will likely improve not stay the same or regress. I think cousins will likely be better in minny that he was in dc, but why should he get paid more based on what people think he will do, isnt it the supporting cast that will elevate his play? we saw how much better keenum was and I dont think keenum and cousins are really even close in terms of level of QB based on arm strength and accuracy. if some other team wants to over pay for a QB, let them, we will find our guy and still be able to continue to build a better team around them if we dont spend stupid like.
They ALL need supporting casts. Where did the Packers go when Jordy Nelson went down and his other receivers were exposed as marginal. Rodgers I guess shouldn't get top tier money? Your argument that you have to see value in the guy and think he will likely improve and not regress. Then you go on to say that Cousins will likely be better in Minny than DC, but it's based on supporting cast so it really doesn't mean the QB is worth that much more... Well put Rodgers in Cleveland the last 10 years and lets compare numbers.
Further, Rodgers isn't a FA until 2020, so I'd like to know where you read he's going to get 32 million on his next deal. First of all he'll be 36, so who knows if he'll want to play, and if he does, I can guarantee that the market value won't be close to that number.
rogers has an out right now IIRC. the last 2 years are player options.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ silverjoel said:
There were 7 QBs with a cap hit of $20+ million last year. Throw in Manning and Luck, $19.7 million and $19.4 million respectively. Out of those 9 QBs, 2 made the playoffs (Newton and Ryan). Flacco, Cousins and Manning - no playoffs. Palmer, Tannehill, Rodgers and Luck all were out injured the majority of the year (no playoffs).
Just paying a QB $20+ million does not mean that the team is going to win.
QBs of teams that made the playoffs (QB - $ millions)
Ryan - 23.7
Newton - 20.1
Brees - 19
Roethlisberger - 18.2
Smith - 16.9
Brady - 14
Taylor - 9.7
Mariota - 6.6
Bortles - 6.5
Goff - 6.3
Wentz - 6
Keenum - 1.9
This is misleading. Why? Because Brady, Brees and Ben have already received MULTIPLE contracts in their careers and are to the point that they've made so much they can afford financially and ego-wise to take smaller AAS to help the team stay competitive.
And like half this list is backups and guys on rookies. How often do you think that would be the case in the Playoffs?
Wentz will be the highest paid QB at some point. When Newton is up he'll get another massive deal. It's all fluid.
Now if you told me the salary cap was never going to go up again then we'd be having a much different conversation about paying Cousins over $25k.
Yes- agreed. half those guys are on rookie contracts. you think they're going to take less than 25+ mill when their contract is up?
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