Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ headhunt23 said:
So, what does this have to do with Case Keenum?
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call.
On Sunday, Keenum had a perfect 158.3 QB rating throwing against Josh Norman, widely known as one of the best, if not the best, CBs in the game.
And that was against a defense that had just shut down the red-hot Russell Wilson in Seattle the week before.
I'm still waiting for an actual legitimate reason why Keenum should be benched. And because you "just know" he is going to shit the bed at some point is not a valid reason.
Thank you!
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
"Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "
so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.
Case has been our starter for 9 weeks, has been playing at a starter level based on any metric you care to look at... Case is not the QB2 this season in anything other than the label many put on him as "journyman backup QB"
you mean the label that was assigned when he signed here by everybody. he is playing good, but not necessarily good enough. its beyond reason to not want to see if another player might provide better at the position if the coaches deem it possible. its not like Keenum is looking like the second coming of Brady... he is playing decent, but that horseshoe hes got stuck up his ass is likely to fall out at some point and better defenses will likely expose his warts and leave the team in a bad place. why wait if the coaches think Teddy is the answer and they think he is ready.
I agree with everything you say, Keenum is playing better than he ever has, but why is it not possible for him to just be playing better? and the label he was assigned when he signed here means nothing this far into the season, he's the starter this season for all except the 1st week, and has performed above average (at least in my opinion). the thought that it's all luck is a cop-out no?
and i love Zim, but i think one of his flaws, for better or for worse, is his man crush on Teddy, because he loves a conservative QB who wont win or lose a game for you, and that's what he's been. but that's his guy.. i could see him playing Teddy for other reasons than on the field.
Teddy could be way WORSE than Case when he comes back, he's going to be rusty as all get up, hasn't been hit in 18 months, has not faced a live defense in that time span either, you worry about what a good defense could do to Case? i'm much more worried what Teddy would do against a top defense.
Quote: @SFVikingFan said:
@ headhunt23 said:
So, what does this have to do with Case Keenum?
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call.
On Sunday, Keenum had a perfect 158.3 QB rating throwing against Josh Norman, widely known as one of the best, if not the best, CBs in the game.
And that was against a defense that had just shut down the red-hot Russell Wilson in Seattle the week before.
I'm still waiting for an actual legitimate reason why Keenum should be benched. And because you "just know" he is going to shit the bed at some point is not a valid reason.
That is what this exact thread is about.
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ golfervike said:
"Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "
so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.
Case has been our starter for 9 weeks, has been playing at a starter level based on any metric you care to look at... Case is not the QB2 this season in anything other than the label many put on him as "journyman backup QB"
you mean the label that was assigned when he signed here by everybody. he is playing good, but not necessarily good enough. its beyond reason to not want to see if another player might provide better at the position if the coaches deem it possible. its not like Keenum is looking like the second coming of Brady... he is playing decent, but that horseshoe hes got stuck up his ass is likely to fall out at some point and better defenses will likely expose his warts and leave the team in a bad place. why wait if the coaches think Teddy is the answer and they think he is ready.
I agree with everything you say, Keenum is playing better than he ever has, but why is it not possible for him to just be playing better? and the label he was assigned when he signed here means nothing this far into the season, he's the starter this season for all except the 1st week, and has performed above average (at least in my opinion). the thought that it's all luck is a cop-out no?
and i love Zim, but i think one of his flaws, for better or for worse, is his man crush on Teddy, because he loves a conservative QB who wont win or lose a game for you, and that's what he's been. but that's his guy.. i could see him playing Teddy for other reasons than on the field.
Teddy could be way WORSE than Case when he comes back, he's going to be rusty as all get up, hasn't been hit in 18 months, has not faced a live defense in that time span either, you worry about what a good defense could do to Case? i'm much more worried what Teddy would do against a top defense.
i say its a horse shoe because of the flaws in his game that havent resulted in a lot more turn overs. I literally have never seen a QB get away with poor technique and errant throws as much as Case has this year.... yes its working for him and consequently the Vikes which makes me happy, but you have to agree that he has had a lot of throws hit defenders in the hands and then fall to the ground... and that is not skill... so i say luck. also, he stares down his preferred targets far to often, good defenses will make him pay, we saw Swearinger make the easy pick on Sunday when Case locked onto Rudolph and still attempt the throw. The only anomaly in that play was the pick, Case has gotten away with that stare down all season... again why I say luck. lastly the lofted balls or high/late throws, the receivers have done a good job of hauling them in, but its surprising to me that more of these arent tipped for interceptions, his accuracy is often not good enough for what I would expect from a QB1.
IMO he is a QB2, probably one of the best in the game and maybe could be considered a QB1 with an asterisk in that you would be looking for a better QB1. Case has played well and really is one of the reasons our OL is looking as good as it has, his mobility in the pocket and escapability are a big reason for the success he has had, he has done a great job of leading the offense, my only complaint is the execution of the passing game, which is unfortunately a major part of what I am looking for in a QB1.
Hell if Teddy comes in and we dont see an improvement on Case I will be pushing for the team to let Teddy walk, resign Case on a 3 year deal with low level starter money, and then use a high draft pick on a QB1 in training. I am not about just giving the job to Teddy because he is a great person and a warm and fuzzy story.... I want the QB search to end sooner than later.
Quote:
Hell if Teddy comes in and we dont see an improvement on Case I will be pushing for the team to let Teddy walk, resign Case on a 3 year deal with low level starter money, and then use a high draft pick on a QB1 in training. I am not about just giving the job to Teddy because he is a great person and a warm and fuzzy story.... I want the QB search to end sooner than later.
i think this is the root of the argument, people want to see what we have. i get that, i just fall in the camp that you dont risk losing the season if Teddy is not at a bare minimum the average QB he was as a starter here (albeit trending up). and after a long long layover i fear he will be far worse in the immediate and we will throw away a 7-2 start in a NFC that is virtually wide open, as you can find many flaws in almost every team other than maybe the Eagles.
Quote: @golfervike said:
Hell if Teddy comes in and we dont see an improvement on Case I will be pushing for the team to let Teddy walk, resign Case on a 3 year deal with low level starter money, and then use a high draft pick on a QB1 in training. I am not about just giving the job to Teddy because he is a great person and a warm and fuzzy story.... I want the QB search to end sooner than later.
i think this is the root of the argument, people want to see what we have. i get that, i just fall in the camp that you dont risk losing the season if Teddy is not at a bare minimum the average QB he was as a starter here (albeit trending up). and after a long long layover i fear he will be far worse in the immediate and we will throw away a 7-2 start in a NFC that is virtually wide open, as you can find many flaws in almost every team other than maybe the Eagles.
the only reason I am fine with risking the season as you say is I am pretty convinced that what we have seen to this point is not sustainable anyway as the opponents get tougher. I dont see Case as being good enough consistently to beat ATL and Carolina on their fields.
Also I dont see the team falling apart if we have to go back to Case if Teddy cant exceed Cases play. we may lose in the standings, but I think we are a 4th seed or lower with Case, I think if Teddy has made any improvements in the last 15 months that we could see a 2 or 3 seed... i agree, its hard to see much of chink in the philly armor at this point, but still a lot of games left to play.
Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
probably more so RC than Johnson, Johnson proved to be a pretty good QB without our receivers, but RC couldnt even make it sustain it for more than 1 season... but yeah, it would be tough not to look good throwing to those 3.
Hence "That isn't to say they didn't both play well" they both did but those receivers were a SICK group. Football vacuum cleaners out there.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
My point was that one QB relied on a lot more of those long bomb plays than the other. You didnt see Johnson chucking it up deep to covered WRs and letting them make a play.
And the ‘98 team was fun to watch...until it wasn’t. Randall left a lot of stuff on the table in that second half when he kept trying to throw it deep to Moss.
Johnson wouldnt have done that. And I will go to my grave knowing (not thinking) that Johnson wins that game.
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