I realize it’s early, but I think the Nuclear option is very possible

[Guest]

@"CFIAvike" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"CFIAvike" said:
Call it a vibe, but i just don’t feel like anything is gonna go how the Vikings want this offseason. 

I think JJ becomes malcontent after a long bad negotiation because the Vikings won’t “break the bank” for him and he’ll force his way out of town

I think because the Jefferson negotiation drags out, they’re forced to make a decision on Kirk before March and decide to let let him go for fiscal reasons. I think, ironically, this will in small part work towards Jefferson not resigning. 

I think there will be a huge bidding war over Hunter and we don’t get him 

I think the price will be too high to trade into the top 3 for a real QBOTF. This will look like a massive failure to the fan base.  I also think that’s the backbreaker in the Jefferson negotiations

I think Kwesi correctly isn’t going to see value at 11 for one of the second tier QBs. Which means we’ll probably take a corner from Clemson or try to get cute and trade down again. 

I think they completely shit the bed in the QB department this year. JJM is likely the best of the rest and I don’t think he’ll last to our second round pick. I have zero faith in Nix or Penix, so we probably end up with one of them. 

We’ll end up signing Ryan Tannehill, and he’ll be exactly what he’s always been…below average at everything. He’ll get booed out off the stadium by week 6 and the team will buckle to the overwhelming pressure to start the rookie…. and they’ll suck too. 

I need a whiskey

Happy Sunday, Dude! B)

lol, lots of sad sacks in this forum now. Doom and gloom.

It wasn’t the “break the bank” comment from JJ that spurned this train of thought…. it was the “with a team that wants me” comment. 

That comment never comes out of your mouth if there isn’t SOMETHING there that’s making you feel unwanted by the Vikings. Now I’m not trying to say the Vikings don’t WANT to keep JJ, but at what cost?  Was Addison drafted last year with the thought that JJ might not re-sign?

Same thought with Kirk…say what you will but this regime inherited him, like they did JJ. If you add up the rumors of them desperately wanting to trade up for a QB last year, them setting up 2025 as the new competitive window, and them not committing to Kirk beyond last season…it really does seem like blowing this thing completely up is fully on the horizon. 

Of course Kwesi and KOC are going to SAY that they want Kirk and JJ to stay, but that’s just a way to save face if they move on for mega deals or if contract negotiations break down. That way it won’t look like it’s “their fault” if/when they leave. 

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…JJ’s stock will never be higher than it is right now. If they don’t think they can get a deal done, they’ll trade him. With those picks they would have all the capital they need to go “all-in” on a trade up for a QBOTF…though it appears that would be very out of character for this front office. 

Yes, lets trade the best WR in pro-ball for a maybe in a qbotf...

[Guest]

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"CFIAvike" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"CFIAvike" said:
Call it a vibe, but i just don’t feel like anything is gonna go how the Vikings want this offseason. 

I think JJ becomes malcontent after a long bad negotiation because the Vikings won’t “break the bank” for him and he’ll force his way out of town

I think because the Jefferson negotiation drags out, they’re forced to make a decision on Kirk before March and decide to let let him go for fiscal reasons. I think, ironically, this will in small part work towards Jefferson not resigning. 

I think there will be a huge bidding war over Hunter and we don’t get him 

I think the price will be too high to trade into the top 3 for a real QBOTF. This will look like a massive failure to the fan base.  I also think that’s the backbreaker in the Jefferson negotiations

I think Kwesi correctly isn’t going to see value at 11 for one of the second tier QBs. Which means we’ll probably take a corner from Clemson or try to get cute and trade down again. 

I think they completely shit the bed in the QB department this year. JJM is likely the best of the rest and I don’t think he’ll last to our second round pick. I have zero faith in Nix or Penix, so we probably end up with one of them. 

We’ll end up signing Ryan Tannehill, and he’ll be exactly what he’s always been…below average at everything. He’ll get booed out off the stadium by week 6 and the team will buckle to the overwhelming pressure to start the rookie…. and they’ll suck too. 

I need a whiskey

Happy Sunday, Dude! B)

lol, lots of sad sacks in this forum now. Doom and gloom.

It wasn’t the “break the bank” comment from JJ that spurned this train of thought…. it was the “with a team that wants me” comment. 

That comment never comes out of your mouth if there isn’t SOMETHING there that’s making you feel unwanted by the Vikings. Now I’m not trying to say the Vikings don’t WANT to keep JJ, but at what cost?  Was Addison drafted last year with the thought that JJ might not re-sign?

Same thought with Kirk…say what you will but this regime inherited him, like they did JJ. If you add up the rumors of them desperately wanting to trade up for a QB last year, them setting up 2025 as the new competitive window, and them not committing to Kirk beyond last season…it really does seem like blowing this thing completely up is fully on the horizon. 

Of course Kwesi and KOC are going to SAY that they want Kirk and JJ to stay, but that’s just a way to save face if they move on for mega deals or if contract negotiations break down. That way it won’t look like it’s “their fault” if/when they leave. 

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…JJ’s stock will never be higher than it is right now. If they don’t think they can get a deal done, they’ll trade him. With those picks they would have all the capital they need to go “all-in” on a trade up for a QBOTF…though it appears that would be very out of character for this front office. 

Yes, lets trade the best WR in pro-ball for a maybe in a qbotf...

Bruh, I’m not saying i want to see JJ go. What I’m saying is if the team doesn’t think they can get him signed, they’d be fools to just let him walk next year and get nothing for him?

I’m not sure the team will want to invest almost 40 million a year in a receiver without having a firm grasp on the QB situation

[Guest]

@"CFIAvike" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"CFIAvike" said:
Call it a vibe, but i just don’t feel like anything is gonna go how the Vikings want this offseason. 

I think JJ becomes malcontent after a long bad negotiation because the Vikings won’t “break the bank” for him and he’ll force his way out of town

I think because the Jefferson negotiation drags out, they’re forced to make a decision on Kirk before March and decide to let let him go for fiscal reasons. I think, ironically, this will in small part work towards Jefferson not resigning. 

I think there will be a huge bidding war over Hunter and we don’t get him 

I think the price will be too high to trade into the top 3 for a real QBOTF. This will look like a massive failure to the fan base.  I also think that’s the backbreaker in the Jefferson negotiations

I think Kwesi correctly isn’t going to see value at 11 for one of the second tier QBs. Which means we’ll probably take a corner from Clemson or try to get cute and trade down again. 

I think they completely shit the bed in the QB department this year. JJM is likely the best of the rest and I don’t think he’ll last to our second round pick. I have zero faith in Nix or Penix, so we probably end up with one of them. 

We’ll end up signing Ryan Tannehill, and he’ll be exactly what he’s always been…below average at everything. He’ll get booed out off the stadium by week 6 and the team will buckle to the overwhelming pressure to start the rookie…. and they’ll suck too. 

I need a whiskey

Happy Sunday, Dude! B)

lol, lots of sad sacks in this forum now. Doom and gloom.

It wasn’t the “break the bank” comment from JJ that spurned this train of thought…. it was the “with a team that wants me” comment. 

That comment never comes out of your mouth if there isn’t SOMETHING there that’s making you feel unwanted by the Vikings. Now I’m not trying to say the Vikings don’t WANT to keep JJ, but at what cost?  Was Addison drafted last year with the thought that JJ might not re-sign?

Same thought with Kirk…say what you will but this regime inherited him, like they did JJ. If you add up the rumors of them desperately wanting to trade up for a QB last year, them setting up 2025 as the new competitive window, and them not committing to Kirk beyond last season…it really does seem like blowing this thing completely up is fully on the horizon. 

Of course Kwesi and KOC are going to SAY that they want Kirk and JJ to stay, but that’s just a way to save face if they move on for mega deals or if contract negotiations break down. That way it won’t look like it’s “their fault” if/when they leave. 

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…JJ’s stock will never be higher than it is right now. If they don’t think they can get a deal done, they’ll trade him. With those picks they would have all the capital they need to go “all-in” on a trade up for a QBOTF…though it appears that would be very out of character for this front office. 

If you've been around a while, you know most of the time in these situations you have a whole bunch of speculation, 90% of which is bullshit. The other 10% is just gamesmanship between the two sides. Nobody KNOWS anything yet. 

Sure, anything can happen, but the Vikings aren't being run by idiots. At least I don't think they are. So by far the most likely outcome is that both Cousins and Jefferson are playing in Minnesota next year. Because that's what makes the most sense. Sure, draft the QB, but give him a year under Cousins. Why? Because that makes the most sense. 

And when they do extend Cousins and Jefferson, we'll hear about how this was never a question. We'll hear about how it was ALWAYS their intention to keep them here and, dammit, we said so multiple times. 

Imagine a new GM letting his veteran QB walk, drafting his replacement and having that replacement become Josh Rosen or Bryce Young, wasting Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson, Darrisaw, not to mention a shit ton of money and draft capital spent on those players. Meanwhile Cousins goes on to have success in Atlanta, or wherever. Forget how livid your head coach would be, the GM would be the laughing stock of the NFL.

It's just not very likely that's going to happen. You HAVE TO have the QB overlap at whatever the cost, so you can know what you have in the young QB before moving on from the veteran. The same thing applies with a bridge. The potential for embarrassment or job loss is very, very high. 

You mention their refusal to commit to Cousins last spring. They did this because they knew at the time they were going to try hard to move up for a QB, giving them the overlap everyone wants. I don't see them giving up on that plan, even if it means spending more than they want to keep Cousins.   

[Guest]

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"CFIAvike" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"CFIAvike" said:
Call it a vibe, but i just don’t feel like anything is gonna go how the Vikings want this offseason. 

I think JJ becomes malcontent after a long bad negotiation because the Vikings won’t “break the bank” for him and he’ll force his way out of town

I think because the Jefferson negotiation drags out, they’re forced to make a decision on Kirk before March and decide to let let him go for fiscal reasons. I think, ironically, this will in small part work towards Jefferson not resigning. 

I think there will be a huge bidding war over Hunter and we don’t get him 

I think the price will be too high to trade into the top 3 for a real QBOTF. This will look like a massive failure to the fan base.  I also think that’s the backbreaker in the Jefferson negotiations

I think Kwesi correctly isn’t going to see value at 11 for one of the second tier QBs. Which means we’ll probably take a corner from Clemson or try to get cute and trade down again. 

I think they completely shit the bed in the QB department this year. JJM is likely the best of the rest and I don’t think he’ll last to our second round pick. I have zero faith in Nix or Penix, so we probably end up with one of them. 

We’ll end up signing Ryan Tannehill, and he’ll be exactly what he’s always been…below average at everything. He’ll get booed out off the stadium by week 6 and the team will buckle to the overwhelming pressure to start the rookie…. and they’ll suck too. 

I need a whiskey

Happy Sunday, Dude! B)

lol, lots of sad sacks in this forum now. Doom and gloom.

It wasn’t the “break the bank” comment from JJ that spurned this train of thought…. it was the “with a team that wants me” comment. 

That comment never comes out of your mouth if there isn’t SOMETHING there that’s making you feel unwanted by the Vikings. Now I’m not trying to say the Vikings don’t WANT to keep JJ, but at what cost?  Was Addison drafted last year with the thought that JJ might not re-sign?

Same thought with Kirk…say what you will but this regime inherited him, like they did JJ. If you add up the rumors of them desperately wanting to trade up for a QB last year, them setting up 2025 as the new competitive window, and them not committing to Kirk beyond last season…it really does seem like blowing this thing completely up is fully on the horizon. 

Of course Kwesi and KOC are going to SAY that they want Kirk and JJ to stay, but that’s just a way to save face if they move on for mega deals or if contract negotiations break down. That way it won’t look like it’s “their fault” if/when they leave. 

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…JJ’s stock will never be higher than it is right now. If they don’t think they can get a deal done, they’ll trade him. With those picks they would have all the capital they need to go “all-in” on a trade up for a QBOTF…though it appears that would be very out of character for this front office. 

If you've been around a while, you know most of the time in these situations you have a whole bunch of speculation, 90% of which is bullshit. The other 10% is just gamesmanship between the two sides. Nobody KNOWS anything yet. 

Sure, anything can happen, but the Vikings aren't being run by idiots. At least I don't think they are. So by far the most likely outcome is that both Cousins and Jefferson are playing in Minnesota next year. Because that's what makes the most sense. Sure, draft the QB, but give him a year under Cousins. Why? Because that makes the most sense. 

And when they do extend Cousins and Jefferson, we'll hear about how this was never a question. We'll hear about how it was ALWAYS their intention to keep them here and, dammit, we said so multiple times. 

Imagine a new GM letting his veteran QB walk, drafting his replacement and having that replacement become Josh Rosen or Bryce Young, wasting Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson, Darrisaw, not to mention a shit ton of money and draft capital spent on those players. Meanwhile Cousins goes on to have success in Atlanta, or wherever. Forget how livid your head coach would be, the GM would be the laughing stock of the NFL.

It's just not very likely that's going to happen. You HAVE TO have the QB overlap at whatever the cost, so you can know what you have in the young QB before moving on from the veteran. The same thing applies with a bridge. The potential for embarrassment or job loss is very, very high. 

You mention their refusal to commit to Cousins last spring. They did this because they knew at the time they were going to try hard to move up for a QB, giving them the overlap everyone wants. I don't see them giving up on that plan, even if it means spending more than they want to keep Cousins.   

This is a great point and I do think the team learned *something* from last offseason. But, spun a different way, maybe they learned— in conjunction with how the draft board seems to be shaping up, especially the top 3— that bringing Kirk back to tutor a successor isn’t a guarantee even if that’s the plan. It doesn’t work if you can’t actually draft said successor. Put another way, last year might serve to give them pause about bringing him back once again, in the event there’s no one to actually learn from him. 

[Guest]

The reason to bring Kirk or any bridge QB isn’t so that he
can knowledge dump into the next QB.  The
two main reasons, in my mind, to bring Kirk in is 1)  He gives you the best chance of winning in
the short term.  There’s no guarantee
that your rookie will be a success or that you will even be able to draft a viable
QB at all.  If you don’t have a QB on the
roster, you are putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the whole team to
find one.  2)  If you don’t have some sort of bridge QB, you
are going to be forced to start the QB before they are ready.  You’re going to draft a Penix, and say to
yourself, “He needs a full year to redo his mechanics before starting”, then 6
games in you start him, and he is thinking about everything but his mechanics,
and you’ve locked in his unsound mechanics. 
You’re going to start a QB who doesn’t understand what the defense is
doing, they make all sorts of mistakes and get hit a lot, and now they’re a
broken mess.


 


Are some QBs ready to go from day 1?  Absolutely, but should your gameplan for the
QB you haven’t drafted yet be trial by fire? 
Probably not.  If you’re a coach
or GM and you’re judged by how well you win, do you really want to throw all your
eggs into the 4th best QB prospect in the draft?  What if they’re going to take a year or two
to figure it out, now your record is well under .500 going into the offseason
prior to your 5th year.  People
are already turning on Kwesi/KOC even though 2023 was the sacrificial year in
our rebuild and everyone got injured. 
These guys don’t have 3 more years of a rookie figuring it out.  If a QB comes in and looks like Justin
Fields, that’s not good enough.

[Guest]

@"medaille" said:
The reason to bring Kirk or any bridge QB isn’t so that he
can knowledge dump into the next QB.  The
two main reasons, in my mind, to bring Kirk in is 1)  He gives you the best chance of winning in
the short term.  There’s no guarantee
that your rookie will be a success or that you will even be able to draft a viable
QB at all.  If you don’t have a QB on the
roster, you are putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the whole team to
find one.  2)  If you don’t have some sort of bridge QB, you
are going to be forced to start the QB before they are ready.  You’re going to draft a Penix, and say to
yourself, “He needs a full year to redo his mechanics before starting”, then 6
games in you start him, and he is thinking about everything but his mechanics,
and you’ve locked in his unsound mechanics. 
You’re going to start a QB who doesn’t understand what the defense is
doing, they make all sorts of mistakes and get hit a lot, and now they’re a
broken mess.


 


Are some QBs ready to go from day 1?  Absolutely, but should your gameplan for the
QB you haven’t drafted yet be trial by fire? 
Probably not.  If you’re a coach
or GM and you’re judged by how well you win, do you really want to throw all your
eggs into the 4th best QB prospect in the draft?  What if they’re going to take a year or two
to figure it out, now your record is well under .500 going into the offseason
prior to your 5th year.  People
are already turning on Kwesi/KOC even though 2023 was the sacrificial year in
our rebuild and everyone got injured. 
These guys don’t have 3 more years of a rookie figuring it out.  If a QB comes in and looks like Justin
Fields, that’s not good enough.

Agreed with all of this and that’s why drafting a QB early last year was probably Plan A. Didn’t work, and now we’re at the mercy of Kirk’s FA market to execute a Plan B.

I’m not sure if it’s inexperience, ineptitude, bad luck or something else but the Vikings are in a bind at QB and for better or worse, as bad as I think we need to build for the future, I could see the team “caving” to some degree and giving Kirk a lot of money and years to return. Then the next question will be do we draft a QB in the first to ride the pine for 2+ years. 

It’s a conundrum and I’m very interested/kinda terrified to watch it play out. 

[Guest]

@"pattersaur" said:

@"medaille" said:
The reason to bring Kirk or any bridge QB isn’t so that he
can knowledge dump into the next QB.  The
two main reasons, in my mind, to bring Kirk in is 1)  He gives you the best chance of winning in
the short term.  There’s no guarantee
that your rookie will be a success or that you will even be able to draft a viable
QB at all.  If you don’t have a QB on the
roster, you are putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the whole team to
find one.  2)  If you don’t have some sort of bridge QB, you
are going to be forced to start the QB before they are ready.  You’re going to draft a Penix, and say to
yourself, “He needs a full year to redo his mechanics before starting”, then 6
games in you start him, and he is thinking about everything but his mechanics,
and you’ve locked in his unsound mechanics. 
You’re going to start a QB who doesn’t understand what the defense is
doing, they make all sorts of mistakes and get hit a lot, and now they’re a
broken mess.


 


Are some QBs ready to go from day 1?  Absolutely, but should your gameplan for the
QB you haven’t drafted yet be trial by fire? 
Probably not.  If you’re a coach
or GM and you’re judged by how well you win, do you really want to throw all your
eggs into the 4th best QB prospect in the draft?  What if they’re going to take a year or two
to figure it out, now your record is well under .500 going into the offseason
prior to your 5th year.  People
are already turning on Kwesi/KOC even though 2023 was the sacrificial year in
our rebuild and everyone got injured. 
These guys don’t have 3 more years of a rookie figuring it out.  If a QB comes in and looks like Justin
Fields, that’s not good enough.

Agreed with all of this and that’s why drafting a QB early last year was probably Plan A. Didn’t work, and now we’re at the mercy of Kirk’s FA market to execute a Plan B.

I’m not sure if it’s inexperience, ineptitude, bad luck or something else but the Vikings are in a bind at QB and for better or worse, as bad as I think we need to build for the future, I could see the team “caving” to some degree and giving Kirk a lot of money and years to return. Then the next question will be do we draft a QB in the first to ride the pine for 2+ years. 

It’s a conundrum and I’m very interested/kinda terrified to watch it play out. 

I think the correct answer on when you should draft a QB is
whenever you think a guy has the potential to become elite, you should draft
that guy.  If you have Mahomes or another
HOF-likely QB, probably stop looking.  If
you aren’t confident that your QB is destined for the HOF, keep looking.  If you need to deal with the inefficiencies
of having 2 starting caliber QBs on the roster, that’s just the price of
finding an elite QB faster than other teams. 
If you don’t have a QB, and your only options are guys that you don’t
think cut the mustard, then don’t double down and draft that guy high because
of your desperate need.

[Guest]

Again this isn't last year or the year before.  We have to make a decision on a 36yr old QB coming off his first major injury that many do not come back from or at least takes years to come back 90%.  3 factors have changed this year - age, injury and injury recup at his age.  

Seems like everyone just assumes Kirk will pick up right where he left off in week 1, 2024.  Not likely at all.  

I for one do not want to commit 40 mill plus to Kirk at this point and situation.  

What of he isn't ready until week 5?
What if he isn't 100% the whole season?
What if he reinjures himself?  

Risk vs Reward.

I would rather put that Risk into drafting a Top QB and finding a viable bridge QB and sign Hunter, JJ, Darrisaw etc..

[Guest]

@"CFIAvike" said:
Call it a vibe, but i just don’t feel like anything is gonna go how the Vikings want this offseason. 

I think JJ becomes malcontent after a long bad negotiation because the Vikings won’t “break the bank” for him and he’ll force his way out of town

I think because the Jefferson negotiation drags out, they’re forced to make a decision on Kirk before March and decide to let let him go for fiscal reasons. I think, ironically, this will in small part work towards Jefferson not resigning. 

I think there will be a huge bidding war over Hunter and we don’t get him 

I think the price will be too high to trade into the top 3 for a real QBOTF. This will look like a massive failure to the fan base.  I also think that’s the backbreaker in the Jefferson negotiations

I think Kwesi correctly isn’t going to see value at 11 for one of the second tier QBs. Which means we’ll probably take a corner from Clemson or try to get cute and trade down again. 

I think they completely shit the bed in the QB department this year. JJM is likely the best of the rest and I don’t think he’ll last to our second round pick. I have zero faith in Nix or Penix, so we probably end up with one of them. 

We’ll end up signing Ryan Tannehill, and he’ll be exactly what he’s always been…below average at everything. He’ll get booed out off the stadium by week 6 and the team will buckle to the overwhelming pressure to start the rookie…. and they’ll suck too. 

I need a whiskey

Kirk gone…check
Hunter Gone….check
Swap Tannehill for Darnold…check 
JJ still unsigned ….check
Kwesi shitting the bed at QB….pending

 right on pace here boys & girls

[Guest]

I’m sure half of us could run the team better than Kwesi, amirite?