Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ medaille said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
Thanks, Jared. Yes, lets go get 'the kid in Cincinnati' to start for us. Sigh. Because 'a relatively cheap price' is what you're looking for from the most important position in the NFL.
I can see this is going to be one hell of an offseason. I'd also like to know what Troy Williamson and Darrin Nelson think about who we should get at QB.
Pretty sure he was suggesting Browning as an affordable bridge option, and that is not a bad take IMO, i would rather not give up any draft picks to get a bridge guy though. There's a handful of UFA QBs coming up that should play decently for much less than Cousins would likely want.
Play decently? lol.
if KC is worth big money...shouldnt he be able to get the job done without high priced receivers? Green Bay has shown for 2 decades that a top tier QB doesnt need high priced talent at the WR and TE position, that the QB can elevate the players he has and be competitive. So if we have all this great talent, maybe a decent QB would be good enough to get a decent season without paying 40 million and killing the chances of improving the roster in other areas or once again kicking the cap hit into the future, screwing up future rosters.
Here's the deal...this all boils down to whether you want to see this whole thing blown up or not. The ONLY way you don't nuke this entire roster aftet getting rid of Kirk is to get EXTREMELY lucky drafting a QB and hit on a superstar right away. Not saying it's not possible, but the odds are massively against us.
A "bridge QB" = a complete waste of a season next year. Literally, don't even bother suiting up. There is absolutely NO quarterback that'll be available in FA who will be anything more than a 6-11 to 8-9 placeholder that barely knows the offense and has zero chemistry with the offense. The entire idea of a "bridge QB" is stupid.
If a bridge QB is their answer, they might as well trade every valuable piece they have for draft picks.
If they let Kirk walk, they have absolutely no choice other than to sell the entire farm to the Bears to move up to #1 to choose between Maye and Williams (the ONLY two rookie QBs talented enough to start)and pray to God you get it right.
That's it...those are the options:
Kirk, Go get a Franchise Rookie QB who can start from day 1, or press the red button and completely blow it up
Why is the only option to nuke the
roster? Most of our old expensive
players are already gone. Most of our
young good players will still be young enough and good enough whether it takes
us a year or two or three to find a QB.
What would be the point in bringing any QB into a scorched earth roster?
3 years is a lifetime in the NFL. Mike Vrabel was Coach of the year 3 years ago and now he's fired. Justin Jefferson's future contracts will depend on a Good/great QB to get him the ball. If you think he's gonna opt to stick around while we "try to figure it out" at QB, you're nuts. In 3 years Jordan Addison will be at the end of his rookie deal....what if we haven't figured out or by then?
Hell this entire front office could be gone in 3 years if they don't get this right.
If the decision is made to move on from one of the faces of your franchise at the QB position, you can't go into next year with fucking Gardner Minshew and a prospect that may or may not work out in 3 years If they covet the young pieces they've assembled, they absolutely must go out and get a Franchise day one starter at all costs.
Otherwise, they need to sell off everything of value stockpile draft picks, clear the cap, completely start over, and STILL find a Franchise QB in the process
the veteran QB is to allow the rookie a little more than OTAs and training camp to get up to speed, this isnt the old times where you could have 2 a days and unlimited offseason practices, your veteran is just an affordable place holder until the rookie is ready. Even the best QBs to ever play the game started behind somebody else for a short time to get acclimated. even if the plan is to go all in on a QB that could be a day 1 starter, you still have to have a back up plan in place. Apparently Hall isnt ready to be a #2, neither Mullings nor Dobbs appeared to be the guy... so yes you go find a guy that will play for less than starter money, but will likely pay more than #2 money. Hell your rookie could end up getting hurt in camp and you still need a guy to play QB until he is healthy. This makes more sense than signing KC for 2 more years at big money and still going all in on his replacement.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ medaille said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
Thanks, Jared. Yes, lets go get 'the kid in Cincinnati' to start for us. Sigh. Because 'a relatively cheap price' is what you're looking for from the most important position in the NFL.
I can see this is going to be one hell of an offseason. I'd also like to know what Troy Williamson and Darrin Nelson think about who we should get at QB.
Pretty sure he was suggesting Browning as an affordable bridge option, and that is not a bad take IMO, i would rather not give up any draft picks to get a bridge guy though. There's a handful of UFA QBs coming up that should play decently for much less than Cousins would likely want.
Play decently? lol.
if KC is worth big money...shouldnt he be able to get the job done without high priced receivers? Green Bay has shown for 2 decades that a top tier QB doesnt need high priced talent at the WR and TE position, that the QB can elevate the players he has and be competitive. So if we have all this great talent, maybe a decent QB would be good enough to get a decent season without paying 40 million and killing the chances of improving the roster in other areas or once again kicking the cap hit into the future, screwing up future rosters.
Here's the deal...this all boils down to whether you want to see this whole thing blown up or not. The ONLY way you don't nuke this entire roster aftet getting rid of Kirk is to get EXTREMELY lucky drafting a QB and hit on a superstar right away. Not saying it's not possible, but the odds are massively against us.
A "bridge QB" = a complete waste of a season next year. Literally, don't even bother suiting up. There is absolutely NO quarterback that'll be available in FA who will be anything more than a 6-11 to 8-9 placeholder that barely knows the offense and has zero chemistry with the offense. The entire idea of a "bridge QB" is stupid.
If a bridge QB is their answer, they might as well trade every valuable piece they have for draft picks.
If they let Kirk walk, they have absolutely no choice other than to sell the entire farm to the Bears to move up to #1 to choose between Maye and Williams (the ONLY two rookie QBs talented enough to start)and pray to God you get it right.
That's it...those are the options:
Kirk, Go get a Franchise Rookie QB who can start from day 1, or press the red button and completely blow it up
Why is the only option to nuke the
roster? Most of our old expensive
players are already gone. Most of our
young good players will still be young enough and good enough whether it takes
us a year or two or three to find a QB.
What would be the point in bringing any QB into a scorched earth roster?
3 years is a lifetime in the NFL. Mike Vrabel was Coach of the year 3 years ago and now he's fired. Justin Jefferson's future contracts will depend on a Good/great QB to get him the ball. If you think he's gonna opt to stick around while we "try to figure it out" at QB, you're nuts. In 3 years Jordan Addison will be at the end of his rookie deal....what if we haven't figured out or by then?
Hell this entire front office could be gone in 3 years if they don't get this right.
If the decision is made to move on from one of the faces of your franchise at the QB position, you can't go into next year with fucking Gardner Minshew and a prospect that may or may not work out in 3 years If they covet the young pieces they've assembled, they absolutely must go out and get a Franchise day one starter at all costs.
Otherwise, they need to sell off everything of value stockpile draft picks, clear the cap, completely start over, and STILL find a Franchise QB in the process
the veteran QB is to allow the rookie a little more than OTAs and training camp to get up to speed, this isnt the old times where you could have 2 a days and unlimited offseason practices, your veteran is just an affordable place holder until the rookie is ready. Even the best QBs to ever play the game started behind somebody else for a short time to get acclimated. even if the plan is to go all in on a QB that could be a day 1 starter, you still have to have a back up plan in place. Apparently Hall isnt ready to be a #2, neither Mullings nor Dobbs appeared to be the guy... so yes you go find a guy that will play for less than starter money, but will likely pay more than #2 money. Hell your rookie could end up getting hurt in camp and you still need a guy to play QB until he is healthy. This makes more sense than signing KC for 2 more years at big money and still going all in on his replacement.
So sign a career back up QB to start ....got it. That should fire up the fan base and sell tix.
If you draft a QB that you need to give time to develop, you've drafted a QB who is more likely to fail than succeed. In which case you might as well blow everything up and start over....ala my original point
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
Quote:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ medaille said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
Thanks, Jared. Yes, lets go get 'the kid in Cincinnati' to start for us. Sigh. Because 'a relatively cheap price' is what you're looking for from the most important position in the NFL.
I can see this is going to be one hell of an offseason. I'd also like to know what Troy Williamson and Darrin Nelson think about who we should get at QB.
Pretty sure he was suggesting Browning as an affordable bridge option, and that is not a bad take IMO, i would rather not give up any draft picks to get a bridge guy though. There's a handful of UFA QBs coming up that should play decently for much less than Cousins would likely want.
Play decently? lol.
if KC is worth big money...shouldnt he be able to get the job done without high priced receivers? Green Bay has shown for 2 decades that a top tier QB doesnt need high priced talent at the WR and TE position, that the QB can elevate the players he has and be competitive. So if we have all this great talent, maybe a decent QB would be good enough to get a decent season without paying 40 million and killing the chances of improving the roster in other areas or once again kicking the cap hit into the future, screwing up future rosters.
Here's the deal...this all boils down to whether you want to see this whole thing blown up or not. The ONLY way you don't nuke this entire roster aftet getting rid of Kirk is to get EXTREMELY lucky drafting a QB and hit on a superstar right away. Not saying it's not possible, but the odds are massively against us.
A "bridge QB" = a complete waste of a season next year. Literally, don't even bother suiting up. There is absolutely NO quarterback that'll be available in FA who will be anything more than a 6-11 to 8-9 placeholder that barely knows the offense and has zero chemistry with the offense. The entire idea of a "bridge QB" is stupid.
If a bridge QB is their answer, they might as well trade every valuable piece they have for draft picks.
If they let Kirk walk, they have absolutely no choice other than to sell the entire farm to the Bears to move up to #1 to choose between Maye and Williams (the ONLY two rookie QBs talented enough to start)and pray to God you get it right.
That's it...those are the options:
Kirk, Go get a Franchise Rookie QB who can start from day 1, or press the red button and completely blow it up
Why is the only option to nuke the
roster? Most of our old expensive
players are already gone. Most of our
young good players will still be young enough and good enough whether it takes
us a year or two or three to find a QB.
What would be the point in bringing any QB into a scorched earth roster?
3 years is a lifetime in the NFL. Mike Vrabel was Coach of the year 3 years ago and now he's fired. Justin Jefferson's future contracts will depend on a Good/great QB to get him the ball. If you think he's gonna opt to stick around while we "try to figure it out" at QB, you're nuts. In 3 years Jordan Addison will be at the end of his rookie deal....what if we haven't figured out or by then?
Hell this entire front office could be gone in 3 years if they don't get this right.
If the decision is made to move on from one of the faces of your franchise at the QB position, you can't go into next year with fucking Gardner Minshew and a prospect that may or may not work out in 3 years If they covet the young pieces they've assembled, they absolutely must go out and get a Franchise day one starter at all costs.
Otherwise, they need to sell off everything of value stockpile draft picks, clear the cap, completely start over, and STILL find a Franchise QB in the process
the veteran QB is to allow the rookie a little more than OTAs and training camp to get up to speed, this isnt the old times where you could have 2 a days and unlimited offseason practices, your veteran is just an affordable place holder until the rookie is ready. Even the best QBs to ever play the game started behind somebody else for a short time to get acclimated. even if the plan is to go all in on a QB that could be a day 1 starter, you still have to have a back up plan in place. Apparently Hall isnt ready to be a #2, neither Mullings nor Dobbs appeared to be the guy... so yes you go find a guy that will play for less than starter money, but will likely pay more than #2 money. Hell your rookie could end up getting hurt in camp and you still need a guy to play QB until he is healthy. This makes more sense than signing KC for 2 more years at big money and still going all in on his replacement.
So sign a career back up QB to start ....got it. That should fire up the fan base and sell tix
he is getting signed to be a better #2 than what we have on the chance that the new kid is not ready to take the reins right away. why is it so hard for some to accept that not every draft pick will be ready day 1, especially a QB that has to learn way more about an offense than any other position in the game? Every year we see other positional players drafted ( even high round picks) that end up sitting the first month or so, and there is very little said, its just accepted that they werent up to speed yet and we go on our way until at least mid season and then the bust mumblings start.
the one and only advantage I would see to doing it your way and just going all in on the rookie starting day 1 is they would then likely get more reps with the starters than an assumed #2 would. You are going to have some cap savings, so why not put a little into the #2 QB in the likelihood of needing them at some point?
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.
Because that's the skill level we're taking about here. NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ medaille said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
Thanks, Jared. Yes, lets go get 'the kid in Cincinnati' to start for us. Sigh. Because 'a relatively cheap price' is what you're looking for from the most important position in the NFL.
I can see this is going to be one hell of an offseason. I'd also like to know what Troy Williamson and Darrin Nelson think about who we should get at QB.
Pretty sure he was suggesting Browning as an affordable bridge option, and that is not a bad take IMO, i would rather not give up any draft picks to get a bridge guy though. There's a handful of UFA QBs coming up that should play decently for much less than Cousins would likely want.
Play decently? lol.
if KC is worth big money...shouldnt he be able to get the job done without high priced receivers? Green Bay has shown for 2 decades that a top tier QB doesnt need high priced talent at the WR and TE position, that the QB can elevate the players he has and be competitive. So if we have all this great talent, maybe a decent QB would be good enough to get a decent season without paying 40 million and killing the chances of improving the roster in other areas or once again kicking the cap hit into the future, screwing up future rosters.
Here's the deal...this all boils down to whether you want to see this whole thing blown up or not. The ONLY way you don't nuke this entire roster aftet getting rid of Kirk is to get EXTREMELY lucky drafting a QB and hit on a superstar right away. Not saying it's not possible, but the odds are massively against us.
A "bridge QB" = a complete waste of a season next year. Literally, don't even bother suiting up. There is absolutely NO quarterback that'll be available in FA who will be anything more than a 6-11 to 8-9 placeholder that barely knows the offense and has zero chemistry with the offense. The entire idea of a "bridge QB" is stupid.
If a bridge QB is their answer, they might as well trade every valuable piece they have for draft picks.
If they let Kirk walk, they have absolutely no choice other than to sell the entire farm to the Bears to move up to #1 to choose between Maye and Williams (the ONLY two rookie QBs talented enough to start)and pray to God you get it right.
That's it...those are the options:
Kirk, Go get a Franchise Rookie QB who can start from day 1, or press the red button and completely blow it up
Why is the only option to nuke the
roster? Most of our old expensive
players are already gone. Most of our
young good players will still be young enough and good enough whether it takes
us a year or two or three to find a QB.
What would be the point in bringing any QB into a scorched earth roster?
3 years is a lifetime in the NFL. Mike Vrabel was Coach of the year 3 years ago and now he's fired. Justin Jefferson's future contracts will depend on a Good/great QB to get him the ball. If you think he's gonna opt to stick around while we "try to figure it out" at QB, you're nuts. In 3 years Jordan Addison will be at the end of his rookie deal....what if we haven't figured out or by then?
Hell this entire front office could be gone in 3 years if they don't get this right.
If the decision is made to move on from one of the faces of your franchise at the QB position, you can't go into next year with fucking Gardner Minshew and a prospect that may or may not work out in 3 years If they covet the young pieces they've assembled, they absolutely must go out and get a Franchise day one starter at all costs.
Otherwise, they need to sell off everything of value stockpile draft picks, clear the cap, completely start over, and STILL find a Franchise QB in the process
I think that if teams used your logic, they’d never be able
to build a team. They’d be constantly
tearing everything down, because things are never perfect, and if things aren’t
perfect you need to tear it down. In 3
years when your franchise QB is getting creamed behind your backup caliber
OLine and throwing to your backup caliber WRs, because we traded away all our
good players, you’ll be saying “Why would they want to stay here? There’s no talent here. We should trade our franchise QB for picks and
go get another franchise QB that isn’t going to abandon us, but this time we
need to surround him with talent”
Regarding JJ leaving, honestly, think about it. How many premier players can you name off the
top of your head that just decided to test the waters of free agency when they
had a 4 year offer on the table at fair market value? Almost none.
This is not a fear you need to have.
We control where Jefferson plays for the next 2-3 years. If JJ doesn’t really want to play here or he’s
asking too much, he’s going to get franchise tagged and he’s going to have to
weigh out whether or not he wants to not play a season and lose a full year in
his prime, play the season and risk getting hurt without having received that
massive contract, or just sign the contract, get $120M dollars, and suck it up
and play for a team that’s treated him pretty well.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.
Because that's the skill level we're taking about here. NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money
you can find guys that are bottom tier starters that play for much less than what KC is likely to be getting. Baker Mayfield is expected to sign a deal for under 20 per year, why not go get Baker, even if its on a longer term at say 18 million per year, give him some trade protections, and then still go get your rookie. the team comes out millions ahead, has a much better back if the rookie wins out, and still has a QB that will put butts in the seats ( although I dont think that is a problem yet based on the resale market ticket prices ( even after Kirk went down )
People act as if we're cash strapped. If/when Harry hangs em up, we have another 15 million to add to the 42 million in cap space we have. I don't expect Davenport back, Tonga and Lynch probably gone. Sheldon Day? None are big money, but together probably save another 5-6 million. We can do whatever we want to do on a 2 yr. deal on the QB front and it isn't going to cripple this team from making any moves it needs to in FA. This year will be a cakewalk for Brez compared to the last couple. As stated before, can the front office land the right guys instead of dead wood in FA? Can they recognize talent in the draft? Analytics need to go bye bye this year, and find people that pass the eye test, stand out on game tape, and fit what this team lacks.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
People act as if we're cash strapped. If/when Harry hangs em up, we have another 15 million to add to the 42 million in cap space we have. I don't expect Davenport back, Tonga and Lynch probably gone. Sheldon Day? None are big money, but together probably save another 5-6 million. We can do whatever we want to do on a 2 yr. deal on the QB front and it isn't going to cripple this team from making any moves it needs to in FA. This year will be a cakewalk for Brez compared to the last couple. As stated before, can the front office land the right guys instead of dead wood in FA? Can they recognize talent in the draft? Analytics need to go bye bye this year, and find people that pass the eye test, stand out on game tape, and fit what this team lacks.
Bravo and I'll toss in an "amen"
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.
Because that's the skill level we're taking about here. NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money
you can find guys that are bottom tier starters that play for much less than what KC is likely to be getting. Baker Mayfield is expected to sign a deal for under 20 per year, why not go get Baker, even if its on a longer term at say 18 million per year, give him some trade protections, and then still go get your rookie. the team comes out millions ahead, has a much better back if the rookie wins out, and still has a QB that will put butts in the seats ( although I dont think that is a problem yet based on the resale market ticket prices ( even after Kirk went down )
That's what I want to see "lower tier starters" until we happen upon a QB in the draft. That's how you get 7-8 years of Sean Salisbury, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Cassel, Case Keenum, washed up Donovan McNabb, Gus Frerotte...
Sign me up dude....that's gonna be awesome
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.
Because that's the skill level we're taking about here. NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money
you can find guys that are bottom tier starters that play for much less than what KC is likely to be getting. Baker Mayfield is expected to sign a deal for under 20 per year, why not go get Baker, even if its on a longer term at say 18 million per year, give him some trade protections, and then still go get your rookie. the team comes out millions ahead, has a much better back if the rookie wins out, and still has a QB that will put butts in the seats ( although I dont think that is a problem yet based on the resale market ticket prices ( even after Kirk went down )
That's what I want to see "lower tier starters" until we happen upon a QB in the draft. That's how you get 7-8 years of Sean Salisbury, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Cassel, Case Keenum, washed up Donovan McNabb, Gus Frerotte...
Sign me up dude....that's gonna be awesome
Sounds fun, doesn't it? And then the odds of a drafted QB not making it are higher than making it, so all of these hopes pinned to a new savior QB and it doesn't work? 10 years of garbage football.
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