Quote: @mblack said:
So does this count as a plus to KAM and KOC then? #AskingForAFriend :p
If they are such great talent evaluators and saw something someone else didn't see why didn't they draft him? Outside of Addison he looks to the best player in our entire class, so why did we pick others ahead of him if they are so astute at talent? Once it gets to UDFAs everyone knows who the highest ranked players are and at that point it becomes a bidding war, so I believe more of the credit goes to the Wilfs at that point for providing the pool of money for the UDFAs. The Vikes use to rule UDFAs, but now all teams jump in immediately, so the PLAYER gets to choose more so than the team. Our LB core was weak and the money was good, so it made sense for Pace.
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ mblack said:
So does this count as a plus to KAM and KOC then? #AskingForAFriend :p
If they are such great talent evaluators and saw something someone else didn't see why didn't they draft him? Outside of Addison he looks to the best player in our entire class, so why did we pick others ahead of him if they are so astute at talent? Once it gets to UDFAs everyone knows who the highest ranked players are and at that point it becomes a bidding war, so I believe more of the credit goes to the Wilfs at that point for providing the pool of money for the UDFAs. The Vikes use to rule UDFAs, but now all teams jump in immediately, so the PLAYER gets to choose more so than the team. Our LB core was weak and the money was good, so it made sense for Pace.
Cleveland Browns: LB Mohamoud DiabateSigning bonus: $25,000Total guarantee: $250,000
New Orleans Saints: LB Anfernee OrjiSigning bonus: $10,000Total guarantee: $226,000
Minnesota Vikings: LB Ivan Pace Signing bonus: $20,000Total guarantee: $216,000
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ mblack said:
So does this count as a plus to KAM and KOC then? #AskingForAFriend :p
If they are such great talent evaluators and saw something someone else didn't see why didn't they draft him? Outside of Addison he looks to the best player in our entire class, so why did we pick others ahead of him if they are so astute at talent? Once it gets to UDFAs everyone knows who the highest ranked players are and at that point it becomes a bidding war, so I believe more of the credit goes to the Wilfs at that point for providing the pool of money for the UDFAs. The Vikes use to rule UDFAs, but now all teams jump in immediately, so the PLAYER gets to choose more so than the team. Our LB core was weak and the money was good, so it made sense for Pace.
exactly, if they get credit for seeing something on a guy that they didnt waste even a 7th round pick on... how much can you really credit them? if you think you have something, you use that draft pick so you take the chance of another team outbidding you for his services. we always hear how late round picks are complete crap shoots, well an undrafted player would certainly calculate even lower so... honestly I dont even really look at the picks past the 4th or 5th round as something to hold a GM or scouts accountable for, and with the same thought, cant really credit them to much either.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
I think the question is whether hitting on an UDFA who did not have measurables but had a ton of intangibles and missing on high draft picks who have all the measurables but maybe not the intangibles such as instincts points to a fallacy of relying so much on analytics.
Exactly, which is why you generally want someone who has played or has a background in scouting as a GM. Pace seems like a good find so far, but lets not kid ourselves, UDFA is really just a game of luck. The same luck that landed us Adam Thielen because he happened to live down the street. In no way does getting lucky on Pace lead me to forget the awful trades or players actually drafted by Kwesi.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ mblack said:
So does this count as a plus to KAM and KOC then? #AskingForAFriend :p
I know you're poking fun at the haters. But as you know, drafted players and post draft free agents are all part of the same scouting process. In fact, many of the UDFAs are contacted before the draft is even over. The only difference is that for UDFAs the money has to be agreed upon before you can slap a jersey on them. Sure, credit to the Wilfs for the blank checks but that's been their policy since they bought the team. They have no input on who those players are.
In other words, if KAM, KOC and the scout staff are accountable for the players they draft, they're equally accountable for the ones they sign afterwards.
Yeah, not sure about that. UDFA players are beyond a crap shoot. Draft has meaning....its important to hit on drafted players in the NFL.
I'm happy to have Pace but lets not act like this is a feather in KAM's cap. But its nice nonetheless.
And on Pace....level the damn quarterback next time!!
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
And on Pace....level the damn quarterback next time!!
Something wasn't right there. He is hardwired to lay him out, I think he felt a penalty might have happened or something. I guarantee you that he'll never do that again.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
@ mblack said:
So does this count as a plus to KAM and KOC then? #AskingForAFriend :p
If they are such great talent evaluators and saw something someone else didn't see why didn't they draft him? Outside of Addison he looks to the best player in our entire class, so why did we pick others ahead of him if they are so astute at talent? Once it gets to UDFAs everyone knows who the highest ranked players are and at that point it becomes a bidding war, so I believe more of the credit goes to the Wilfs at that point for providing the pool of money for the UDFAs. The Vikes use to rule UDFAs, but now all teams jump in immediately, so the PLAYER gets to choose more so than the team. Our LB core was weak and the money was good, so it made sense for Pace.
exactly, if they get credit for seeing something on a guy that they didnt waste even a 7th round pick on... how much can you really credit them? if you think you have something, you use that draft pick so you take the chance of another team outbidding you for his services. we always hear how late round picks are complete crap shoots, well an undrafted player would certainly calculate even lower so... honestly I dont even really look at the picks past the 4th or 5th round as something to hold a GM or scouts accountable for, and with the same thought, cant really credit them to much either.
Here's how it generally happens from what I've heard. Around the beginning of the 6th round, teams identify a group of players they're targeting. There's very little difference between them, because after the 5th round you're basically guessing. They separate them into players they can likely sign and players they will likely not be able to sign based on previous conversations. They contact the 1st group and tell them that if they go undrafted, they will make them an offer. They target the 2nd group in the last two rounds.
So yes, while Pace had a say in where he went, it's not like the Vikings didn't scout him, target him and make him a very large offer based on their interest. The distance some of you go to to avoid giving Kwesi cwedit for ANYTHING widdowy makes me waugh out woud.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:So yes, while Pace had a say in where he went, it's not like the Vikings didn't scout him, target him and make him a very large offer based on their interest. The distance some of you go to to avoid giving Kwesi cwedit for ANYTHING widdowy makes me waugh out woud.
As opposed to the distance that some go to try to present him as a combination of Bill Walsh, Ozzie Newsome, Bill Polian, David Copperfield, Mother Theresa and Gandhi =)
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
@ mblack said:
So does this count as a plus to KAM and KOC then? #AskingForAFriend :p
If they are such great talent evaluators and saw something someone else didn't see why didn't they draft him? Outside of Addison he looks to the best player in our entire class, so why did we pick others ahead of him if they are so astute at talent? Once it gets to UDFAs everyone knows who the highest ranked players are and at that point it becomes a bidding war, so I believe more of the credit goes to the Wilfs at that point for providing the pool of money for the UDFAs. The Vikes use to rule UDFAs, but now all teams jump in immediately, so the PLAYER gets to choose more so than the team. Our LB core was weak and the money was good, so it made sense for Pace.
exactly, if they get credit for seeing something on a guy that they didnt waste even a 7th round pick on... how much can you really credit them? if you think you have something, you use that draft pick so you take the chance of another team outbidding you for his services. we always hear how late round picks are complete crap shoots, well an undrafted player would certainly calculate even lower so... honestly I dont even really look at the picks past the 4th or 5th round as something to hold a GM or scouts accountable for, and with the same thought, cant really credit them to much either.
So yes, while Pace had a say in where he went, it's not like the Vikings didn't scout him, target him and make him a very large offer based on their interest. The distance some of you go to to avoid giving Kwesi cwedit for ANYTHING widdowy makes me waugh out woud.
Dude, I hear ya. But you are also a bit of a homer. I've said as much several times before. Doesn't make you bad at all, just makes you a Viking's fan. I've said KAM's legacy still has a way to go to be proven. Can't bag on the dude yet, at least not in a real way. But to say that Pace is a pelt on the wall for KAM is silly. Its a scratch off ticket that other team's lined up to get and we paid more. If anyone had a real clue he would have been drafted. But that's the Draft, incredibly chancy and you need some luck.
Don't stop being you, brother! But, like all of us, you're not always right. Cheers!
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