Quote: @StickyBun said:
Risner isn't going to make any difference of significance. He's on the outside looking in for a reason.
Risner is likely a good upgrade, but at what cost? I suspect his demands outweigh the teams interest until they know more of what they have, or perhaps he is looking for a multi year deal and the team isnt willing to go long term on IOL at this point considering the possibility of a major overhaul in the event they move on from Cousins after this year?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Magnus10 said:
Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.
He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.
If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.
I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing. I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG.
What do we really have to lose? How much worse can it get?
was that strip on Ingram? I thought that looked fucked up, QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off. Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment, not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him. I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play, but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.
After watching a dozen replays, yeah...just like he had the capacity to repeatedly step on Cousins' foot last season, he turned and immediately had his big paw into the snap area. His grades are typically terrible, because he's a terrible OG.
This isn't news, just a new way that he's made a lowlight with his play.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Magnus10 said:
Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.
He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.
If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.
I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing. I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG.
What do we really have to lose? How much worse can it get?
was that strip on Ingram? I thought that looked fucked up, QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off. Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment, not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him. I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play, but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.
After watching a dozen replays, yeah...just like he had the capacity to repeatedly step on Cousins' foot last season, he turned and immediately had his big paw into the snap area. His grades are typically terrible, because he's a terrible OG.
This isn't news, just a new way that he's made a lowlight with his play.
Enter...Willie Beavers.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
was that strip on Ingram? I thought that looked fucked up, QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off. Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment, not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him. I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play, but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.
It happened as soon as Kirk was grabbing the ball, Ingram throws his arms out right into the snap as he gets off the line, if he knows he is moving into the direction of the snap, why flail your arm out into that direction. Looking at the pic is there a reason his arm needs to be that far out.
![[Image: q6004wlcqyuj.png]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/cn/q6004wlcqyuj.png)
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Magnus10 said:
Based on last year’s performance, what we saw in the 1st preseason game, and this Bucs game, Ingram needs to be benched.
He caused a fumble in the Bucs game, he stepped on Cousins foot 3-4 times last year causing sacks and impacting drives.
If any other player on the team had his poor performance over an extended period of time, they would probably not be starting.
I have no idea what the coaching staff is seeing. I don’t care if it’s Chris Reed, Blake Brandel, or Dalton Risner, if we care about improving our interior OL and protecting Kirk, we have to TRY someone else at this position.
If we are going to be a pass first offense, then we need to find a pass blocking RG.
What do we really have to lose? How much worse can it get?
was that strip on Ingram? I thought that looked fucked up, QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off. Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment, not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him. I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play, but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.
Given what changed, Schlotmann playing center, I would put it on the exchange.
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
was that strip on Ingram? I thought that looked fucked up, QBs are taught to get that snap into their chest immediately after the snap as they back pedal or turn to hand off. Ingram pulling has to be looking down the field for his blocking assignment, not to see that Kirk isnt holding the ball out in front of him. I dont know for sure what the hell happened on that play, but I cant see that it was on Ingram to make sure Kirk wasnt standing there with the ball extended away from his body IMO.
It happened as soon as Kirk was grabbing the ball, Ingram throws his arms out right into the snap as he gets off the line, if he knows he is moving into the direction of the snap, why flail your arm out into that direction. Looking at the pic is there a reason his arm needs to be that far out.
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
Quote: @Greylock said:
@ minny65 said:
@ Greylock said:
At this point Ingram does not look like a starting caliber guard, not to say he wont develop into one but at this point is Risner really the answer? If he is why hasn't he been signed? Money, scheme fit, attitude I mean his former offensive line coaches from the Broncos are now employed by the Vikings yet he visited and left without a contract. Maybe that should be a warning sign he is not worth what he may be asking for. Oh and if he does sign and has a crappy game the Kwesi haters will be on here full force saying what a shitty signing he was.
A crappy game based on Ingram's crappy string of games or a crappy game based on an average starting Guard? So you prefer to just sit and watch crappiness and not address a glaring weakness because another guy might also have a crappy game or two? Risner's worst PFF grades are better than Ingrams best especially as a pass blocker which is where our interior is getting Kirk crushed and eventually hurt.
So why hasn't he been signed by any team in the entire league? If he is the answer to a porous line you think he would be on speed dial, yet his former coaches from the Broncos have even passed on him. Makes you wonder maybe he isn't worth what ever he is asking for.
IDK what the other bottom Guards teams are thinking - I do know that Ingram continues to be a bottom of the heap Guard and Risner is an huge upgrade in pass protection specifically. Didn't he have some words with one of the Broncos coaches in terms of Wilson? Maybe that has something to do with it..again IDK. I also don't know if he is asking for too much or too long of a contract. But all the unknowns and I don't want us to just assume things like Ingram is going to improve or that Risner is not worth another phone call/looksee.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Risner isn't going to make any difference of significance. He's on the outside looking in for a reason.
Hmm, OK.
Going from a rookie who was close to setting the record amount of total pressures/hits recorded since 2009 in Ingram and Risner is not going to make any difference? Thats the spirit  Kidding. He might be asking for too much or a long term contract but this disaster needs to stop somehow with someone else (maybe try Brandel with Risner on speed dial).
Quote: @greediron said:
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough. Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ greediron said:
Have you ever played guard? Pulling entails getting a large body turned and moving quickly and that usually involves the arms. Again, why is Kirk still there? No work in the preseason and a new center are the likely culprits.
From rewatching it, it looks like Kirk is just getting the ball, don't think he could have done anything differently, maybe the center did not get the snap up to him quick enough. Definitely could be not enough work together. I understand having to get out quickly, but do not think the arm needs to be that far out from the body.
I think it is a timing thing. Schlotmann might not have been on time, or the placement was different and slowed Kirk down.
As to the arm, that is one of the ways a big man gets his body turned and gets moving, I wasn't any great coach and it was just Jr. Tackle, but that is how I taught my guards to get out of the stance and turned, to rip that elbow back and thereby turning the shoulders.
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