Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Skodin said:
God damn look at those trenches
Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup
Receivers? Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson
The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of:
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam
This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge
Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule
What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down.
Done deal. Which one are we going with?
Im more concerned with how we get there, we've got 8 months to figure out the who.
It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player.
thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk. if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick, that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment. I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?
They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).
Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last.
When was Hutch ever a RG?
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ Skodin said:
God damn look at those trenches
Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup
Receivers? Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson
The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of:
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam
This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge
Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule
Even though it seems more, I think you meant 62 years.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Skodin said:
God damn look at those trenches
Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup
Receivers? Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson
The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of:
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam
This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge
Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule
What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down.
Done deal. Which one are we going with?
Im more concerned with how we get there, we've got 8 months to figure out the who.
It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player.
thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk. if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick, that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment. I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?
They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).
Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last.
The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind.
So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
When was Hutch ever a RG?
No, buy for the purpose of this I couldn't leave him off the list for say a David Dixon, just because he played LG and not RG. Hutch would have been great at either position, but I couldn't move Randall McDaniel
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Skodin said:
God damn look at those trenches
Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup
Receivers? Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson
The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of:
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam
This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge
Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule
What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down.
Done deal. Which one are we going with?
Im more concerned with how we get there, we've got 8 months to figure out the who.
It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player.
thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk. if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick, that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment. I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?
They wouldn't. But there are players to covet every year. I counted 8 QBs in the last mock draft I saw (it will more likely be about half that).
Yes, they will pay a king's ransom for it. But they won't be the first team to do that or the last.
The latest Walter Football mock draft has two quarterbacks going in the first round, although I think Michael Pennix could sneak into the mix at some point. The two guys at the top (Williams and Maye) are universally thought of as top 3 prospects and Williams is thought to be one of those rare Andrew Luck type prospects. Any team holding a winning lottery ticket to draft him probably isn't giving it up for 5 first round picks and the cost for Maye wouldn't be far behind.
So to me, the Vikings as currently constructed are a mid teens to early 20's drafting team for this upcoming draft. The price tag to move up into the top 3 would be massive if you even had a team willing to talk trade. It's why I tend to agree with Jimmy that if that's the plan, it would have made sense to move off Cousons now, take our lumps this upcoming season, and hopefully be bad enough to be in position to land one of those elite prospects to propel this franchise into the future without having to give up a Hershall Walker-esque package attempting to move up. But that's what you get with a "competitive rebuild." You are competitive enough to not be in position to land one of those elite prospects that this franchise absolutely needs moving forward
There will be more than 2, but not 8. Caleb and Maye at the top with a half dozen more that could figure in the 1st round depending on the year they have, including Penix, Ewers, Nix, Travis, Milton, McCarthy, among others.
I know you guys love the idea of trading Cousins and taking a year off. As a fan, there are no consequences. I can assure you teams don't think that way. Especially teams as talented as this one.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
QB- Brett Favre, and I say this based only on his one season (2009) and it being the only time Ive EVER felt we've had an elite quarterback. Fran has all the franchise stats but Favre is universally considered the better quarterback. Culpepper is the only other option but I never felt he was on the level of Favre, even into his 40's. I have no doubt we would have won the Super Bowl in 2009 if it wasn't for the Saints essentially putting a bounty on Favre and trying to injure him. Controversial based on only two seasons in Minnesota but 2009 was the greatest ride I've ever experienced as a fan in large part due to Brett Favre..
RB- Adrian Peterson
WR- Randy Moss
WR- Cris Carter
WR- Justin Jefferson
TE- Steve Jordan
LT- Gary Zimmerman
LG- Randall McDaniel
C- Mick Tingelhoff
RG- Steve Hutchinson
RT- Ron Yary
DE- Carl Eller
DT- John Randle
DT- Alan Page
DE- Chris Doleman
LB- Matt Blair
LB- EJ Henderson
LB- Chad Greenway
CB- Carl Lee
CB- Antoine Wifield
S- Joey Browner
S- Paul Krause
Not a bad list!
We'll all certainly have our own takes...I was in my teens the last time the Vikings played in a SB
Tweaks for me:
I cant put Favre on the list for one fun year over Tark
Much as I love JJ, he's got more to prove b4 I put him on an all time list over Rashad or White
Henderson/Greenway dont make my list over Studwell and McNeil
Ed White would get a lot of OG consideration - but McDaniel is maybe the greatest to have played the position.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Just look at the players left off; Jim Marshall, Keith Millard, Henry Thomas, Doug Martin, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Jared Allen, and the list goes on. Again, it brings me a lot of pain seeing this franchise transition to a 3-4 relying on tricky blitz packages and our best pass rushers dropping into coverage. Also tough leaving Harrison Smith off my list.
Not much to disagree with on your choices. But the bold bears repeating. Not many all-time teams can boast an also-ran list this good.
On a related note, I'm surprised no football writer has ranked NFL teams' all-time best units. We talked a few weeks ago about how the Vikings receivers are arguably the best in NFL history. But I think the Vikings would finish very high on the DL as well.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ supafreak84 said:
QB- Brett Favre, and I say this based only on his one season (2009) and it being the only time Ive EVER felt we've had an elite quarterback. Fran has all the franchise stats but Favre is universally considered the better quarterback. Culpepper is the only other option but I never felt he was on the level of Favre, even into his 40's. I have no doubt we would have won the Super Bowl in 2009 if it wasn't for the Saints essentially putting a bounty on Favre and trying to injure him. Controversial based on only two seasons in Minnesota but 2009 was the greatest ride I've ever experienced as a fan in large part due to Brett Favre..
RB- Adrian Peterson
WR- Randy Moss
WR- Cris Carter
WR- Justin Jefferson
TE- Steve Jordan
LT- Gary Zimmerman
LG- Randall McDaniel
C- Mick Tingelhoff
RG- Steve Hutchinson
RT- Ron Yary
DE- Carl Eller
DT- John Randle
DT- Alan Page
DE- Chris Doleman
LB- Matt Blair
LB- EJ Henderson
LB- Chad Greenway
CB- Carl Lee
CB- Antoine Wifield
S- Joey Browner
S- Paul Krause
Not a bad list!
We'll all certainly have our own takes...I was in my teens the last time the Vikings played in a SB
Tweaks for me:
I cant put Favre on the list for one fun year over Tark
Much as I love JJ, he's got more to prove b4 I put him on an all time list over Rashad or White
Henderson/Greenway dont make my list over Studwell and McNeil
Ed White would get a lot of OG consideration - but McDaniel is maybe the greatest to have played the position.
Agree on the LBs. And Ed White would get consideration, but I don't think he was better than Hutch. And Tark (even though I hate the man) probably deserves to be above Favre. But if you're talking best single season, Favre's 2009 is a solid contender with Pep's 2004 for best all time.
But I wouldn't put Rashad or White over JJ. JJ's just that good. Think about it this way: if you had to win one game and you could choose any of the those three in their prime to pair with Moss and Carter, I think you're far more likely to win that game with JJ.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ Skodin said:
God damn look at those trenches
Zimmerman, McDaniel (best G ever?), Hutch, Mick Doleman, Randle, Eller, Page with players like Allen, Williams, Williams, Thomas (should be in the HOF) not cracking the lineup
Receivers? Best franchise for receivers as well with studs in every decade
70s White and Gilliam
80s Ahmad Rashad and Anthony Carter
90s Cris Carter and Moss
2000s Moss
2010s Harvin, Diggs, Adam
2020s Jefferson
The Niners would be the only team close with a top 5 WR list of:
Rice-Owens-Taylor-Deebo-Crabtree vs Moss-Carter-Jefferson-Harvin-Diggs/Adam
This is why we have never had a chance for a franchise QB, every decade we have been lucky to have all time great level players that elevate the team but is not enough to get over the edge
Completely agree with you. The Vikings franchise has been around for 52 years and we have NEVER drafted a quarterback in the top 10. We've only drafted four 1st round quarterbacks in our history; Kramer, Culpepper, Ponder, and Bridgewater. It really is crazy to think about and I'd have to think the probability of something like that happening is minuscule
What, drafting a QB in the top 10? That changes in '24. Write it down.
Done deal. Which one are we going with?
Im more concerned with how we get there, we've got 8 months to figure out the who.
It will have to be a mortgage. Might also include a player.
thats why I was more willing to move on from KC now than let him play it out and potentially walk. if we could have flipped him for a day 1 or early day 2 pick, that would help pay that mortgage, also it would have let to a higher starting spot to deal from which always helps keep that mortgage down if you have a bigger down payment. I am afraid we will once again be in the low 20s and have to give up a kings ransom to get into that top 5 to get a guy we covet... and if they dont absolutely covet a guy then why make that leap?
The other option is to take our lumps next year and draft the QBotF in '25. Use the salary cap to secure Jefferson and TJ. By '25 we'll have figured out who is going to flourish or flounder in all the new young D players.
A QB coming in would have a great set of tackles and skill players. A former QB coach and frankly a well run organization behind him.
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