They need to trade him asap to some team that hasn't caught on that Kirk is the shriveled wiener of NFL quarterbacks.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
I think Cousins will always be the QB who rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way...and then routinely goes out and throws 3 TDs, 0 picks, and 300 yards.
Also think that if he got the time some QBs get, you would need a pinball machine to keep score. Just bad timing I guess. Vikings finally rebuilt the line, but it's the youngest line in the NFL. They had one "sorta" miss, but it's probably just a year or two from being very good.
It will be interesting to see if Cousins is the one who gets to benefit from that or someone else.
You're the draftnik, not me...
But you're being way too definitive for me. I still see a BIG need to upgrade @ OG and C
I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense? I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year. A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense. I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year. The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.
Quote: @medaille said:
I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense? I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year. A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense. I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year. The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.
I dont put KC in the same level as Brady or a Rogers...He does need a good surround. And any qb needs a D better than the s hit the Vikings fielded this season.
I think a win/win for the Vikings is re-structuring KC, signing a proven veteran for OG maybe a DB and then re-building the D with the draft.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense? I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year. A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense. I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year. The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.
I dont put KC in the same level as Brady or a Rogers...He does need a good surround. And any qb needs a D better than the s hit the Vikings fielded this season.
I think a win/win for the Vikings is re-structuring KC, signing a proven veteran for OG maybe a DB and then re-building the D with the draft.
I don't know that I put them in their level, but at the same time...both have been in systems that absolutely value the trench play. When Brady/Rodgers get a lot of pressure, they suddenly look very "average"...but, that's a rarity. On the contrary, Minnesota QBs have basically spent the last decade running for their lives and/or getting clobbered before even getting set. It's a brutal comparison when watching in bars with lots of TVs going on Sundays, because even some very bad teams' QBs will seemingly have great pockets and hours of time while Kirk has 2-3 seconds to get the snap, make his reads, set the feet, make the throw.
This isn't a new problem. We've drafted and what-not to address it, but I'm not convinced that we've coached the OL worth shit since 2009.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
I think Cousins will always be the QB who rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way...and then routinely goes out and throws 3 TDs, 0 picks, and 300 yards.
Also think that if he got the time some QBs get, you would need a pinball machine to keep score. Just bad timing I guess. Vikings finally rebuilt the line, but it's the youngest line in the NFL. They had one "sorta" miss, but it's probably just a year or two from being very good.
It will be interesting to see if Cousins is the one who gets to benefit from that or someone else.
You're the draftnik, not me...
But you're being way too definitive for me. I still see a BIG need to upgrade @ OG and C
Eh...it depends. It's all tied up in youth v. experience, run v. pass, size v. mobility, how long the QB holds the ball, the offense he's asked to run and the drops he's required to make to run it, but the line is there. Could it be upgraded at center and/or guard? Sure, but so could every line.
Talent is probably less of a factor than getting the offense in sync with the OL. For example, I'd bet you a dozen donuts that if you put Garrett Bradbury on a wide zone team with a quick hitting offense and a mobile QB, he'd be borderline all pro. OK, two dozen. And Udoh's biggest problem is penalties. Like Garrett Bolles and Korey Stringer and Todd Steussie maybe they go away. He's got some talent. He's just really really raw.
I'm curious to see what changes we make on offense...This is very much a zone OL. Don't think you want to change that too much, but maybe a mix like we saw a couple weeks ago is the answer.
Will be interesting to see who is running the offense. Likely the new head coach.
Cousins had his bad games, usually against a team like Chicago that killed us up front. So I am not sure if it was cousins or the offensive play calling when our line was getting its ass handed on a platter. Even Brady has issues when the hits start piling up.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ medaille said:
I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense? I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year. A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense. I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year. The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.
I dont put KC in the same level as Brady or a Rogers...He does need a good surround. And any qb needs a D better than the s hit the Vikings fielded this season.
I think a win/win for the Vikings is re-structuring KC, signing a proven veteran for OG maybe a DB and then re-building the D with the draft.
I don't know that I put them in their level, but at the same time...both have been in systems that absolutely value the trench play. When Brady/Rodgers get a lot of pressure, they suddenly look very "average"...but, that's a rarity. On the contrary, Minnesota QBs have basically spent the last decade running for their lives and/or getting clobbered before even getting set. It's a brutal comparison when watching in bars with lots of TVs going on Sundays, because even some very bad teams' QBs will seemingly have great pockets and hours of time while Kirk has 2-3 seconds to get the snap, make his reads, set the feet, make the throw.
This isn't a new problem. We've drafted and what-not to address it, but I'm not convinced that we've coached the OL worth shit since 2009.
FACT! Where is Mike Tice right now???? Best Oline coach the VIkings have had since 1990. Go get him out of retirement!!!
My thoughts on Cousins. Obviously an arm talent and usually good at reading defenses. Quality QB with the following limitations:
- Will get the yips. Bad plays get into his head and resides there the rest of the game.
- He is robotic in his reads and doesn't modify his calculations based on down and distance. So, except maybe in 2 minute drills, he process his reads the same way on each play. Thus, on a 3rd and 8, if the two first reads past the yardstick are 50/50 balls, he will throw the checkdown for a 3 yard gain. He just doesn't have a risk/reward calculus depending on down and distance. Frankly, I think the coaches are partly to blame by not adjusting their plays and play calls to account for the robotic way Cousins goes through his reads. This is also why Cousins is not great with offscript plays.
- I don't think Cousins is the type of QB that elevates the play of his team and I think in evaluating Cousins you also must look at how much the receiving talent has elevated Cousins.
This does not disqualify Cousins as having the talent to bring a team to a SB -- much like coaches have to alter pays to account for what a QB does not do well, the coaches need to modify the plays (especially 3rd and long) to account for the way Cousins does risk assessment while going through his progressions. At this point, I don't think you can coach out of Cousins his risk averse nature, but you can alter the playbook to make the less risky throw still be enough for a first down.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
My thoughts on Cousins. Obviously an arm talent and usually good at reading defenses. Quality QB with the following limitations:
- Will get the yips. Bad plays get into his head and resides there the rest of the game.
- He is robotic in his reads and doesn't modify his calculations based on down and distance. So, except maybe in 2 minute drills, he process his reads the same way on each play. Thus, on a 3rd and 8, if the two first reads past the yardstick are 50/50 balls, he will throw the checkdown for a 3 yard gain. He just doesn't have a risk/reward calculus depending on down and distance. Frankly, I think the coaches are partly to blame by not adjusting their plays and play calls to account for the robotic way Cousins goes through his reads. This is also why Cousins is not great with offscript plays.
- I don't think Cousins is the type of QB that elevates the play of his team and I think in evaluating Cousins you also must look at how much the receiving talent has elevated Cousins.
This does not disqualify Cousins as having the talent to bring a team to a SB -- much like coaches have to alter pays to account for what a QB does not do well, the coaches need to modify the plays (especially 3rd and long) to account for the way Cousins does risk assessment while going through his progressions. At this point, I don't think you can coach out of Cousins his risk averse nature, but you can alter the playbook to make the less risky throw still be enough for a first down.
Just my 2 cents.
All I ever had to hear was: "I have an EXCEL spreadsheet of every down I have played"
Yips, robot, no feel. You can't coach that out of him. You have to have enough talent, team, and luck to overcome a QB with no feel.
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