Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
2021 first round pick and Kinlaw
You'd need Jimmy G too in order to make the cap work. Or at least Mullens to have a serviceable QB.
the niners will send Jimmy to the Pats for their 1st round pick, then send us that pick (among other things, you know Spielaman will get a 6th or 7th rounder thrown in) for Cousins. We then go after Fitz to be a bridge QB for what will likely end up being QB3 off the board, who we will have to move up to get and it will likely cost us 14 and 15.
You beat me to it. Only way this deal makes sense IMO is if the Vikings can leverage it to get a QB in this years draft.
I dont really like my scenario as it really doesnt improve our team, except for long term cap flexibility. We would be giving up a known commodity in cousins (top 10 QB) for what amounts an unknown with a cheap price tag, which we could get about any where. We needed to end the year in a position to move up for a damn good player with only adding in a 2nd or 3rd round pick. IMO our best moves now are likely to look at shoring up our OL an DL, add in a few other BPA type players, but leverage what ever would could get in a Cousins deal to add more ammo for next year and hope we are in a position to grab a game changing QB. Or offer that #15 to the Jets for Darnold and their second round pick and use our first for line help.
They worked together for 2 years in Washington. We'll see what happens.
I think Darnold could be a guy in play for us, should the Vikings actually trade Kirk. I saw rumors that Shanahan was intrigued in dealing for him, due to his skill set being ideal for his offense.
The perspective to keep in mind with all potential off-season moves, particularly at QB, is that neither Spielman nor Zimmer are going to risk a flop year in 2021. So in a potential trade with SF, the Vikes would have to feel they are better immediately. The only way that happens is if the Vikings think Jimmy G is someone you can build a future around. If you believe that, you take Jimmy G and the 49ers first pick and you think -- with two first rounders and only a small drop off at QB, plus the cap room dumping Cousins provides -- we can be really good in 2021 and '22. If you don't believe in Jimmy G. (and I suspect the Vikings do not) you don't do this deal, because you are almost guaranteed to be worse in 2021, a year when Zim and Spelly are holding onto their jobs for dear life. Betting that you can trade #12 and #14 to pick a franchise QB in this draft is fools gold, IMO -- it is not enough to get you Lawrence and the remaining QBs are a crap shoot.
I've learned to be very skeptical of anything written by Heavy.com. Yes, 49ers are looking for a QB. And yes, Shanahan really likes Cousins. But everyone already knew that. This would require some seriously creative contract wrangling.
It all comes down to if Spelly thinks our window is still open with a few more players coming back healthy, a good draft, and growth from our second year crop of corners. Spelly would also have to swallow some pride because he is the architect of the Kirk signing and restructure. Then you would have to think Spelly would have to be high on this QB draft and within range to get the guy he wants. Very unlikely thought process for Spelly and one in which I do not think he believes from the get-go. I think, he thinks, our window is still open so that is a non-starter right there.
My armchair expertise thinks differently of course 
I think our window is closed for the next couple of years which will coincide with Cousin's remaining two years. More of a restock then a full rebuild because we do have some talent but not enough for our window to be open - just my opinion. With that in mind I also think this is going to be the best group of QB's to come out in years and in years forward. There could be 6 first round QB's drafted which would go back to 1983.
"Six quarterbacks were selected in the first round of the 1983 in what arguably might be considered the greatest NFL Draft of all time. That draft produced seven Hall of Famers, including three of those quarterbacks: John Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Elway led the Denver Broncos to five Super Bowl Appearances, including two victories. Kelly and the Buffalo Bills went to four Super Bowls. Marino led the Dolphins to one. Even Tony Eason, perhaps the second least accomplished member of the 1983 quarterback sextet was a Super Bowl starter with the Patriots. The Jets Ken O'Brien had a decent career. The only dud was the Chiefs' Todd Blackledge. Others elected to the Hall of Fame drafted in 1983 were running back Eric Dickerson, offensive lineman Bruce Matthews, defensive back (and fastest man in the NFL) Darrell Green and defensive end Richard Dent. All but Dent were drafted in the first round.The NFL Draft with the second most number of quarterbacks selected in the first round was 1999 with five. That group had far fewer career accomplishments with only the Eagles' Donavon McNabb (one Super Bowl appearance) having much success. The other quarterbacks taken in the first round in 1999 were: Tim Couch (Browns), Akili Smith (Bengals), Daunte Culpepper (Vikings) and Cade McNown (Bears). Culpepper's promising career was thwarted by a devastating injury. Couch had the disadvantage of being thrown into the fire for an expansion team where he had few moments to shine. Smith and McNown were not NFL caliber players or personalities."
As I have been saying for months a good supply of QB's does not happen when you want or need/demand. When the supply is low it leads to reaches as we saw with Ponder. Now I have no idea if Spelly/staff think there is a franchise QB in this draft but if they do then they should seize the moment with or without Kirk as our starter.
I don't think it would be the worst scenario at all to have drafted a QB in round 1 and still retain Kirk. His contract is prohibitive but it is a sunk cost at this point and a rookie QB contract is usually not bad so our overall QB expenditure would not be crazy.
Now the 49'er situation is interesting although I think very very unlikely for the reasons above. But how would that scenario breakdown in terms of money and comp? I don't really have a full understanding on a trade like this? Do the 49'ers absorb the full cost of our dead money for Kirk - 2021 is 41million and 2022 is 10million. Then we absorb Jimmy G's ?? I am curious about the numbers. Are the teams then able to restructure/renegotiate the contract with the QB. Not knowing the $$$ difference makes it difficult for me to know what draft picks comps.
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Quote: @minny65 said:
It all comes down to if Spelly thinks our window is still open with a few more players coming back healthy, a good draft, and growth from our second year crop of corners. Spelly would also have to swallow some pride because he is the architect of the Kirk signing and restructure. Then you would have to think Spelly would have to be high on this QB draft and within range to get the guy he wants. Very unlikely thought process for Spelly and one in which I do not think he believes from the get-go. I think, he thinks, our window is still open so that is a non-starter right there.
My armchair expertise thinks differently of course
I think our window is closed for the next couple of years which will coincide with Cousin's remaining two years. More of a restock then a full rebuild because we do have some talent but not enough for our window to be open - just my opinion. With that in mind I also think this is going to be the best group of QB's to come out in years and in years forward. There could be 6 first round QB's drafted which would go back to 1983.
"Six quarterbacks were selected in the first round of the 1983 in what arguably might be considered the greatest NFL Draft of all time. That draft produced seven Hall of Famers, including three of those quarterbacks: John Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Elway led the Denver Broncos to five Super Bowl Appearances, including two victories. Kelly and the Buffalo Bills went to four Super Bowls. Marino led the Dolphins to one. Even Tony Eason, perhaps the second least accomplished member of the 1983 quarterback sextet was a Super Bowl starter with the Patriots. The Jets Ken O'Brien had a decent career. The only dud was the Chiefs' Todd Blackledge. Others elected to the Hall of Fame drafted in 1983 were running back Eric Dickerson, offensive lineman Bruce Matthews, defensive back (and fastest man in the NFL) Darrell Green and defensive end Richard Dent. All but Dent were drafted in the first round.The NFL Draft with the second most number of quarterbacks selected in the first round was 1999 with five. That group had far fewer career accomplishments with only the Eagles' Donavon McNabb (one Super Bowl appearance) having much success. The other quarterbacks taken in the first round in 1999 were: Tim Couch (Browns), Akili Smith (Bengals), Daunte Culpepper (Vikings) and Cade McNown (Bears). Culpepper's promising career was thwarted by a devastating injury. Couch had the disadvantage of being thrown into the fire for an expansion team where he had few moments to shine. Smith and McNown were not NFL caliber players or personalities."
As I have been saying for months a good supply of QB's does not happen when you want or need/demand. When the supply is low it leads to reaches as we saw with Ponder. Now I have no idea if Spelly/staff think there is a franchise QB in this draft but if they do then they should seize the moment with or without Kirk as our starter.
I don't think it would be the worst scenario at all to have drafted a QB in round 1 and still retain Kirk. His contract is prohibitive but it is a sunk cost at this point and a rookie QB contract is usually not bad so our overall QB expenditure would not be crazy.
Now the 49'er situation is interesting although I think very very unlikely for the reasons above. But how would that scenario breakdown in terms of money and comp? I don't really have a full understanding on a trade like this? Do the 49'ers absorb the full cost of our dead money for Kirk - 2021 is 41million and 2022 is 10million. Then we absorb Jimmy G's ?? I am curious about the numbers. Are the teams then able to restructure/renegotiate the contract with the QB. Not knowing the $$$ difference makes it difficult for me to know what draft picks comps.
I keep hearing this (the bold) but I can't even fathom that this is a factor. Fans think like that, not leaders of 3 billion dollar companies. If that was ever a factor in any decision, the guy should be fired on the spot. I can pretty much guarantee that will not be part of the decision. Not because I know him, but because it would be utterly ridiculous. All players and player transactions are like buying and selling stock. You're going to win some and lose some. And if you dwell on a failure (if you can even call it that), then you're better off hosting am radio not running a franchise.
I don't know how you make the contracts work, but that's Rob's job not mine. Ignoring that, I would be all for this trade if you could get the 49ers 1st rounder (12), then turn 12, 14, next year's 1st, the Mall of America and the city of Edina into DeShaun Watson.
Think about that: Dalvin, Jefferson, Watson....I need a towel.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
I agree and said the same above your post. That said I still don't think we should rule out drafting a QB in round 1. My supply/demand theory (ponder reach) vs Favre/Rodgers. I don't think having Cousins/rookie QB is such a bad thing.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I will put it to rest. The Vikings have absolutely zero interest in trading Kirk Cousins. It doesn't matter if the 49ers want him, he isn't available. I also feel very confident that the 49ers would not offer the 12th pick straight up with Kirk.
Well, I guess that's that. Geoff, let me ask you this...what's the general consensus inside the building regarding Cousins (meaning from management, coaches, players)? Is it mostly positive, and does the team believe Cousins is the guy to take them to a Super Bowl?
|
