Matt Ryan
Phillip Rivers
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
this is the list of QBs that Harris picked off last season... thats not exactly feasting on inexperience, Harris did a great job of baiting those throws and making the play on good/great QBs.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
Matt Ryan
Phillip Rivers
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
this is the list of QBs that Harris picked off last season... thats not exactly feasting on inexperience, Harris did a great job of baiting those throws and making the play on good/great QBs.
not to argue your point, but the Wilson INT was a stupid decision by Wilson to bat a batted ball forward rather than spike it into the ground. (Perhaps he was trying, but being too short, he failed?)And Rivers threw how many INTs that day?
But yes, Harris was in the right place and made some nice plays on those INTs. I don't recall Rodgers, but of course that one was sweet. He only threw a handful of picks, so that was significant. Brees as well.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Matt Ryan
Phillip Rivers
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
this is the list of QBs that Harris picked off last season... thats not exactly feasting on inexperience, Harris did a great job of baiting those throws and making the play on good/great QBs.
not to argue your point, but the Wilson INT was a stupid decision by Wilson to bat a batted ball forward rather than spike it into the ground. (Perhaps he was trying, but being too short, he failed?)And Rivers threw how many INTs that day?
But yes, Harris was in the right place and made some nice plays on those INTs. I don't recall Rodgers, but of course that one was sweet. He only threw a handful of picks, so that was significant. Brees as well.
wilsons was a bit flukey, but he saw the play and came up to make it.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Wonder where the numbers at off? Years? Dollars? Bonus? All of the above? Do they want to see him do it for another year?
Vikings may want to first see what they have in their drafted safeties and corners who might play safety. They may also want to see what the Dalvin Cook money looks like before committing to Harris long term.
I agree with you Bells...I think his extension is contingent on Dalvin's numbers. Dalvin is statistically much more important to the overall success of the Vikings, but Harris is a dang good safety and I would like to see him on the team for the next 4 years.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Wonder where the numbers at off? Years? Dollars? Bonus? All of the above? Do they want to see him do it for another year?
Vikings may want to first see what they have in their drafted safeties and corners who might play safety. They may also want to see what the Dalvin Cook money looks like before committing to Harris long term.
I agree with you Bells...I think his extension is contingent on Dalvin's numbers. Dalvin is statistically much more important to the overall success of the Vikings, but Harris is a dang good safety and I would like to see him on the team for the next 4 years.
while Cook is the better player at his position (when available) , I would argue though that the falloff from Dalvin to Mattison is much less than Harris to what ever unknowns we have behind him.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Wonder where the numbers at off? Years? Dollars? Bonus? All of the above? Do they want to see him do it for another year?
Vikings may want to first see what they have in their drafted safeties and corners who might play safety. They may also want to see what the Dalvin Cook money looks like before committing to Harris long term.
I agree with you Bells...I think his extension is contingent on Dalvin's numbers. Dalvin is statistically much more important to the overall success of the Vikings, but Harris is a dang good safety and I would like to see him on the team for the next 4 years.
while Cook is the better player at his position (when available) , I would argue though that the falloff from Dalvin to Mattison is much less than Harris to what ever unknowns we have behind him.
I mean that statement is huge stretch for a couple of reasons. First off, you included the unkown...we have no idea who that person would be and how successful they could be in Zimmer's defense. Zimmer took Harris from ST to a top tier starter, you dont think he could make another guy pretty good next to Harry? He took 7th round Jayron Kearse and made him a highly graded safety last year too. Second, I really like what Mattison did last year, but all stats from 2019 proved Dalvin to be a top 3 running back. Dalvin's ability to do things as a receiver opens up so much for the offense and we don't really know how efficient Mattison can be as a receiver, although I don't have many doubts.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Wonder where the numbers at off? Years? Dollars? Bonus? All of the above? Do they want to see him do it for another year?
Vikings may want to first see what they have in their drafted safeties and corners who might play safety. They may also want to see what the Dalvin Cook money looks like before committing to Harris long term.
I agree with you Bells...I think his extension is contingent on Dalvin's numbers. Dalvin is statistically much more important to the overall success of the Vikings, but Harris is a dang good safety and I would like to see him on the team for the next 4 years.
while Cook is the better player at his position (when available) , I would argue though that the falloff from Dalvin to Mattison is much less than Harris to what ever unknowns we have behind him.
I mean that statement is huge stretch for a couple of reasons. First off, you included the unkown...we have no idea who that person would be and how successful they could be in Zimmer's defense. Zimmer took Harris from ST to a top tier starter, you dont think he could make another guy pretty good next to Harry? He took 7th round Jayron Kearse and made him a highly graded safety last year too. Second, I really like what Mattison did last year, but all stats from 2019 proved Dalvin to be a top 3 running back. Dalvin's ability to do things as a receiver opens up so much for the offense and we don't really know how efficient Mattison can be as a receiver, although I don't have many doubts.
NO stretch at all. Harris and Kearse took several years to develop into what you are talking about and if you want to look at stats, Mattisons stats are not far behind Cook, I say there is a drop off, but not likely nearly the drop off between Harris and a late round rookie. Speaking of drop offs, how about the drop off that RBs show in their later 20s vs safeties that can play at a high level much longer?
I am not advocating Harris over Cook as I dont think that decision needs to be made, but IMO Cook is easier to replace and is the higher risk extension with his injury history, especially considering the track record of the RB position in Kubiaks offenses being pretty much plug and play, vs finding studs to jump in a kill it in Zimmers D without screwing it up.
In Brez I trust, they will get both of them locked up.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Wonder where the numbers at off? Years? Dollars? Bonus? All of the above? Do they want to see him do it for another year?
Vikings may want to first see what they have in their drafted safeties and corners who might play safety. They may also want to see what the Dalvin Cook money looks like before committing to Harris long term.
I agree with you Bells...I think his extension is contingent on Dalvin's numbers. Dalvin is statistically much more important to the overall success of the Vikings, but Harris is a dang good safety and I would like to see him on the team for the next 4 years.
while Cook is the better player at his position (when available) , I would argue though that the falloff from Dalvin to Mattison is much less than Harris to what ever unknowns we have behind him.
I mean that statement is huge stretch for a couple of reasons. First off, you included the unkown...we have no idea who that person would be and how successful they could be in Zimmer's defense. Zimmer took Harris from ST to a top tier starter, you dont think he could make another guy pretty good next to Harry? He took 7th round Jayron Kearse and made him a highly graded safety last year too. Second, I really like what Mattison did last year, but all stats from 2019 proved Dalvin to be a top 3 running back. Dalvin's ability to do things as a receiver opens up so much for the offense and we don't really know how efficient Mattison can be as a receiver, although I don't have many doubts.
NO stretch at all. Harris and Kearse took several years to develop into what you are talking about and if you want to look at stats, Mattisons stats are not far behind Cook, I say there is a drop off, but not likely nearly the drop off between Harris and a late round rookie. Speaking of drop offs, how about the drop off that RBs show in their later 20s vs safeties that can play at a high level much longer?
I am not advocating Harris over Cook as I dont think that decision needs to be made, but IMO Cook is easier to replace and is the higher risk extension with his injury history, especially considering the track record of the RB position in Kubiaks offenses being pretty much plug and play, vs finding studs to jump in a kill it in Zimmers D without screwing it up.
I guess i was referring to advanced stats that show how well the offense does when Dalvin is on the field vs when he is not. I'm not advocating for one over the other either, but Zimmer is pretty dang good at developing secondary players so I would feel confident he could find a sufficient replacement. It is an unknown so this is way more pointless to argue than Dalvin vs. Mattison because you know what you're getting.
Kubiak is quite good with RB's which is a big reason as to why I am excited for the season as a healthy Dalvin might be 1st or 2nd team All Pro.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Wonder where the numbers at off? Years? Dollars? Bonus? All of the above? Do they want to see him do it for another year?
Vikings may want to first see what they have in their drafted safeties and corners who might play safety. They may also want to see what the Dalvin Cook money looks like before committing to Harris long term.
I agree with you Bells...I think his extension is contingent on Dalvin's numbers. Dalvin is statistically much more important to the overall success of the Vikings, but Harris is a dang good safety and I would like to see him on the team for the next 4 years.
while Cook is the better player at his position (when available) , I would argue though that the falloff from Dalvin to Mattison is much less than Harris to what ever unknowns we have behind him.
I mean that statement is huge stretch for a couple of reasons. First off, you included the unkown...we have no idea who that person would be and how successful they could be in Zimmer's defense. Zimmer took Harris from ST to a top tier starter, you dont think he could make another guy pretty good next to Harry? He took 7th round Jayron Kearse and made him a highly graded safety last year too. Second, I really like what Mattison did last year, but all stats from 2019 proved Dalvin to be a top 3 running back. Dalvin's ability to do things as a receiver opens up so much for the offense and we don't really know how efficient Mattison can be as a receiver, although I don't have many doubts.
NO stretch at all. Harris and Kearse took several years to develop into what you are talking about and if you want to look at stats, Mattisons stats are not far behind Cook, I say there is a drop off, but not likely nearly the drop off between Harris and a late round rookie. Speaking of drop offs, how about the drop off that RBs show in their later 20s vs safeties that can play at a high level much longer?
I am not advocating Harris over Cook as I dont think that decision needs to be made, but IMO Cook is easier to replace and is the higher risk extension with his injury history, especially considering the track record of the RB position in Kubiaks offenses being pretty much plug and play, vs finding studs to jump in a kill it in Zimmers D without screwing it up.
I guess i was referring to advanced stats that show how well the offense does when Dalvin is on the field vs when he is not. I'm not advocating for one over the other either, but Zimmer is pretty dang good at developing secondary players so I would feel confident he could find a sufficient replacement. It is an unknown so this is way more pointless to argue than Dalvin vs. Mattison because you know what you're getting.
Kubiak is quite good with RB's which is a big reason as to why I am excited for the season as a healthy Dalvin might be 1st or 2nd team All Pro.
yeah... we've been hearing how good Zim is in developing DBs, but as he likes to say, enough about the labor, show me the baby. we havent seen much proof in him developing DBs outside of early round players. even Harris would have been taken much higher if he hadnt been injured his last year in college. He has a rookie 6th and a 7th round draft pick as well as college free agent behind our starting safeties.
as far as stats, advance or other, its pretty hard to say the o is "X" amount better based on who is on the field because that doesnt take into game situations like play calling or other things out of the players control, but either way, I would say right now Harris is every bit as important to the D as Cook is to the O from a performance over replacement stand point. maybe we will have found a steal in one of those late round rookie safeties, but we know we have a stud in Mattison already.
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