Vikings need to draft offensive linemen

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@silverjoel said:
The Vikings have drafted 7 OL in the last 3 years (7 out of 31 picks, more than any position group), including one with one of their top two picks each year.  They've also brought in like five OL by FA or trade (I'm guessing again the most).  What more do you want them to do?  They'll probably draft another three this year and bring in at least one FA, is that going to be enough?

Considering that you have to have 5 starters... and at least 2 serviceable back-ups... I don't think it is unreasonable to spend put alot of attention into the position, especially since we're weak there.  There's only 1 QB... 1 HB... 2-3 WRs... 1-2 TEs... 2 CBs... 2 Safeties... and 3 (at most) LBs.  We rotate DL.  But we need 5 starters on the OL. 

7 out of 31 = 23%
5 starters out of 22 = 23%

Seems about right.

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@JimmyinSD said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Going back 2 off-seasons or even to just last off-season, there needs to be an expectation that it takes time to build an O-line. You can't just plug 5 new guys in and start up the engine. 

But I agree they still need to add talent and I don't have any doubt they will. But you can't become so narrowly focused on the O-line you start ignoring the D-line or Secondary. There is a balance or you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul and you're back to having the same issue at a different position group. 

As of today I think you have O'Neill & Bradbury as long-term cornerstones with the former needing a new deal next off-season. So they'll find some cost control at OT this year I'd imagine, its how the Vikings roll. Guard is up for debate. They valued Bradbury as a premium draft pick but they haven't consistently shown that they want to spend premium assets on guards. 

thats kind of why they are where they are at the last couple years... our interior OL play has been horrible and it starts with the play on either side of the C.

A lot of teams take this approach to some success. 49ers are a good example of it. 

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@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:
Going back 2 off-seasons or even to just last off-season, there needs to be an expectation that it takes time to build an O-line. You can't just plug 5 new guys in and start up the engine. 

But I agree they still need to add talent and I don't have any doubt they will. But you can't become so narrowly focused on the O-line you start ignoring the D-line or Secondary. There is a balance or you end up robbing Peter to pay Paul and you're back to having the same issue at a different position group. 

As of today I think you have O'Neill & Bradbury as long-term cornerstones with the former needing a new deal next off-season. So they'll find some cost control at OT this year I'd imagine, its how the Vikings roll. Guard is up for debate. They valued Bradbury as a premium draft pick but they haven't consistently shown that they want to spend premium assets on guards. 

thats kind of why they are where they are at the last couple years... our interior OL play has been horrible and it starts with the play on either side of the C.

A lot of teams take this approach to some success. 49ers are a good example of it. 

then they have done a much better job than Rick at it.... our OGs have sucked for quite a while.  Kline was a nice addition last year,  a rookie OT/OG early that can compete with Reiff and adding a veteran OG coupled with Samia and we should be in a great position though so IMO we arent that far off now....but they need to keep looking,  injuries will happen as we should know more than anybody else.

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I have a difficult time understanding why the Vikes have, rather recently, struggled in keeping 5 quality OL starters.  Looking at some of our better years, we had some tremendous guards and tackles and have had some legendary centers.  But now years of mediocrity and inconsistent play have, IMHO, crippled our seasons and have limited some of our better offensive weapons.  

I understand that having 5 All-Pro linemen is not realistic or affordable, but to Pumpf's point, I hate to see us settle at arguably the most critical point of the offense.  Watching KC getting mauled last year with Elf playing as if on roller skates is frightening.  The Cowboys historic years and more recently the Patriots golden era saw great depth on those O lines.  I long for that consistency with the Vikes.

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@pumpf said:

@silverjoel said:
The Vikings have drafted 7 OL in the last 3 years (7 out of 31 picks, more than any position group), including one with one of their top two picks each year.  They've also brought in like five OL by FA or trade (I'm guessing again the most).  What more do you want them to do?  They'll probably draft another three this year and bring in at least one FA, is that going to be enough?

Considering that you have to have 5 starters... and at least 2 serviceable back-ups... I don't think it is unreasonable to spend put alot of attention into the position, especially since we're weak there.  There's only 1 QB... 1 HB... 2-3 WRs... 1-2 TEs... 2 CBs... 2 Safeties... and 3 (at most) LBs.  We rotate DL.  But we need 5 starters on the OL. 

7 out of 31 = 23%
5 starters out of 22 = 23%

Seems about right.

So, they're doing it right, that's pretty much what I said.  Why all the bitching then?

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Vikings need to draft offensive linemen

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@silverjoel said:
The Vikings have drafted 7 OL in the last 3 years (7 out of 31 picks, more than any position group), including one with one of their top two picks each year.  They've also brought in like five OL by FA or trade (I'm guessing again the most).  What more do you want them to do?  They'll probably draft another three this year and bring in at least one FA, is that going to be enough?

But before 2017, the Vikings drafted 12 OL in 7 years, and only 1, Matt Kalil, was picked in the first 3 rounds. For 5 starting positions, that's extremely low. Some years the team only picked one guy (Willie Beavers 2016, David Yankey 2014). Above all: not a single offensive lineman the Vikings drafted (or any UDFA) prior to 2017 is still on the roster.

It's good that there have been more draft picks recently, but the combination of inattention and poor scouting the Vikings had with OL doesn't get fixed quickly. It's going to take OVERemphasizing it for a few years. The last - I think the only - lineman Spielman picked after the 3rd round who became a starter here was Brandon Fusco, so how confident are we that Samia, Udoh, and maybe some linemen picked with the extra 5th- and 6th-rounders from the Diggs trade will make any difference?

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@Jor-El said:

@silverjoel said:
The Vikings have drafted 7 OL in the last 3 years (7 out of 31 picks, more than any position group), including one with one of their top two picks each year.  They've also brought in like five OL by FA or trade (I'm guessing again the most).  What more do you want them to do?  They'll probably draft another three this year and bring in at least one FA, is that going to be enough?

But before 2017, the Vikings drafted 12 OL in 7 years, and only 1, Matt Kalil, was picked in the first 3 rounds. For 5 starting positions, that's extremely low. Some years the team only picked one guy (Willie Beavers 2016, David Yankey 2014). Above all: not a single offensive lineman the Vikings drafted (or any UDFA) prior to 2017 is still on the roster.

It's good that there have been more draft picks recently, but the combination of inattention and poor scouting the Vikings had with OL doesn't get fixed quickly. It's going to take OVERemphasizing it for a few years. The last - I think the only - lineman Spielman picked after the 3rd round who became a starter here was Brandon Fusco, so how confident are we that Samia, Udoh, and maybe some linemen picked with the extra 5th- and 6th-rounders from the Diggs trade will make any difference?

Gonna push back on last year's picks. Rick Dennison and Gary Kubiak had input on those picks, same as with Bradbury. And signing Kline and Dozier.

And though not a huge sample size. Samia and Udoh players the entire 16th game, against the big bads from Chicago. 

They are clearly not of the same ilk as Clemmings or Yankey/Beaver.

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@FSUVike said:

@Jor-El said:

@silverjoel said:
The Vikings have drafted 7 OL in the last 3 years (7 out of 31 picks, more than any position group), including one with one of their top two picks each year.  They've also brought in like five OL by FA or trade (I'm guessing again the most).  What more do you want them to do?  They'll probably draft another three this year and bring in at least one FA, is that going to be enough?

But before 2017, the Vikings drafted 12 OL in 7 years, and only 1, Matt Kalil, was picked in the first 3 rounds. For 5 starting positions, that's extremely low. Some years the team only picked one guy (Willie Beavers 2016, David Yankey 2014). Above all: not a single offensive lineman the Vikings drafted (or any UDFA) prior to 2017 is still on the roster.

It's good that there have been more draft picks recently, but the combination of inattention and poor scouting the Vikings had with OL doesn't get fixed quickly. It's going to take OVERemphasizing it for a few years. The last - I think the only - lineman Spielman picked after the 3rd round who became a starter here was Brandon Fusco, so how confident are we that Samia, Udoh, and maybe some linemen picked with the extra 5th- and 6th-rounders from the Diggs trade will make any difference?

Gonna push back on last year's picks. Rick Dennison and Gary Kubiak had input on those picks, same as with Bradbury. And signing Kline and Dozier.

And though not a huge sample size. Samia and Udoh players the entire 16th game, against the big bads from Chicago. 

They are clearly not of the same ilk as Clemmings or Yankey/Beaver.

And I'm totally willing to hold out hope regarding Samia and Udoh, because of the reasons you cited - but "the jury is undecided" is still generous considering the history of the organization on the OL. One other thing that should give everyone pause: by any honest evaluation, Garret Bradbury had a worse rookie season than Matt Kalil. Yeah, it doesn't mean Bradbury won't improve and be a great player. But, even with Dennison and Kubiak in place last spring, we got: modest rookie performance from Bradbury, no contribution from Samia despite predictions he was a steal in the 4th, and a complete failure in the decision to shift Elflein to LG. None of those improve my confidence in Kubiak/Dennison. Sure, they got good results from Kline and even Dozier, but I give them a "C" for "fixing the OL in 2019". Jury is still out.

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Man it would be great if somehow Udoh could be the swing tackle this year. Not sure if he's there yet.