Roe v Wade struck down by SCOTUS

[Guest]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/02/health/ab...index.html

[Guest]

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:
Only Idaho has a rape/incest exception because revictimization is apparently acceptable.

rapists and abusers love abortion.  It covers up their crime.  Proud of Idaho.

Lets just have the rape victims keep pregnancies they never had any choice on. The victim should keep the pregancy because its proof. Of what exactly? That she was raped or that the baby is a result if a rape? Who cares what the victim thinks ir feels anyway?

Sure because our lived experience is not enough. I was working with a 12 year old that was raped. She is not overjoyed about the pregnancy. I discussed her options with her. She was brought to the United States for work. She is angry (her words). Is she not supposed to feel that? It's not all rainbows and sparkle ponies. The doctor is very concerned about her physical and mental condition. It's amazing how simple it is for people not experiencing these situations. The police officer did respect her when she said she did not want to talk to a male officer so there is that.

I said rapists and abusers love abortion.  

The trauma experienced by the girl/woman that suffered the rape is not dismissed.  But one must understand that abortion is traumatic for the woman as well, that is ignored by the pro-aborts.  Woman are treated like property, like cattle.  Hustled in, treated and then sent away.

Yeah I read your post about covering up their crime, but most young girls and women are trying to think about what they need to do to move forward. Women's clinics and Planned Parenthoods have done great follow up and after care post abortion. They followed up with me a year afterwards. There is ongoing follow up and support. There are phenomenal people that treat women with dignity and respect. I have had some negative interactions with the so-called crisis pregnancy centers. I have rarely dealt with a woman regretting an abortion but it happens. I have also dealt with women regretting taking a pregnancy to term. There are hard choices to be made. Some women regret adoption. It is an individual experience. Regardless of the decision, the woman has the right to decide what is best for her. 

That is all fine, but recognize this is just 2nd hand experiential info.

Many young girls are driven to PP by abusers or ashamed parents.  I have worked with wonderful crisis pregnancy centers, thankfully have no real experience with PP.  

I agree the woman has a right to decide what is best for her, with the exception of taking an innocent life. 

It is the experience of young girls and women that they share with me, I respect and appreciate their sharing and will not dismiss it. We discuss all the options. They decide and I respect that. Some decide to carry the pregnancy to term. Some decide on adoption and some decide to parent. Some decide on abortion. The women have that right. I am there to support and provide resources. 

Right? Who gave them that right to kill their baby?

I empathize in cases of rape and incest, and am fine with that being a place where the law should allow it,  but this word "right" gets thrown out pretty freely.  Who decides who gets what rights?  God's are pretty easy to find for those that want to follow that direction,  the founding fathers of this country seemed pretty cut and dry until "educated " people tried to add the right to interpret as they see fit and bastardized the constitution to fit their desires.   So where does the right to kill babies come from?

I guess I simply can't stand by reading anymore. 
Well for 50 years the Supreme Court upheld this protection of personal choice. Now it doesn't. 
Kill a baby? Let's examine that word first. A baby by definition is a infant child.

Definition of baby (Entry 1 of 3)

1a(1): an extremely young child especially : INFANT

Definition of infant (Entry 1 of 2)

1: a child in the first period of life

Something you can hold coo with and cuddle. So at what point inside the womb is this happening? 24 weeks? 15 weeks? So that's been the real question mark. At which point is a fetus a baby? When it able to sustain life on it's own? You know be an actual baby...and yes I'm well aware of the Latin meaning of the word fetus. No country speaks Latin anymore. Just words mixed in with other languages. 

Where does the constitution say execution of criminals is a states right? It upheld states right over an individuals rights against cruel and unusual punishment. So it's an interpretation of states rights ain't it? You know their job as SC justices.This for 50 years was an individuals right over the state. Hopefully it won't come to punishment of individuals crossing state lines to have procedures done banned in their state. It simply can't. Can it??

The constitution was created to divide the powers of the government.  To protect the rights of the states from the government. Then protect the rights of the individuals. So the real argument here is when is the fetus an individual with equal rights as the adult carrying it? Many, most don't think it is until it can sustain life on it's own.
This states rights thing is the most screamed about aspect of out constitution. I always preferred the individuals. So we must answer. At what point is something an individual?  Maybe when it can be undivided from it's host and survive individually?

For 50 years this was upheld as an individuals right over a: not yet baby...by definition. 
This killing babies rhetoric is just inflammatory attention getting misuse of a definition. It's not truly a baby until it's born. Sorry let's be real if we're gonna be real.

Lastly I believe conservatives really liked this better as a talking point then actually the thing they tried for 50 years coming to pass. Now they seem worried about the fall out from mobilization of progressives and moderates who for years, 50 actually, liked it the way it was. Welcome to your tiny island. Your constant pursuit of all inclusiveness just took another big hit.

Good luck with that. This is why I typically bow out of these threads.

[Guest]

@"mblack" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:
Only Idaho has a rape/incest exception because revictimization is apparently acceptable.

rapists and abusers love abortion.  It covers up their crime.  Proud of Idaho.

Lets just have the rape victims keep pregnancies they never had any choice on. The victim should keep the pregancy because its proof. Of what exactly? That she was raped or that the baby is a result if a rape? Who cares what the victim thinks ir feels anyway?

Sure because our lived experience is not enough. I was working with a 12 year old that was raped. She is not overjoyed about the pregnancy. I discussed her options with her. She was brought to the United States for work. She is angry (her words). Is she not supposed to feel that? It's not all rainbows and sparkle ponies. The doctor is very concerned about her physical and mental condition. It's amazing how simple it is for people not experiencing these situations. The police officer did respect her when she said she did not want to talk to a male officer so there is that.

I said rapists and abusers love abortion.  

The trauma experienced by the girl/woman that suffered the rape is not dismissed.  But one must understand that abortion is traumatic for the woman as well, that is ignored by the pro-aborts.  Woman are treated like property, like cattle.  Hustled in, treated and then sent away.

Yeah I read your post about covering up their crime, but most young girls and women are trying to think about what they need to do to move forward. Women's clinics and Planned Parenthoods have done great follow up and after care post abortion. They followed up with me a year afterwards. There is ongoing follow up and support. There are phenomenal people that treat women with dignity and respect. I have had some negative interactions with the so-called crisis pregnancy centers. I have rarely dealt with a woman regretting an abortion but it happens. I have also dealt with women regretting taking a pregnancy to term. There are hard choices to be made. Some women regret adoption. It is an individual experience. Regardless of the decision, the woman has the right to decide what is best for her. 

That is all fine, but recognize this is just 2nd hand experiential info.

Many young girls are driven to PP by abusers or ashamed parents.  I have worked with wonderful crisis pregnancy centers, thankfully have no real experience with PP.  

I agree the woman has a right to decide what is best for her, with the exception of taking an innocent life. 

It is the experience of young girls and women that they share with me, I respect and appreciate their sharing and will not dismiss it. We discuss all the options. They decide and I respect that. Some decide to carry the pregnancy to term. Some decide on adoption and some decide to parent. Some decide on abortion. The women have that right. I am there to support and provide resources. 

Right? Who gave them that right to kill their baby?

I empathize in cases of rape and incest, and am fine with that being a place where the law should allow it,  but this word "right" gets thrown out pretty freely.  Who decides who gets what rights?  God's are pretty easy to find for those that want to follow that direction,  the founding fathers of this country seemed pretty cut and dry until "educated " people tried to add the right to interpret as they see fit and bastardized the constitution to fit their desires.   So where does the right to kill babies come from?

At the bold…
Question: Who gave others the right to have an opinion about “their” baby.
Atleast it is theirs (or in their body) so they should have a say don’t you think?
People dont want women to have an opinion about a pregnancy they are carrying but are quick to tell those same women that they have no right to make any decisions about thie pregnancy. So again why are people who have nothing to do about a pregnancy feel they have the right to make a decision about the pregnancy.

Who is claiming that is a right?  I'm not, nobody else is.  But the pro baby killers keep talking about it being a right,  I am just curious where that right comes from?  It's not God,  it's not the US Constitution,   so where was this right granted that they keep claiming?  As of now,  some states can grant that right if they so choose,  other countries also,   but the drama over this being a right is a joke.  Its not a right,  its a want.  Nobody has a federal right to kill their unborn child is all the Supreme Court is saying.

So we are back to where we started. The Supreme court is saying...

No,  we are back to them doing their job and upholding the constitution,   not rewriting it to placate the wims of society.  Pretty cut and dry,  if you want abortion to be a federally protected "right"  there is a procedure to make it happen.  Our Govt has been playing fast and loose with the constitution and the powers it grants and doesn't grant for to long ( both parties )  its time to get back to having a govt that works within the boundaries of the document by which it was founded.

[Guest]

ba·by  (bā′bē)

n. pl. ba·bies

1.

a. A very young child; an infant.b. An unborn child; a fetus.c. The youngest member of a family or group.d. A very young animal.

2. An adult or young person who behaves in an infantile way.

I guess I simply can't stand by reading anymore. 
Well for 50 years the Supreme Court upheld this protection of personal choice. Now it doesn't. 
Kill a baby? Let's examine that word first. A baby by definition is a infant child.

Definition of baby (Entry 1 of 3)

1a(1): an extremely young child especially : INFANT

Definition of infant (Entry 1 of 2)

1: a child in the first period of life

Something you can hold coo with and cuddle. So at what point inside the womb is this happening? 24 weeks? 15 weeks? So that's been the real question mark. At which point is a fetus a baby? When it able to sustain life on it's own? You know be an actual baby...and yes I'm well aware of the Latin meaning of the word fetus. No country speaks Latin anymore. Just words mixed in with other languages. 

Where does the constitution say execution of criminals is a states right? It upheld states right over an individuals rights against cruel and unusual punishment. So it's an interpretation of states rights ain't it? You know their job as SC justices.This for 50 years was an individuals right over the state. Hopefully it won't come to punishment of individuals crossing state lines to have procedures done banned in their state. It simply can't. Can it??

The constitution was created to divide the powers of the government.  To protect the rights of the states from the government. Then protect the rights of the individuals. So the real argument here is when is the fetus an individual with equal rights as the adult carrying it? Many, most don't think it is until it can sustain life on it's own.
This states rights thing is the most screamed about aspect of out constitution. I always preferred the individuals. So we must answer. At what point is something an individual?  Maybe when it can be undivided from it's host and survive individually?

For 50 years this was upheld as an individuals right over a: not yet baby...by definition. 
This killing babies rhetoric is just inflammatory attention getting misuse of a definition. It's not truly a baby until it's born. Sorry let's be real if we're gonna be real.

Lastly I believe conservatives really liked this better as a talking point then actually the thing they tried for 50 years coming to pass. Now they seem worried about the fall out from mobilization of progressives and moderates who for years, 50 actually, liked it the way it was. Welcome to your tiny island. Your constant pursuit of all inclusiveness just took another big hit.

Hey Suncoast.  Good to see you.  Just curious on why you only picked part of the definition of baby?  Certainly, one of the definitions of baby is as you described.

Here's the full definition:

ba·by  (bā′bē)n. pl. ba·bies

b. An unborn child; a fetus.c. The youngest member of a family or group.d. A very young animal.

2. An adult or young person who behaves in an infantile way.

Baby is used all the time to describe a fetus.  We've all used it that way.  The first time your wife feels the baby move...did she say "I felt the baby kick" or did she say "I felt the non-descript glob of cells move"?

fe·tus

/ˈfēdəs/

noun

1. an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.  

So...by the very definition of the word...after 8 weeks...we are indeed talking about killing babies.  Parsing the definition or pretending differently may make people feel better about supporting (and celebrating) abortion up to the day of birth....but it's not the truth.

The survivability argument used frequently by abortion supporters is also a little suspect.  Leave a baby alone for a few days and see how they do.

As I said earlier in this thread, I hope both sides can find some common ground on the subject in this increasingly polarized World.

[Guest]

@"Vikergirl" said:
Closing clinics due to the ruling is also going to deny women and men access to additional health care such as breast cancer screenings, birth control, pregnancy testing, testing for sexually transmitted diseases, services for HIV and AIDS, counseling for mental health and other services but I guess that doesn't matter. 

If that is what they were for, they wouldn't close.

[Guest]

@"BigAl99" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:


gotta love Masters of the Universe memes.

This is a display of real conservative thinking,  the severe inbred right wing self righteousness when making light of complex issues.  Moving beyond this, infants stop biting when they can express themselves with their own words.   May your daughter never have to make a choice because of a stranger, family or death, real funny shit.

So you support mega corps now?  Yeah they are supporting killing babies out of the goodness of their greedy corporate hearts.

[Guest]

@"mblack" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"mblack" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:
Only Idaho has a rape/incest exception because revictimization is apparently acceptable.

rapists and abusers love abortion.  It covers up their crime.  Proud of Idaho.

Lets just have the rape victims keep pregnancies they never had any choice on. The victim should keep the pregancy because its proof. Of what exactly? That she was raped or that the baby is a result if a rape? Who cares what the victim thinks ir feels anyway?

Sure because our lived experience is not enough. I was working with a 12 year old that was raped. She is not overjoyed about the pregnancy. I discussed her options with her. She was brought to the United States for work. She is angry (her words). Is she not supposed to feel that? It's not all rainbows and sparkle ponies. The doctor is very concerned about her physical and mental condition. It's amazing how simple it is for people not experiencing these situations. The police officer did respect her when she said she did not want to talk to a male officer so there is that.

I said rapists and abusers love abortion.  

The trauma experienced by the girl/woman that suffered the rape is not dismissed.  But one must understand that abortion is traumatic for the woman as well, that is ignored by the pro-aborts.  Woman are treated like property, like cattle.  Hustled in, treated and then sent away.

Yeah I read your post about covering up their crime, but most young girls and women are trying to think about what they need to do to move forward. Women's clinics and Planned Parenthoods have done great follow up and after care post abortion. They followed up with me a year afterwards. There is ongoing follow up and support. There are phenomenal people that treat women with dignity and respect. I have had some negative interactions with the so-called crisis pregnancy centers. I have rarely dealt with a woman regretting an abortion but it happens. I have also dealt with women regretting taking a pregnancy to term. There are hard choices to be made. Some women regret adoption. It is an individual experience. Regardless of the decision, the woman has the right to decide what is best for her. 

That is all fine, but recognize this is just 2nd hand experiential info.

Many young girls are driven to PP by abusers or ashamed parents.  I have worked with wonderful crisis pregnancy centers, thankfully have no real experience with PP.  

I agree the woman has a right to decide what is best for her, with the exception of taking an innocent life. 

It is the experience of young girls and women that they share with me, I respect and appreciate their sharing and will not dismiss it. We discuss all the options. They decide and I respect that. Some decide to carry the pregnancy to term. Some decide on adoption and some decide to parent. Some decide on abortion. The women have that right. I am there to support and provide resources. 

Right? Who gave them that right to kill their baby?

I empathize in cases of rape and incest, and am fine with that being a place where the law should allow it,  but this word "right" gets thrown out pretty freely.  Who decides who gets what rights?  God's are pretty easy to find for those that want to follow that direction,  the founding fathers of this country seemed pretty cut and dry until "educated " people tried to add the right to interpret as they see fit and bastardized the constitution to fit their desires.   So where does the right to kill babies come from?

At the bold…
Question: Who gave others the right to have an opinion about “their” baby.
Atleast it is theirs (or in their body) so they should have a say don’t you think?
People dont want women to have an opinion about a pregnancy they are carrying but are quick to tell those same women that they have no right to make any decisions about thie pregnancy. So again why are people who have nothing to do about a pregnancy feel they have the right to make a decision about the pregnancy.

Who is claiming that is a right?  I'm not, nobody else is.  But the pro baby killers keep talking about it being a right,  I am just curious where that right comes from?  It's not God,  it's not the US Constitution,   so where was this right granted that they keep claiming?  As of now,  some states can grant that right if they so choose,  other countries also,   but the drama over this being a right is a joke.  Its not a right,  its a want.  Nobody has a federal right to kill their unborn child is all the Supreme Court is saying.

So we are back to where we started. The Supreme court is saying...

Nope.  They ruled that there is no federal right.  That is what the supreme court is supposed to rule on.

[Guest]

@"Vikergirl" said:
Closing clinics due to the ruling is also going to deny women and men access to additional health care such as breast cancer screenings, birth control, pregnancy testing, testing for sexually transmitted diseases, services for HIV and AIDS, counseling for mental health and other services but I guess that doesn't matter. 

Why is the first talking point on PP almost always breast cancer screenings...which PP doesn't do?  I'm guessing it's to normalize the facilities as "women's health" facilities.  Having spent much of my life volunteering in the shelters here in Madison and in Chicago prior, PP is by and large overwhelmingly an abortion provider.  They will provide limited testing for sexually related things like STDs.  They also prescribe birth control (including "morning after" pill) and make clinic referrals. 

[Guest]

@"badgervike" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:
Closing clinics due to the ruling is also going to deny women and men access to additional health care such as breast cancer screenings, birth control, pregnancy testing, testing for sexually transmitted diseases, services for HIV and AIDS, counseling for mental health and other services but I guess that doesn't matter. 

Why is the first talking point on PP almost always breast cancer screenings...which PP doesn't do?  I'm guessing it's to normalize the facilities as "women's health" facilities.  Having spent much of my life volunteering in the shelters here in Madison and in Chicago prior, PP is by and large overwhelmingly an abortion provider.  They will provide limited testing for sexually related things like STDs.  They also prescribe birth control (including "morning after" pill) and make clinic referrals. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolit...ment-money



I bet they're lying. 

[Guest]

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"badgervike" said:

@"Vikergirl" said:
Closing clinics due to the ruling is also going to deny women and men access to additional health care such as breast cancer screenings, birth control, pregnancy testing, testing for sexually transmitted diseases, services for HIV and AIDS, counseling for mental health and other services but I guess that doesn't matter. 

Why is the first talking point on PP almost always breast cancer screenings...which PP doesn't do?  I'm guessing it's to normalize the facilities as "women's health" facilities.  Having spent much of my life volunteering in the shelters here in Madison and in Chicago prior, PP is by and large overwhelmingly an abortion provider.  They will provide limited testing for sexually related things like STDs.  They also prescribe birth control (including "morning after" pill) and make clinic referrals. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolit...ment-money



I bet they're lying. 

They are lying.  This is the percentage allocation for PUBLIC funds to PP which is only about a third of PP funding.  They keep the abortion number low when they report taxpayer funding (for obvious reasons)...and simply charge virtually all abortion services to privately collected monies which they aren't obligated to disclose how the funds were used.  Do you REALLY believe that abortion services are only 3% of Planned Parenthood services?