Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
Just going to highlight that little bit o irony and leave it out there. Watching the behavior exhibited, you can't really believe that. Spitting on people, throwing liquids on people, punching them, assaulting them all reminds me of a previous era. But not in the same manner in which you allude. The white hoods have indeed been replaced, but not by red hats.
I don't condone violence. Violence only begets more violence. But I do think it's important to protest this man wherever he goes, if only to show the world that not all of us are so willing to let hate and white nationalism take root in America. Again.
but by dismissing their actions as simply "standing up", then you are condoning violence. This is the same actions that the KKK did. "Protesting" by physical intimidation, often leading to assault. As I said, the white hoods have been replaced.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
Just going to highlight that little bit o irony and leave it out there. Watching the behavior exhibited, you can't really believe that. Spitting on people, throwing liquids on people, punching them, assaulting them all reminds me of a previous era. But not in the same manner in which you allude. The white hoods have indeed been replaced, but not by red hats.
I don't condone violence. Violence only begets more violence. But I do think it's important to protest this man wherever he goes, if only to show the world that not all of us are so willing to let hate and white nationalism take root in America. Again.
but by dismissing their actions as simply "standing up", then you are condoning violence. This is the same actions that the KKK did. "Protesting" by physical intimidation, often leading to assault. As I said, the white hoods have been replaced.
...as you well know, the VAST majority of those protests were non-violent. We're mostly talking about school teachers and educators and social workers protesting Trump's sexual, racial, and religious bigotry. Many of them holding signs that said "Love Trumps Hate" so let's not go all Fox News on this thing.
Its interesting how this topic got the nut birds to stand up and be counted. lol
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ Poiple said:
I dont see where the publicly financed affects the 1st ammendment or the employers rights.
Does Burger Kings customers use only private roads to get to their restaurants? Do they cook those burgers using public utilities or are they generating private power? slippery slope. Lets stick with legal definitions.
Aside from a 1943 USSC in which the court ruled:
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
Now this ruling was in regards to the education system forcing children to say the pledge so it is a little different. But I will go on to say this. I do not have to like that someone does or doesn't stand to sing the national anthem. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone to not care for someone's protest, or decision to not stand for the anthem. That's all fine and dandy. But what should be much MORE infuriating is the concept that our country's citizenry be forced to do that. Forced patriotism or nationalism is antithetical to freedom, democracy and patriotism itself. Patriotism to me is having the courage to stand up and identify where we can do better as a country BECAUSE we care about the direction we are headed. And we all may disagree with one and others viewpoints on what those ideas and concerns are. What patriotism to me is has very little to do with standing for the flag, even less about the anthem. We sing the anthem, and stand and salute the flag because we are moved to. Forcing anyone to do those things is among the least American actions I can imagine.
This. Forced nationalism is Nazi Germany. "Ve have vays of making you pledge your allegiance to Der Fuhrer."
If America is truly the greatest nation on earth, it shows its greatness in the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Our right to due process, habeas corbus, to NOT pledge allegiance...to NOT stand if we so choose. And that's a beautiful thing.
It's shocking to me how many in recent years have voted and would vote to end those freedoms, to unwittingly lessen the greatness of America under the insidious guise of "making america great again."
what i found shocking and very disappointing was many of the same whiny bitches stood by silently while people who wanted to hear a presidential candidate speak had to run a gauntlet of protesters who used intimidation through verbal and physical attacks to enter the building. Often times while police officers stood by and watched it happen. This is Nazi Germany in action. I never thought i would see it in my lifetime. People bloodied while attempting to hear a candidate speak. Nothing excuses this.
Many of the same people then stand silently while their party of choice’s candidate actively worked to steal the party’s nomination through deception and lies. And finished with cheating in the presidential debates by getting the list of questions prior to the debate. But sure, lets complain about someone wanting to make America great again.
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
now we know where the Nazi party resides
I think it's ok for us to talk about things that we think are unamerican. I'd caution against leveling charges against people here as being un-American.
That's not a very fair or likely to end with a very positive result. That's why we have the system that we have here now. Labeling others as that is really a bad idea. A REALLY bad idea. Let' not do that. Near as I can tell everyone here cares deeply about our country. Let's keep that in mind.
Quote: @Poiple said:
Its interesting how this topic got the nut birds to stand up and be counted. lol
I think we are on the same side o this one to some extent, but let's not be getting uncivil about it.
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ Poiple said:
I dont see where the publicly financed affects the 1st ammendment or the employers rights.
Does Burger Kings customers use only private roads to get to their restaurants? Do they cook those burgers using public utilities or are they generating private power? slippery slope. Lets stick with legal definitions.
Aside from a 1943 USSC in which the court ruled:
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
Now this ruling was in regards to the education system forcing children to say the pledge so it is a little different. But I will go on to say this. I do not have to like that someone does or doesn't stand to sing the national anthem. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone to not care for someone's protest, or decision to not stand for the anthem. That's all fine and dandy. But what should be much MORE infuriating is the concept that our country's citizenry be forced to do that. Forced patriotism or nationalism is antithetical to freedom, democracy and patriotism itself. Patriotism to me is having the courage to stand up and identify where we can do better as a country BECAUSE we care about the direction we are headed. And we all may disagree with one and others viewpoints on what those ideas and concerns are. What patriotism to me is has very little to do with standing for the flag, even less about the anthem. We sing the anthem, and stand and salute the flag because we are moved to. Forcing anyone to do those things is among the least American actions I can imagine.
This. Forced nationalism is Nazi Germany. "Ve have vays of making you pledge your allegiance to Der Fuhrer."
If America is truly the greatest nation on earth, it shows its greatness in the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Our right to due process, habeas corbus, to NOT pledge allegiance...to NOT stand if we so choose. And that's a beautiful thing.
It's shocking to me how many in recent years have voted and would vote to end those freedoms, to unwittingly lessen the greatness of America under the insidious guise of "making america great again."
what i found shocking and very disappointing was many of the same whiny bitches stood by silently while people who wanted to hear a presidential candidate speak had to run a gauntlet of protesters who used intimidation through verbal and physical attacks to enter the building. Often times while police officers stood by and watched it happen. This is Nazi Germany in action. I never thought i would see it in my lifetime. People bloodied while attempting to hear a candidate speak. Nothing excuses this.
Many of the same people then stand silently while their party of choice’s candidate actively worked to steal the party’s nomination through deception and lies. And finished with cheating in the presidential debates by getting the list of questions prior to the debate. But sure, lets complain about someone wanting to make America great again.
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
now we know where the Nazi party resides
I'm beginning to hear this more and more...the "I know you are but what am I" defense. What's interesting is that it poses an equivalency between two opposite kinds of intolerance. Trump attempted to do this in his response to Charlottesville (good people on both sides). But what he got wrong is that, while there IS a tolerance equivalency, there is no moral equivalency. One side is full of hate because of racism, and the other side is opposed to that hate. Again, you may want to reconsider which side you want to be on.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ Poiple said:
I dont see where the publicly financed affects the 1st ammendment or the employers rights.
Does Burger Kings customers use only private roads to get to their restaurants? Do they cook those burgers using public utilities or are they generating private power? slippery slope. Lets stick with legal definitions.
Aside from a 1943 USSC in which the court ruled:
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
Now this ruling was in regards to the education system forcing children to say the pledge so it is a little different. But I will go on to say this. I do not have to like that someone does or doesn't stand to sing the national anthem. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone to not care for someone's protest, or decision to not stand for the anthem. That's all fine and dandy. But what should be much MORE infuriating is the concept that our country's citizenry be forced to do that. Forced patriotism or nationalism is antithetical to freedom, democracy and patriotism itself. Patriotism to me is having the courage to stand up and identify where we can do better as a country BECAUSE we care about the direction we are headed. And we all may disagree with one and others viewpoints on what those ideas and concerns are. What patriotism to me is has very little to do with standing for the flag, even less about the anthem. We sing the anthem, and stand and salute the flag because we are moved to. Forcing anyone to do those things is among the least American actions I can imagine.
This. Forced nationalism is Nazi Germany. "Ve have vays of making you pledge your allegiance to Der Fuhrer."
If America is truly the greatest nation on earth, it shows its greatness in the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Our right to due process, habeas corbus, to NOT pledge allegiance...to NOT stand if we so choose. And that's a beautiful thing.
It's shocking to me how many in recent years have voted and would vote to end those freedoms, to unwittingly lessen the greatness of America under the insidious guise of "making america great again."
what i found shocking and very disappointing was many of the same whiny bitches stood by silently while people who wanted to hear a presidential candidate speak had to run a gauntlet of protesters who used intimidation through verbal and physical attacks to enter the building. Often times while police officers stood by and watched it happen. This is Nazi Germany in action. I never thought i would see it in my lifetime. People bloodied while attempting to hear a candidate speak. Nothing excuses this.
Many of the same people then stand silently while their party of choice’s candidate actively worked to steal the party’s nomination through deception and lies. And finished with cheating in the presidential debates by getting the list of questions prior to the debate. But sure, lets complain about someone wanting to make America great again.
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
now we know where the Nazi party resides
I'm beginning to hear this more and more...the "I know you are but what am I" defense. What's interesting is that it poses an equivalency between two opposite kinds of intolerance. Trump attempted to do this in his response to Charlottesville (good people on both sides). But what he got wrong is that, while there IS a tolerance equivalency, there is no moral equivalency. One side is full of hate because of racism, and the other side is opposed to that hate. Again, you may want to reconsider which side you want to be on.
I hope you don’t mean Republicans or conservatives are full of hate because of racism. And pretend the left or liberals arent.
Barack Hussein Obama is a bigger racist than Donald J. Trump.
Quote: @A1Janitor said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Poiple said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Mike Olson said:
@ Poiple said:
I dont see where the publicly financed affects the 1st ammendment or the employers rights.
Does Burger Kings customers use only private roads to get to their restaurants? Do they cook those burgers using public utilities or are they generating private power? slippery slope. Lets stick with legal definitions.
Aside from a 1943 USSC in which the court ruled:
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
Now this ruling was in regards to the education system forcing children to say the pledge so it is a little different. But I will go on to say this. I do not have to like that someone does or doesn't stand to sing the national anthem. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone to not care for someone's protest, or decision to not stand for the anthem. That's all fine and dandy. But what should be much MORE infuriating is the concept that our country's citizenry be forced to do that. Forced patriotism or nationalism is antithetical to freedom, democracy and patriotism itself. Patriotism to me is having the courage to stand up and identify where we can do better as a country BECAUSE we care about the direction we are headed. And we all may disagree with one and others viewpoints on what those ideas and concerns are. What patriotism to me is has very little to do with standing for the flag, even less about the anthem. We sing the anthem, and stand and salute the flag because we are moved to. Forcing anyone to do those things is among the least American actions I can imagine.
This. Forced nationalism is Nazi Germany. "Ve have vays of making you pledge your allegiance to Der Fuhrer."
If America is truly the greatest nation on earth, it shows its greatness in the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Our right to due process, habeas corbus, to NOT pledge allegiance...to NOT stand if we so choose. And that's a beautiful thing.
It's shocking to me how many in recent years have voted and would vote to end those freedoms, to unwittingly lessen the greatness of America under the insidious guise of "making america great again."
what i found shocking and very disappointing was many of the same whiny bitches stood by silently while people who wanted to hear a presidential candidate speak had to run a gauntlet of protesters who used intimidation through verbal and physical attacks to enter the building. Often times while police officers stood by and watched it happen. This is Nazi Germany in action. I never thought i would see it in my lifetime. People bloodied while attempting to hear a candidate speak. Nothing excuses this.
Many of the same people then stand silently while their party of choice’s candidate actively worked to steal the party’s nomination through deception and lies. And finished with cheating in the presidential debates by getting the list of questions prior to the debate. But sure, lets complain about someone wanting to make America great again.
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
now we know where the Nazi party resides
I'm beginning to hear this more and more...the "I know you are but what am I" defense. What's interesting is that it poses an equivalency between two opposite kinds of intolerance. Trump attempted to do this in his response to Charlottesville (good people on both sides). But what he got wrong is that, while there IS a tolerance equivalency, there is no moral equivalency. One side is full of hate because of racism, and the other side is opposed to that hate. Again, you may want to reconsider which side you want to be on.
I hope you don’t mean Republicans or conservatives are full of hate because of racism. And pretend the left or liberals arent.
Barack Hussein Obama is a bigger racist than Donald J. Trump.
You don't believe that and you know it. But no I'm not talking about republicans or conservatives. I'm talking about the White Nationalists who've found a friend in Donald Trump.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ dadevike said:
@ suncoastvike said:
I think it is too hard to compare sporting events to private industry. While it's true I believe freedom of speach is protection from the government. I'm not sure it applies to the work place. I could be wrong however that's not my point here. Yes NFL teams are privately owned franchises. They play in private/ publicly funded stadiums. Comparing sports teams to private industry is not apples to apples. 65,000 people do not show up at 3M to watch them make Sticky Notes.
All this is true, but I think you are making the wrong comparison. For First Amendment protection purposes, the question is not whether a sports team is equivalent to a private industry (although I would argue that it is), the question is whether the sports team is equivalent to the government. And I would argue that it is not.
Any employer can fire you, whether that is a sports team or a burger joint or a government job. And not having a job in a capitalist country like ours can be a very big deal. I am not minimizing that at all. But no private employer can take your freedom or your life. Only the government can (legally) do that. Only one has the force of the state behind it: the government.
Does Buger King ask cities/states to put up $500m to fund their new restaurant? That was my main point. They are kind of public/state government buildings when they take that money. The men working inside are employees. They people paying for the tickets should be able to get a refund then if they make rules or ban players that could effect you enjoyment. That you paid for. I know other big businesses are subsidised by tax funds. These events are public gatherings in publicly funded venues. If they want it to be totally private and run it that way stop asking states to pony up $$$.
So any company who has subsidized buildings? Well, there goes nearly every company in America, since most get tax breaks to move to certain municipalities.
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