First round draft pick, 26 games played, 23 receptions, 0 TDs....

[Guest]

I did see Treadwell make a nice play shaking off a couple tacklers and getting a first down.  Was I the only one?  I do believe all our WRs had at least one drop last game.

There are lots of very good/great WRs in the league that take time to develop.  Lets hope Treadwell is one of those.

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@FSUVike said:

or-El" said:

@BrickVike said:
main reason LT is on the field ahead of others is he can block. I agree with the complaints about his abscense in the passing game but as long as Zimmer is in charge running the ball will be priority. For Zim,  more important for the #3 WR to block then catch passes. 

I'm sure this is true, but then he is playing like an undersized TE. Why not just put Morgan or Conklin on the field instead of Treadwell?

The Vikings drafted Treadwell when Thielen was coming off a 12-catch season, his best to date. They didn't realize Thielen was going to give them an outstanding glue-handed catch-in-traffic (and more) WR. Even if Treadwell suddenly reaches his top potential, he's too similar to Thielen. He doesn't provide a good complement at the #3 position.

Vikings need a speedy WR in that role, and thought they would get it from Kendall Wright. He flopped totally (as most former Bears do..)

Wait. Adam is 4.3, Stefon is 4.4, but they need a deep threat burner to be more effective?

Do you really see either of them REGULARLY running deep outs and fly routes? These are guys who CAN get deep, sometimes, but if they do it repeatedly in a game, neither has the impressive deep speed that scares a defense. Both of them do their best work in the short and intermediate range, but the defense crowds them if no one tries to stretch the field. Treadwell doesn't stretch the field, he compresses it. Put him on the field and a defense can rest assured Diggs and Thielen are the ONLY guys who might burn them, and just bunch up tighter.

Didn't anyone else notice Cousins overthrew both Diggs and Thielen on deep passes? OK, that's probably mostly about timing, and it will get better. But it also could indicate he is used to someone like DeSean Jackson who has an extra gear to use at the end of his route.

And those speeds you cited...when did Thielen run a 4.3? At the regional combine in 2013, his best time was 4.45. That's very good, Adam is definitely fast enough to make big gains, and he wins with great quickness and superb routes. Diggs ran 4.46 at his combine. Neither is going to be dinged for being too slow, but the difference between 4.45 and 4.30 is about 3 extra steps of separation on a deep route, which is huge. Great speed is not everything in a WR - I know, Troy Williamson - but it's very helpful for a team to have at least one superfast threat. We don't have one, and if we did, it would make Diggs and Thielen even better.

I enjoyed the win, I'm not crying that the sky is falling, but I keep hearing commentators and others remarking on the Vikings offense having "many weapons"...but I see 2 great WRs (which is damn nice), but little else. We have a TE who can best be described as "above average". If Cook turns into a game-breaking threat, we're a lot more diversified, but that's still a bit more hope than certainty and wasn't apparent last Sunday.

Oh, as an aside...I love Adam Thielen, bought his jersey last year...but the Paul Bunyan exaggeration of his physical attributes has amused me for a couple years. At his combine, when he was 23 (not a still-growing 20-year-old), he measured 6'1&1/8" and weighed 192. But he has grown to 6'2" or 6'3" in some lists, and I have heard people say he is 6'3" & 210! Now I hear he ran a 4.3. At this rate, he'll be Calvin Johnson by 2020. This guy is an awesome receiver - but we don't need to claim that he's a physical freak.

@RS Express said:
Treadwell is on the roster for 2 reasons:

1. Politics. Even in year 3, cutting a first rounder is a big runny omelet in the face of the GM who made the pick.

2. Dead money.  Cutting Deadwell would nail the Vikings with a $5,870,000 cap hit, throwing the team over the cap.

Why Zimmer continues to play him so much defies reasoning. 

#1 is definitely true, but I think dead money doesn't work that way, where it would push them over the cap. He has money guaranteed and they have to pay and count it, which is a total of $5.8M between 2018 and 2019 - but I don't think cutting him today would incur next year's guaranteed salary into this season. BUT I think the dead money adds to #1: having millions of dollars paid to a guy who was cut is even more embarrassing than paying a guy who catches 20 short passes in a season.

As to why he gets on the field, I think it's just a matter of not having anyone better. Neither Coley or Zylstra have caught a pass in an NFL game.

[Guest]

@HappyViking said:
I did see Treadwell make a nice play shaking off a couple tacklers and getting a first down.  Was I the only one?  I do believe all our WRs had at least one drop last game.

There are lots of very good/great WRs in the league that take time to develop.  Lets hope Treadwell is one of those.

nope,  but there is no point in trying to defend his production or contributions to some who only want to A.  have something to bitch about or B.  Want so badly to be right on him being a bust.

like this egregious drop I keep hearing about,  the only drop I recall shouldnt have been thrown to begin with,  now maybe it was a bad route,  but it was 3rd down and he was short of the line to gain with 3 defenders ready to finish him if he had caught the ball.  if there was another I dont recall seeing it,  but I did see him on many occasions blocking the shit out of run plays and that doesnt get appreciated enough which is nuts for a fan base that was so enamored with AD and now Cook.  they dont get those big runs without WRs like Treadwell taking the DBs out of the picture.  

[Guest]

I think we wasted this pick. Nobody really to blame I guess. At least I don't think we should. Many, myself included was saying pre-draft that year that WR was a need. By years end the need seemed less. Now he couldn't be anymore then #3 if he tried. 
All that said. He's a bust. Being a good blocker and ST gunner is not what you envisioned when you spent a 1st.

[Guest]

Remembered Adam's 40 time wrong, Jor El.

But Antonio Brown ran slower than Diggs at the combine. By your logic I guess he's not a deep threat either.

And who's the Pats deep threat? Gronk?

The NFL is changing. 1 Possession WR, 1 Deep Threat WR, 1 Shifty Slot WR. That's always been conventional wisdom regarding building that Unit.

Now it's all about having as many playmakers as you can get. Not getting boxed into outdated concepts of what a Wide Receiver Corps should look like.

That is where Rick messed up, by looking for a specific type of Receiver instead of the best playmaker.

It wouldn't have mattered, though. If he had gone Doctson, Coleman or Fuller would the results be any different? There are only so many targets in a game. Adam, Stefon, Dalvin/Murray, the TEs.

The real shame here is how poorly the WR needy teams did when evaluating Michael Thomas. To be fair, he didn't do much in college and looked like a classic Tarzan at the Combine who would be Jane during the games.

But ask yourself this: if Minnesota had had the foresight to draft Thomas would Diggs and Thielen have developed this quickly? Or would Thomas have been the one not getting enough targets to shine?

Another way to look at this is to think about how many teams had 3 Dominant Receiving options for more than a couple of seasons in a row.

You might have three good to great targets for a year or two, but somebody's always going to want to leave to show they can be the #1 option on another team.

2 to 3 catches a game with a few where your 3rd WR gets more looks when a DC decides to double both Adam and Stefon. That's all you're going to get.

You can run fly routes until the cows come home. The DC is still going to single cover you because he knows you're only getting a few looks the whole game. Having a 'Deep Threat' is only going to take the top off of a Defense if you use it consistently. Which means less targets for your best two Receivers.

As for your Jackson comment, there might be some slight residual muscle memory from throwing him bombs. But that hasnt happened since 2016.  I believe he just needs more time to gel with Stefon and Adam. Those long shot misses against the 9ers will turn into chunk plays as they get more familiar with each other.

Bottom line, though, is that life is pretty sweet when we're all having a spirited debate over the merits of the 3rd String Receiver. Pretty sure the Steelers, Saints, Packers, Falcons, Cowboys and Lions fans have much bigger concerns at the moment.

[Guest]

FSU, agreed that overworrying Treadwell's fate is a lot better than analyzing a loss. 

Your comment about Spielman looking for a particular type of WR is true, but given the poor quality of the WRs picked in 2016, he probably should have avoided forcing the pick to that position. But it was a pretty bad draft overall. If we had 20/20 hindsight, we should have picked Jordan Howard and Tyreek Hill...

[Guest]

@Jor-El said:
FSU, agreed that overworrying Treadwell's fate is a lot better than analyzing a loss. 

Your comment about Spielman looking for a particular type of WR is true, but given the poor quality of the WRs picked in 2016, he probably should have avoided forcing the pick to that position. But it was a pretty bad draft overall. If we had 20/20 hindsight, we should have picked Jordan Howard and Tyreek Hill...

No kidding! Once you get past the first 5 picks nobody taken in the 1st Round has done much so far.