Quote: @Vikeking2 said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Ilovebigtd's said:
why does teddy need to compete? he didnt lose his job to bad play
Well, he certainly didn't "win" it with "great" play, either. It was handed to him... and he showed signs that- MAYBE- he might develop into a great QB. But lots of QBs have "potential"...
actually, pumpf he did earn being a starter for an NFL team with great play. he was an awesome college qb, who lead his teams to wins, and was a heisman candidate. that led him to being a first round pick.
he wasnt some street free agent. his play dictatd him being a first round pick. first round picks are typcially starters until they prove they are not. then 11-5 and almost a playoff win in first year. maybe not many tds but also not many turnovers and played good against tons of pressure. didnt do anything on the field to not be considered starting quality.
now major injury happens and we will see how he comes back. i said it all along that I thjnk Teddy is Zims guy, if he is able to play and we arent in the middle of a magical run with a backup, teddy is this teams qb. in reality if the injury never happened, every single team in NFL wouldve taken Teddy over Sam, Case, and Kirk Cousins.
but the injury did happen and now we have another exciting off season of rumors and specultion. YAY!
If you want to make the case that Teddy "earned" the starting job by being great in college... OK. But the same could be said of ALOT of college QBs, who were drafted high. And most of them did NOT become great NFL QBs. As for the rest of your "defense" of Teddy- you just described him as a "game manager". That label is NOT applied to QBs who are considered "great". That may or may not be fair (Alex Smith was labeled a "game manager"... and he has put up some good stats and just earned himself a boat-load of money)... but that is the general consensus.
If you don't think that Teddy was "handed" the job, who did he "beat out" for the job?
he beat out all other potential draft picks at No. 32 of that draft based on our scouting and coaching staff evaluation.
i didnt describe teddy as any specific type of qb except our starter at the end of a divison champ playoff year. if you are projecting how feel about him onto me that is fine, but i didnt define teddy or what he can be.
if you want me to define him id define him as:
”starting QB on divison champ team in first year as full time starter, who at 22-23 years old was widely regarded by team mates and coaches as a leader. a qb embraced by a fan base in a way ive never seen a “game manager”. he is also a qb with moxy and confidence that you cannot coach, able to handle pressure behind what was one of the worst OL in the league” — the rest of the story and how he may or may not be defined is yet to written
id also describe him as our 2018-beyond qb.
also, “alot” of first round qbs that did not become great qbs isnt really a valid argument against teddy.
did those qbs win divison the last year they started?
did they have bad injuries that made them miss seasons?
or did they play like shit and the teams they played on decide to move on? were they leaders off the field or just great athletes that didnt develop or take nfl seriously enough?
Quote: @Ilovebigtd's said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Ilovebigtd's said:
why does teddy need to compete? he didnt lose his job to bad play
Well, he certainly didn't "win" it with "great" play, either. It was handed to him... and he showed signs that- MAYBE- he might develop into a great QB. But lots of QBs have "potential"...
he led us to 11-5 playoff team. with the worst o line in the nfl and a offesne tailored only around ap. and mike wallace as his number 1 receiever....id say he did a damn good job.
outplayed russell wilson in the playoff loss also
This argument about the 2015 offense is really old.
There is a reason the team decided to run the offense through AP.
And it was NOT that they wanted to hold Teddy back.
They were very smart to not ask him to try and do too much.
Their plan worked too because they got to the playoffs behind AP, a solid defense, and Teddy not messing things up.
While you did not mention Norv Turner the comment implies that his offense was not tailored for Teddy.
Says who?
Norv is the one that pounded the table for Teddy in the draft.
He knew how he wanted to develop his young QB and it worked.
Most of the ardent Teddy fans believed he was ready to bust out in 2016 (I did too).
And who got him there? Norv Turner.
The Vikings ran the offense the way they wanted and developed Teddy the way they wanted and it worked in 2015 and with Teddy.
Quote: @Ilovebigtd's said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ Ilovebigtd's said:
@ pumpf said:
@ Ilovebigtd's said:
why does teddy need to compete? he didnt lose his job to bad play
Well, he certainly didn't "win" it with "great" play, either. It was handed to him... and he showed signs that- MAYBE- he might develop into a great QB. But lots of QBs have "potential"...
he led us to 11-5 playoff team. with the worst o line in the nfl and a offesne tailored only around ap. and mike wallace as his number 1 receiever....id say he did a damn good job.
outplayed russell wilson in the playoff loss also
This argument about the 2015 offense is really old.
There is a reason the team decided to run the offense through AP.
And it was NOT that they wanted to hold Teddy back.
They were very smart to not ask him to try and do too much.
Their plan worked too because they got to the playoffs behind AP, a solid defense, and Teddy not messing things up.
While you did not mention Norv Turner the comment implies that his offense was not tailored for Teddy.
Says who?
Norv is the one that pounded the table for Teddy in the draft.
He knew how he wanted to develop his young QB and it worked.
Most of the ardent Teddy fans believed he was ready to bust out in 2016 (I did too).
And who got him there? Norv Turner.
The Vikings ran the offense the way they wanted and developed Teddy the way they wanted and it worked in 2015 and with Teddy.
he outplayed russell wilson in our playoff game and led us to a potential (easy) game winning field goal.
his top receiver was mike wallace
our offense line was arguably the worst pass blocking line in the nfl.
his last 5 games as a rookie he was PFF’s top 5 qb (against top 10 defense in our last 5 games)
best record as a qb in their first two years...
again year 3 they were gonna hand him the keys to the offense..
anyome here will agree with me that the offense was to cater to a running back that didnt like running out of the shotgun.
teddy was also pressured on 45% of his drop backs....and he EXCELLED UNDER PRESSURE.
Obviously you like Teddy a lot and are very loyal in that position which I respect.
Wallace went to the Ravens the very next year and did pretty good.
He went from catching 39 passes for 473 yards and 2 TDs to catching 72 passes for 1017 yards and 4 TDs.
Some of it was no time for Teddy and some of it was them not connecting.
Teddy's play at the end of the year proves the Vikings developed him the right way.
I do not understand how it needs to be argued about how the offense was designed and who it "catered" to.
It does not take a rocket scientist to be able to figure out if they were paying AP 12 mil plus that he would be getting the ball and the results proved it was a good decision.
I disagree with the argument that Teddy would have done better had AP not been there in 2015.
I think that argument will never be proven so it really is useless to present.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
This argument about the 2015 offense is really old.
There is a reason the team decided to run the offense through AP.
And it was NOT that they wanted to hold Teddy back.
They were very smart to not ask him to try and do too much.
Their plan worked too because they got to the playoffs behind AP, a solid defense, and Teddy not messing things up.
While you did not mention Norv Turner the comment implies that his offense was not tailored for Teddy.
Says who?
Norv is the one that pounded the table for Teddy in the draft.
He knew how he wanted to develop his young QB and it worked.
Most of the ardent Teddy fans believed he was ready to bust out in 2016 (I did too).
And who got him there? Norv Turner.
The Vikings ran the offense the way they wanted and developed Teddy the way they wanted and it worked in 2015 and with Teddy.
I don't think people are arguing that the team had some conspiracy to hold teddy back or to design an offense that wasn't best for him, as much as Teddy was one of the first pieces in our rebuilt offense and they hadn't got all the pieces around him yet.
In 2014, There was no AD. He was out for the season. 2015 was the first year they saw him in action. At this point they hadn't realized AD's one dimensionalness. Jennings was a west coast receiver so they brought in Wallace who they thought was a better fit for Norv's scheme, despite the fact he didn't want to be in MN and wasn't physical like the downfield WRs he was used to. They lost two starting OLinemen before the season started. The rebuilt OLine couldn't pass block for shit, but could run block pretty well. Sometime early 2015, it became apparent that they weren't able to run Norv's scheme as he desired, they didn't have the time to let deep plays develop, nor did they have a primary receiver who could run all the shorter routes and they rebuilt the offense on the fly. Teddy was getting heavily pressured on all deep routes. They rebuilt it around the parts of the offense that worked: AD and the run blocking OLine. They told Teddy to not fuck it up and just convert 3rd downs and keep the defense honest.
This was not the offense that they wanted, but it was one that they were shoehorned into by lack of offensive talent. You can clearly see the difference from 2014 to 2015. In 2014 we were running closer to Norv's offense with a better OLine, Jennings, and no AD.
Quote: @pumpf said:
I will only root for the QB that *I* think is the best. I will hope and pray that- if any other QB starts for us- he'll fail miserably. Because the one thing I love more than the Vikings winning... is being RIGHT!
:p
PS: I couldn't find any "sarcasm" buttons... so the one with the tongue sticking out will have to do.
![[Image: elcacxjqyhcn.gif]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/8z/elcacxjqyhcn.gif)
Here you go Pumpf...
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