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08-10-2018, 05:01 PM

Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:
All of the smart guys who aggressively defended the draft strategy are already polishing up their excuses.
not really excuses per say... just trying to explain to the chicken littles that all is not lost and even if they had grabbed one of the remaining OLmen in the draft that said player wouldnt necessarily be a better solution to the current situation.

Can you imagine the consternation if Hernandez or someone else had been picked and wasn't beating out Remmers, Compton, Izzy or Collins for 1st Team reps?

People would be calling for D-Flips head, complaining that Zimmer never trusts Rookies, blaming Rick for a wasted pick and pounding the table for the return of Tice to set things straight.

Elflein was just as good if not better in college than the guys that went before Minnesota's pick. And to my practiced eye better than the guys they passed on.

He worked out great. But that's no guarantee that any of guys from this Draft will. And even if they do there's still no guarantee they would beat out guys with NFL Starting experience. Or guys like Izzy or Collins that saw action last year.

And then there's roster construction. Do I want to pay an OG his 5th year option or resign a skill position player? More to these decisions than meets the eye.

08-10-2018, 05:08 PM

the harsh reality is even highly drafted OL coming out of college are still raw and are not necessarily ready for work when they get here so just because a couple of those guys that we passed on are starting for some really challenged teams.. doesnt mean shit for Minnesota even though we have our own OL issues.

08-10-2018, 05:09 PM

Quote: @"minny65" said:

Most fans of a team only look at their team in a vacuum. For example, their are a few posters who basically want/wanted us to draft OL in the first round no matter what players were available because everyone knows that every other teams OL's are loaded with first or second round Offensive Lines!
For example: The two Super Bowl teams have OL's as follows:
Eagles Super Bowl lineup:
LT - Vaitai - a 5th round pick by the Eagles who stepped in for the injured J Peters who was an UDFA pickup by the Bills
LG - Wisniewski - a 2nd round pick by the Raiders to play Center whom the Eales signed as a FA from Jax and moved to Guard
C - Kelce - a 6th round pick by the Eagles
RG - B. Brooks - a 3rd round pick by Houston and signed as a free agent
RT - Lane Johnson - a 1st round pick by the Eagles
So in summary, The Eagles starting OL consisted of a 5th round pick, a 6th round pick and a 1st round pick - Eagles picks
The other starters were an UDFA (Peters injured) a 2nd round pick by the Raiders and a 3rd round pick by Houston.
Patriots starting Lineup:
LT - Nate Solder - 1st round pick by Patriots
LG - Thuney - 3rd round pick by Patriots
C - Andrews - UDFA
RG -Mason - 4th round by Patriots
RT - C. Flemming - 4th round pick by Patriots
In summary - Patriots have two 4th round picks, one 3rd round pick, a first round pick and an UDFA that started in the Super Bowl.
So when you let the hot air out of the Vacuum you can see the logic of just taking an OL in the first round just to take one. That darn Spelly (GM of the year) just doesn't understand drafting OL in early rounds guarantee's success around the league! When will he learn from us armchair experts???

You can develop late round talent. Nobody would argue otherwise. It just takes longer. These guy you mentioned when did they get good? Since most your list consists of guys with 4 to 7 years pro experience. With some depth behind them with even more. We have what we have so they will need to be coached up. However as we all know we had a sad and unexpected change in that as well.
Lets see what happens before we crap ourselves. I just won't blame people if this is the weak link that dooms us and they call us on it.
As I said this is what we have for now. Don't mean we can't wish we drafted higher or more ready now types then we have.

08-10-2018, 05:15 PM

A lot of you guys are taking this to the extreme. All I'm saying is that our offensive line has been the weak spot on the team since Zimmer got here 4 years ago, and it would be nice if they started placing a little more emphasis on what I feel is one of the most important units on the team.

If they can build a good to great offensive line by continually finding diamonds in the rough late in the draft, that's great! But so far history has shown us that they haven't had the best of luck in trying that approach and maybe it's time to try something new.

For example, from 2014 -2017 under Zimmer, the team drafted exactly one o-lineman higher than the 4th round (Pat Elflein in the 3rd in 2017), and he has turned out to be their best o-line pick BY FAR during that time.

Hopefully they've started learning because this year they drafted another o-lineman higher than usual (Brian O'Neill in the 2nd). Obviously the jury is still out on him, but I'm hopeful that maybe the team is starting to finally place a little more importance on the o-line.

08-10-2018, 05:56 PM

Vaitai was drafted in 2016, Suncoast. Which is kind of my point. The guys Minnesota are turning to have been around long enough to develop. Compton has been in the League since 2012. Edison since 2015 (same year Easton came out).

Izzy and Collins are a little greener but got snaps last year as rooks. Neither looked overmatched, though admittedly in small sample sizes.

SF, I look at the SB Teams' rosters as sort of the standard way to build your Line. Dallas loaded up on 1st and it got them nowhere. Oakland went all FA and arrived at the same destination as the Boys.

Rick went and signed a former 1st Rounder to play LT. He also signed a League Average RT that he felt would be better at RG to hold down the fort while they developed a future solution at that spot.

He then spent a 3rd on a Center and a 2nd on a Tackle in consecutive Drafts.

Was his approach prior to the last two years bad? Unquestionably. But he's certainly changed it up since then. It hasn't quite mirrored the SB teams, but it's getting there.

08-10-2018, 06:16 PM

Quote: @"FSUVike" said:
Vaitai was drafted in 2016, Suncoast. Which is kind of my point. The guys Minnesota are turning to have been around long enough to develop. Compton has been in the League since 2012. Edison since 2015 (same year Easton came out).

Izzy and Collins are a little greener but got snaps last year as rooks. Neither looked overmatched, though admittedly in small sample sizes.

SF, I look at the SB Teams' rosters as sort of the standard way to build your Line. Dallas loaded up on 1st and it got them nowhere. Oakland went all FA and arrived at the same destination as the Boys.

Rick went and signed a former 1st Rounder to play LT. He also signed a League Average RT that he felt would be better at RG to hold down the fort while they developed a future solution at that spot.

He then spent a 3rd on a Center and a 2nd on a Tackle in consecutive Drafts.

Was his approach prior to the last two years bad? Unquestionably. But he's certainly changed it up since then. It hasn't quite mirrored the SB teams, but it's getting there.

exactly, the "ignores the OL" argument is past its sell date.

08-10-2018, 07:59 PM

After watching Will Hernandez being manhandled last night, I'll withhold judgement for now...

08-10-2018, 08:24 PM

Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
After watching Will Hernandez being manhandled last night, I'll withhold judgement for now...

I watched and thought the same thing. Surprisingly he seemed over-powered on many snaps but was able to get out on screens which is the exact opposite of what we heard about him coming out which was a bruiser in the running game with a nasty streak but not overly nimble. He looked top heavy and was easily beaten by the Cleveland starter whom I don't know if he is even good.

Less then 1Q of play so FWIW.

Mayfield looked really good - against 2nd stringers but still really good.