Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"minny65" said:
He married Gisselle in 2009 after negotiating 4 contracts and appearing in 4 SB's and going 3-1 for the team that drafted him.
Brady was on his rookie deal - 2001, year 2 - when he helped win the SB for the team that drafted him. Then they redid his rookie deal in 2002 to another pretty reasonable deal and he won his 2nd and third SB appearances in 2003 and 2004 for the team that drafted him.
Tom Brady 2002
Deal: 5 years, $30.52M
Signing Bonus: $10M
"In the last week of August of 2002, Brady got a new deal that would take him through 2006. As part of that deal, Brady would receive $250K for every AFC Championship win and $250K for every Super Bowl win. He’d realize $1M from those incentives thanks to the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He kept his initial 2002 salary of $375K, but the salaries jumped to $3.1M, $5.5M, $5.5M and $6M from 2003 through 2006. The Patriots tinkered with the deal in 2003 and 2004 to grab more cap space and dumped money forward so his cap charges in ‘05 and ’06 were slated to be $10M and $14M.
Lucrative though that may have seemed for a player that had started just 14 regular-season games, Drew Bledsoe’s deal with the Patriots signed just 18 months prior was for 10 years and $103M. So Brady was a bargain. "
Also, as I stated in my above response:
Then there is the unique Stafford (non SB proven at the time) situation where the Rams assumed the last two years of his Detroit contract for a CAP hit last year of 20 million and this year 13.5. Total CAP hit of 33.5 million for two years with a SB trophy in year 1. Kirk's CAP hit was about 31 million last year and is 31 million this year according to Spotrac. That is an extra 29 million (2 years) in CAP Space for the Rams to surround the QB with proven commodities and extend players like Ramsey, Donald etc.
The Broncos move to get a proven SB QB in Russel Wilson most resembles what the Rams were able to do with Stafford (IMO) but not with as much CAP savings. Wilson's Cap hit this year will be 24 million and then 27 million. Not crippling at all and you get a proven SB winning QB.
The Cousins situation (non SB proven) has also been unique because he is not a Brady/Peyton, of course, nor is he a Stafford situation contract (CAP saver) wise either. We have paid top dollar for mediocre results. We are paying Kirk the 3rd highest CAP hit this year at 31 million (Tannehill and Mahomes).
When you compare KC to the 3 other QB's above - the Vikings signed a non-proven SB QB for top dollar and keep kicking that can.
The Rams were able to get Stafford on the cheap and surround him with top talent with all the savings something the Vikings have been unable to do with KC.
Wilson is a pretty darn good bargain because he is a proven SB clutch QB and his CAP hits are reasonable over 2 years to build for a proven clutch QB - again KC is paid more and has won one playoff game.
Brady - see above - won first SB on rookie contract and then went 2-1 in SB's for his drafted team before he married Gisselle.
I go back to wanting to take more swings - in the first round of the draft then we have in the recent past. Three times in 24 years is not enough swings for the fence - IMO. For every, bust first round QB, you can find 2 or 3 bust veterans who never get you close but give you "we can win with him tease" if we surround him. This mentality/approach of thinking you have a proven veteran who is good enough even though he has not been proven to be a winner over 9 years (pretty good sample size) also prohibits the team to not look as hard at the Top first round QB's.
Of course, we enter this season with another year of KC and the majority of us knowing this is the year most will get their answer on KC (I already have mine  .
But just like many hung on way to long supporting Zimmer until not....I am hoping that if KC led team produces another 8 or 9 win season but KC puts up good stats that we don't continue to rinse and repeat this same old "good enough" conversation/thought process.
Wow, you're leaving a lot out there, Minny. You can't compare contracts without also comparing their terms, total value, guaranteed money, etc.
In terms of avg. per year, Cousins ranks 9th. In terms of total contract value, his contract ranks 18th. Cap hit is a nearly meaningless factor because its constantly changing (and changeable) based on where you are in the term.
Vikings could cut Cousins' cap hit in half tomorrow simply by extending him. But I think we would all agree that's not in our best interest right now.
wasnt KC the highest paid QB over like the last 4 or 5 seasons? seems to me that is hard to take out of context when you are talking about a guy that only changes the terms of his deal ( accepts and extension) if it ultimately means that he gets more guaranteed money than what he was due to make previously. sure you can lower his cap hit this year, but you will just be kicking that can down the road, its not like you will be paying him less money over the terms of the deal.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker...er-report/
Did the NFL know this was coming when they made the schedule? Browns play the Panthers week one. Another interesting match up week one will be Seattle vs. Denver. Drew Lock vs. Russell Wilson.
Rehash of Browns brass trying to save face on a horrible management job of Mayfield and the QB position. They have to go back to the college days to reference Mayfield's demeanor. Oh and did anyone realize that QB's swagger is viewed differently when they are winning vs losing Loved the swagger/demeanor etc the year before when they went 11-5 and beat their ultimate rival Steelers to finish the season and then in the WC game! First playoff win for Cleveland in 26 years!!! Then they reference some difficulty with coaching.....do you mean the coaching staff that changed every year?
Article: This is not the first time something like this has been reported. ESPN's Chris Mortensen said in March the Browns wanted an "adult" at the position. Mayfield's disposition and swagger were a reason he left the college ranks a star. His planting of the Sooners flag in Columbus and his fiery performance against Kansas made him a desirable teammate, but that attitude comes off differently if a team is losing.
So you want an adult at the position so let's go get Watson?????? I hope Cleveland continues to be a dumpster fire!
Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"minny65" said:
He married Gisselle in 2009 after negotiating 4 contracts and appearing in 4 SB's and going 3-1 for the team that drafted him.
Brady was on his rookie deal - 2001, year 2 - when he helped win the SB for the team that drafted him. Then they redid his rookie deal in 2002 to another pretty reasonable deal and he won his 2nd and third SB appearances in 2003 and 2004 for the team that drafted him.
Tom Brady 2002
Deal: 5 years, $30.52M
Signing Bonus: $10M
"In the last week of August of 2002, Brady got a new deal that would take him through 2006. As part of that deal, Brady would receive $250K for every AFC Championship win and $250K for every Super Bowl win. He’d realize $1M from those incentives thanks to the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He kept his initial 2002 salary of $375K, but the salaries jumped to $3.1M, $5.5M, $5.5M and $6M from 2003 through 2006. The Patriots tinkered with the deal in 2003 and 2004 to grab more cap space and dumped money forward so his cap charges in ‘05 and ’06 were slated to be $10M and $14M.
Lucrative though that may have seemed for a player that had started just 14 regular-season games, Drew Bledsoe’s deal with the Patriots signed just 18 months prior was for 10 years and $103M. So Brady was a bargain. "
Also, as I stated in my above response:
Then there is the unique Stafford (non SB proven at the time) situation where the Rams assumed the last two years of his Detroit contract for a CAP hit last year of 20 million and this year 13.5. Total CAP hit of 33.5 million for two years with a SB trophy in year 1. Kirk's CAP hit was about 31 million last year and is 31 million this year according to Spotrac. That is an extra 29 million (2 years) in CAP Space for the Rams to surround the QB with proven commodities and extend players like Ramsey, Donald etc.
The Broncos move to get a proven SB QB in Russel Wilson most resembles what the Rams were able to do with Stafford (IMO) but not with as much CAP savings. Wilson's Cap hit this year will be 24 million and then 27 million. Not crippling at all and you get a proven SB winning QB.
The Cousins situation (non SB proven) has also been unique because he is not a Brady/Peyton, of course, nor is he a Stafford situation contract (CAP saver) wise either. We have paid top dollar for mediocre results. We are paying Kirk the 3rd highest CAP hit this year at 31 million (Tannehill and Mahomes).
When you compare KC to the 3 other QB's above - the Vikings signed a non-proven SB QB for top dollar and keep kicking that can.
The Rams were able to get Stafford on the cheap and surround him with top talent with all the savings something the Vikings have been unable to do with KC.
Wilson is a pretty darn good bargain because he is a proven SB clutch QB and his CAP hits are reasonable over 2 years to build for a proven clutch QB - again KC is paid more and has won one playoff game.
Brady - see above - won first SB on rookie contract and then went 2-1 in SB's for his drafted team before he married Gisselle.
I go back to wanting to take more swings - in the first round of the draft then we have in the recent past. Three times in 24 years is not enough swings for the fence - IMO. For every, bust first round QB, you can find 2 or 3 bust veterans who never get you close but give you "we can win with him tease" if we surround him. This mentality/approach of thinking you have a proven veteran who is good enough even though he has not been proven to be a winner over 9 years (pretty good sample size) also prohibits the team to not look as hard at the Top first round QB's.
Of course, we enter this season with another year of KC and the majority of us knowing this is the year most will get their answer on KC (I already have mine .
But just like many hung on way to long supporting Zimmer until not....I am hoping that if KC led team produces another 8 or 9 win season but KC puts up good stats that we don't continue to rinse and repeat this same old "good enough" conversation/thought process.
Wow, you're leaving a lot out there, Minny. You can't compare contracts without also comparing their terms, total value, guaranteed money, etc.
In terms of avg. per year, Cousins ranks 9th. In terms of total contract value, his contract ranks 18th. Cap hit is a nearly meaningless factor because its constantly changing (and changeable) based on where you are in the term.
Vikings could cut Cousins' cap hit in half tomorrow simply by extending him. But I think we would all agree that's not in our best interest right now.
wasnt KC the highest paid QB over like the last 4 or 5 seasons? seems to me that is hard to take out of context when you are talking about a guy that only changes the terms of his deal ( accepts and extension) if it ultimately means that he gets more guaranteed money than what he was due to make previously. sure you can lower his cap hit this year, but you will just be kicking that can down the road, its not like you will be paying him less money over the terms of the deal.
Yes. It's the price you pay to avoid long-term commitment to a QB you're uncertain about. Again, in terms of total value, Cousins ranks 18th.
So Cousins will either shine in the new offense and get a long-term deal and a lower cap hit, placing him in better context with the QBs above, or he won't and the Vikings will draft a QB in the spring.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"minny65" said:
He married Gisselle in 2009 after negotiating 4 contracts and appearing in 4 SB's and going 3-1 for the team that drafted him.
Brady was on his rookie deal - 2001, year 2 - when he helped win the SB for the team that drafted him. Then they redid his rookie deal in 2002 to another pretty reasonable deal and he won his 2nd and third SB appearances in 2003 and 2004 for the team that drafted him.
Tom Brady 2002
Deal: 5 years, $30.52M
Signing Bonus: $10M
"In the last week of August of 2002, Brady got a new deal that would take him through 2006. As part of that deal, Brady would receive $250K for every AFC Championship win and $250K for every Super Bowl win. He’d realize $1M from those incentives thanks to the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He kept his initial 2002 salary of $375K, but the salaries jumped to $3.1M, $5.5M, $5.5M and $6M from 2003 through 2006. The Patriots tinkered with the deal in 2003 and 2004 to grab more cap space and dumped money forward so his cap charges in ‘05 and ’06 were slated to be $10M and $14M.
Lucrative though that may have seemed for a player that had started just 14 regular-season games, Drew Bledsoe’s deal with the Patriots signed just 18 months prior was for 10 years and $103M. So Brady was a bargain. "
Also, as I stated in my above response:
Then there is the unique Stafford (non SB proven at the time) situation where the Rams assumed the last two years of his Detroit contract for a CAP hit last year of 20 million and this year 13.5. Total CAP hit of 33.5 million for two years with a SB trophy in year 1. Kirk's CAP hit was about 31 million last year and is 31 million this year according to Spotrac. That is an extra 29 million (2 years) in CAP Space for the Rams to surround the QB with proven commodities and extend players like Ramsey, Donald etc.
The Broncos move to get a proven SB QB in Russel Wilson most resembles what the Rams were able to do with Stafford (IMO) but not with as much CAP savings. Wilson's Cap hit this year will be 24 million and then 27 million. Not crippling at all and you get a proven SB winning QB.
The Cousins situation (non SB proven) has also been unique because he is not a Brady/Peyton, of course, nor is he a Stafford situation contract (CAP saver) wise either. We have paid top dollar for mediocre results. We are paying Kirk the 3rd highest CAP hit this year at 31 million (Tannehill and Mahomes).
When you compare KC to the 3 other QB's above - the Vikings signed a non-proven SB QB for top dollar and keep kicking that can.
The Rams were able to get Stafford on the cheap and surround him with top talent with all the savings something the Vikings have been unable to do with KC.
Wilson is a pretty darn good bargain because he is a proven SB clutch QB and his CAP hits are reasonable over 2 years to build for a proven clutch QB - again KC is paid more and has won one playoff game.
Brady - see above - won first SB on rookie contract and then went 2-1 in SB's for his drafted team before he married Gisselle.
I go back to wanting to take more swings - in the first round of the draft then we have in the recent past. Three times in 24 years is not enough swings for the fence - IMO. For every, bust first round QB, you can find 2 or 3 bust veterans who never get you close but give you "we can win with him tease" if we surround him. This mentality/approach of thinking you have a proven veteran who is good enough even though he has not been proven to be a winner over 9 years (pretty good sample size) also prohibits the team to not look as hard at the Top first round QB's.
Of course, we enter this season with another year of KC and the majority of us knowing this is the year most will get their answer on KC (I already have mine .
But just like many hung on way to long supporting Zimmer until not....I am hoping that if KC led team produces another 8 or 9 win season but KC puts up good stats that we don't continue to rinse and repeat this same old "good enough" conversation/thought process.
Wow, you're leaving a lot out there, Minny. You can't compare contracts without also comparing their terms, total value, guaranteed money, etc.
In terms of avg. per year, Cousins ranks 9th. In terms of total contract value, his contract ranks 18th. Cap hit is a nearly meaningless factor because its constantly changing (and changeable) based on where you are in the term.
Vikings could cut Cousins' cap hit in half tomorrow simply by extending him. But I think we would all agree that's not in our best interest right now.
You are missing my overall point that disagrees with your initial post's about the approach of proven veteran vs drafting. You reference the Vikings, Bucs, Rams and Denver and I compared those teams QB to Cousins and showed the differences which are pretty clear.
Then you want to start talking about exact contract details which is minutia to my larger point which is the vast majority of SB starting QB's (both teams) were drafted by that team and are not proven veteran starters that you can win with. Brady, Wilson/Manning, are proven SB winners not proven veteran starters who you can win with like Cousins.
We disagree on QB approach and Cousins overall. I just hope that after this season we don't kick the Kirk can down the road again and we rip the band aide off and get serious about drafting a franchise QB and stop this "we can win with motiff" my goodness you can win with Trent Dilfer if the stars align
Quote:
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker...er-report/
Did the NFL know this was coming when they made the schedule? Browns play the Panthers week one. Another interesting match up week one will be Seattle vs. Denver. Drew Lock vs. Russell Wilson.
And didn't the Panthers learn from dealing with Cam? Swagger is great when you are winning. But it wears thin when you lose.
Quote: @"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker...er-report/
Did the NFL know this was coming when they made the schedule? Browns play the Panthers week one. Another interesting match up week one will be Seattle vs. Denver. Drew Lock vs. Russell Wilson.
And didn't the Panthers learn from dealing with Cam? Swagger is great when you are winning. But it wears thin when you lose.
Did someone mention swagger?
![[Image: rs_1024x759-150202082954-1024-Johnny-Man...center,top]](https://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201512/rs_1024x759-150202082954-1024-Johnny-Manziel-ls.2215_copy.jpg?fit=around|1024:759&output-quality=90&crop=1024:759;center,top)
Quote: @"StickyBun" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"StickyBun" said:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/baker...er-report/
Did the NFL know this was coming when they made the schedule? Browns play the Panthers week one. Another interesting match up week one will be Seattle vs. Denver. Drew Lock vs. Russell Wilson.
And didn't the Panthers learn from dealing with Cam? Swagger is great when you are winning. But it wears thin when you lose.
Did someone mention swagger?
is that some new modern way of saying dip shit coke head?
Quote: @"minny65" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"minny65" said:
He married Gisselle in 2009 after negotiating 4 contracts and appearing in 4 SB's and going 3-1 for the team that drafted him.
Brady was on his rookie deal - 2001, year 2 - when he helped win the SB for the team that drafted him. Then they redid his rookie deal in 2002 to another pretty reasonable deal and he won his 2nd and third SB appearances in 2003 and 2004 for the team that drafted him.
Tom Brady 2002
Deal: 5 years, $30.52M
Signing Bonus: $10M
"In the last week of August of 2002, Brady got a new deal that would take him through 2006. As part of that deal, Brady would receive $250K for every AFC Championship win and $250K for every Super Bowl win. He’d realize $1M from those incentives thanks to the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He kept his initial 2002 salary of $375K, but the salaries jumped to $3.1M, $5.5M, $5.5M and $6M from 2003 through 2006. The Patriots tinkered with the deal in 2003 and 2004 to grab more cap space and dumped money forward so his cap charges in ‘05 and ’06 were slated to be $10M and $14M.
Lucrative though that may have seemed for a player that had started just 14 regular-season games, Drew Bledsoe’s deal with the Patriots signed just 18 months prior was for 10 years and $103M. So Brady was a bargain. "
Also, as I stated in my above response:
Then there is the unique Stafford (non SB proven at the time) situation where the Rams assumed the last two years of his Detroit contract for a CAP hit last year of 20 million and this year 13.5. Total CAP hit of 33.5 million for two years with a SB trophy in year 1. Kirk's CAP hit was about 31 million last year and is 31 million this year according to Spotrac. That is an extra 29 million (2 years) in CAP Space for the Rams to surround the QB with proven commodities and extend players like Ramsey, Donald etc.
The Broncos move to get a proven SB QB in Russel Wilson most resembles what the Rams were able to do with Stafford (IMO) but not with as much CAP savings. Wilson's Cap hit this year will be 24 million and then 27 million. Not crippling at all and you get a proven SB winning QB.
The Cousins situation (non SB proven) has also been unique because he is not a Brady/Peyton, of course, nor is he a Stafford situation contract (CAP saver) wise either. We have paid top dollar for mediocre results. We are paying Kirk the 3rd highest CAP hit this year at 31 million (Tannehill and Mahomes).
When you compare KC to the 3 other QB's above - the Vikings signed a non-proven SB QB for top dollar and keep kicking that can.
The Rams were able to get Stafford on the cheap and surround him with top talent with all the savings something the Vikings have been unable to do with KC.
Wilson is a pretty darn good bargain because he is a proven SB clutch QB and his CAP hits are reasonable over 2 years to build for a proven clutch QB - again KC is paid more and has won one playoff game.
Brady - see above - won first SB on rookie contract and then went 2-1 in SB's for his drafted team before he married Gisselle.
I go back to wanting to take more swings - in the first round of the draft then we have in the recent past. Three times in 24 years is not enough swings for the fence - IMO. For every, bust first round QB, you can find 2 or 3 bust veterans who never get you close but give you "we can win with him tease" if we surround him. This mentality/approach of thinking you have a proven veteran who is good enough even though he has not been proven to be a winner over 9 years (pretty good sample size) also prohibits the team to not look as hard at the Top first round QB's.
Of course, we enter this season with another year of KC and the majority of us knowing this is the year most will get their answer on KC (I already have mine .
But just like many hung on way to long supporting Zimmer until not....I am hoping that if KC led team produces another 8 or 9 win season but KC puts up good stats that we don't continue to rinse and repeat this same old "good enough" conversation/thought process.
Wow, you're leaving a lot out there, Minny. You can't compare contracts without also comparing their terms, total value, guaranteed money, etc.
In terms of avg. per year, Cousins ranks 9th. In terms of total contract value, his contract ranks 18th. Cap hit is a nearly meaningless factor because its constantly changing (and changeable) based on where you are in the term.
Vikings could cut Cousins' cap hit in half tomorrow simply by extending him. But I think we would all agree that's not in our best interest right now.
You are missing my overall point that disagrees with your initial post's about the approach of proven veteran vs drafting. You reference the Vikings, Bucs, Rams and Denver and I compared those teams QB to Cousins and showed the differences which are pretty clear.
Then you want to start talking about exact contract details which is minutia to my larger point which is the vast majority of SB starting QB's (both teams) were drafted by that team and are not proven veteran starters that you can win with. Brady, Wilson/Manning, are proven SB winners not proven veteran starters who you can win with like Cousins.
We disagree on QB approach and Cousins overall. I just hope that after this season we don't kick the Kirk can down the road again and we rip the band aide off and get serious about drafting a franchise QB and stop this "we can win with motiff" my goodness you can win with Trent Dilfer if the stars align
Quote:
Minny, it's not that complicated. I believe the course followed by those teams is the better one, considering the failure rate of draft picks. You're the one who brought up contracts, which is irrelevant to the point. I also happen to believe the fact that some of them won Super Bowls is also irrelevant. Eli Manning and Joe Flacco won Super Bowls, but I wouldn't put them in the same category with Stafford and Cousins, who hadn't...yet.
But I agree that, good or bad, we need a definitive answer from Cousins this year.
The only metric to measure by is superbowls won. At least that's what all these Packer and Bears fans living in northeast Nebraska keep reminding me.
By that metric; Dilfer>Marino!
Good thing it is a team sport.
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