Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I really think it came down to what each candidate thought was best to do with the current roster for next year. I think Harbaugh was the outlier as he thought the roster was still in a win now mode and KOC's vision best meshed with Kwesi. I think all 4 candidates probably met the Wilfs' (and Kwesi's) criteria and it really came down to the vision for next year and beyond. 8 hour interviews would really allow everyone to truly vet a vision. I don't think you get a second interview unless you checked off all the required boxes -- I am sure Kwesi vouched for Harbaugh checking off the boxes.
Nyaah....I don't think that's true. I don't think any candidate would see this roster as a rebuild. Good God I would hope not. Dalvin, JJ, ISJ, Thielen, a completely rebuilt OL (the youngest in the NFL), Hunter, DT, Pierce (if we want him), Kendricks, Harry. This IS a win now roster and I suspect that KAM and KOC will treat it as such.
The only thing that could change that is the QB. You either extend him short-term and go for it again, trade him for a downgrade but still playoff-capable QB (Mayfield, Jimmy G) or you trade him for picks, which means you saddle Dalvin and JJ with Kellen Mond. Yikes. I guess you could sign a bridge (Teddy).
And this is why the NFL offseason is fun. We will see in short order where the Vikings are going in the near future.
BTW, I am guessing Dalvin does not fit Kwesi's vision of salary cap position allocation.
I think this offseason will remind people of Bette Davis: Hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Dalvin's contract is 4th among running backs and he outproduced all three ahead of him. Btw, Dalvin ranks about 120th to 130th among all players in terms of salary. 4th among RBs is about 125th among all players. Those who think diminishing RB value in the NFL isn't already baked into their salaries should make a note of that.
But you're right. KAM may indeed decide it's too much for his offense, given that this team may pass more. But keep in mind the Rams had their own Dalvin in Cam Akers (until he was hurt this year). They took him in the 2nd round year before last. Another 2nd rounder from FSU who is nearly identical in terms size, speed and wide zone experience. I have a hunch KOC will want Dalvin on his team.
Exactly... I mean anything is possible, but I'd lean towards Kevin O'Connell wanting to retain all our skill players and Kirk Cousins. We're 3 deep at WR like the Rams have been over the past 5 years... they've relied heavily on a balanced attack with motion to confuse defenses. They are multiple on offense.
I guess I have a hard time seeing Kevin O'Connell doing his research into our personnel and walking into the interview saying let's trade Dalvin and Kirk and blow this up. My guess is he laid out a plan on how each of our current offensive players could fit into the offense he wants to run.
My guess is that Kwesi has a strong view of what % of the cap should go to each position group but with a contingency fund that goes to players who are outliers -- real game changers. So, you take JJ and Thielen, Kwesi may allocate X% of the salary cap to the WR group but with JJ he would also pull from the game changer contingency fund. I would suspect that Kwesi would justify the same with Dalvin (for the time being).
To explain better: if the salary cap was 200 million, Kwesi would have an ideal allocation for each position group for 180 million with a 20 million outlier fund. If he thought 22 million was the proper allocation for the WR group, he could exceed that allocation by using some of the 20 million outlier fund for JJ.
Again, this is pure speculation.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Here is my take. Unless the Vikings get a top QB they have zero chance of great success. The exception would be super bowl defenses of the Bears, Bucs and Ravens. Look at all superbowl winners (except Nick Foles) and they are all house hold names. Any decent coordinator or head coach can look like a genius with a great QB. QB is key. Change my mind
Eli Manning both times. Only the 25th best defense in 2011 and 17th best in 2007 (Scoring Defense). 2015 Denver Broncos had a QB that could barely throw a football and they won a title.
Good examples. So are you disagreeing with my statement or are you making the point that there some exceptions? IMO QB is more important then the coach.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I really think it came down to what each candidate thought was best to do with the current roster for next year. I think Harbaugh was the outlier as he thought the roster was still in a win now mode and KOC's vision best meshed with Kwesi. I think all 4 candidates probably met the Wilfs' (and Kwesi's) criteria and it really came down to the vision for next year and beyond. 8 hour interviews would really allow everyone to truly vet a vision. I don't think you get a second interview unless you checked off all the required boxes -- I am sure Kwesi vouched for Harbaugh checking off the boxes.
Nyaah....I don't think that's true. I don't think any candidate would see this roster as a rebuild. Good God I would hope not. Dalvin, JJ, ISJ, Thielen, a completely rebuilt OL (the youngest in the NFL), Hunter, DT, Pierce (if we want him), Kendricks, Harry. This IS a win now roster and I suspect that KAM and KOC will treat it as such.
The only thing that could change that is the QB. You either extend him short-term and go for it again, trade him for a downgrade but still playoff-capable QB (Mayfield, Jimmy G) or you trade him for picks, which means you saddle Dalvin and JJ with Kellen Mond. Yikes. I guess you could sign a bridge (Teddy).
And this is why the NFL offseason is fun. We will see in short order where the Vikings are going in the near future.
BTW, I am guessing Dalvin does not fit Kwesi's vision of salary cap position allocation.
I think this offseason will remind people of Bette Davis: Hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Dalvin's contract is 4th among running backs and he outproduced all three ahead of him. Btw, Dalvin ranks about 120th to 130th among all players in terms of salary. 4th among RBs is about 125th among all players. Those who think diminishing RB value in the NFL isn't already baked into their salaries should make a note of that.
But you're right. KAM may indeed decide it's too much for his offense, given that this team may pass more. But keep in mind the Rams had their own Dalvin in Cam Akers (until he was hurt this year). They took him in the 2nd round year before last. Another 2nd rounder from FSU who is nearly identical in terms size, speed and wide zone experience. I have a hunch KOC will want Dalvin on his team.
Exactly... I mean anything is possible, but I'd lean towards Kevin O'Connell wanting to retain all our skill players and Kirk Cousins. We're 3 deep at WR like the Rams have been over the past 5 years... they've relied heavily on a balanced attack with motion to confuse defenses. They are multiple on offense.
I guess I have a hard time seeing Kevin O'Connell doing his research into our personnel and walking into the interview saying let's trade Dalvin and Kirk and blow this up. My guess is he laid out a plan on how each of our current offensive players could fit into the offense he wants to run.
I'm no capologist, but for the life of me I'm trying to picture how an extension for KC would look that would be a meaningful step toward reducing the cap, while still retaining both Dalvin & AT, provide room to add to the defense & sign the draft class.
Quote: @Still Hurtn said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Here is my take. Unless the Vikings get a top QB they have zero chance of great success. The exception would be super bowl defenses of the Bears, Bucs and Ravens. Look at all superbowl winners (except Nick Foles) and they are all house hold names. Any decent coordinator or head coach can look like a genius with a great QB. QB is key. Change my mind
Eli Manning both times. Only the 25th best defense in 2011 and 17th best in 2007 (Scoring Defense). 2015 Denver Broncos had a QB that could barely throw a football and they won a title.
Good examples. So are you disagreeing with my statement or are you making the point that there some exceptions? IMO QB is more important then the coach.
I think there are exceptions and we see more parity in the NFL now that Brady has retired. This year it could be Stafford who wins a super bowl and he's not elite. Mahomes is elite but the Bengals dropped 8 in the second half and contained him. QB is arguably the most important position for a team, but it isn't a make or break as some times you just need luck and need to get hot. Joe Flacco was never the best QB but he got hot that postseason and they won it all.
Quote: @Hawkvike25 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Here is my take. Unless the Vikings get a top QB they have zero chance of great success. The exception would be super bowl defenses of the Bears, Bucs and Ravens. Look at all superbowl winners (except Nick Foles) and they are all house hold names. Any decent coordinator or head coach can look like a genius with a great QB. QB is key. Change my mind
Eli Manning both times. Only the 25th best defense in 2011 and 17th best in 2007 (Scoring Defense). 2015 Denver Broncos had a QB that could barely throw a football and they won a title.
Good examples. So are you disagreeing with my statement or are you making the point that there some exceptions? IMO QB is more important then the coach.
I think there are exceptions and we see more parity in the NFL now that Brady has retired. This year it could be Stafford who wins a super bowl and he's not elite. Mahomes is elite but the Bengals dropped 8 in the second half and contained him. QB is arguably the most important position for a team, but it isn't a make or break as some times you just need luck and need to get hot. Joe Flacco was never the best QB but he got hot that postseason and they won it all.
Don't forget when Dilfer continued his "ice-cold" season for the other Ravens Super Bowl run 
Quote: @Knucklehead said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I really think it came down to what each candidate thought was best to do with the current roster for next year. I think Harbaugh was the outlier as he thought the roster was still in a win now mode and KOC's vision best meshed with Kwesi. I think all 4 candidates probably met the Wilfs' (and Kwesi's) criteria and it really came down to the vision for next year and beyond. 8 hour interviews would really allow everyone to truly vet a vision. I don't think you get a second interview unless you checked off all the required boxes -- I am sure Kwesi vouched for Harbaugh checking off the boxes.
Nyaah....I don't think that's true. I don't think any candidate would see this roster as a rebuild. Good God I would hope not. Dalvin, JJ, ISJ, Thielen, a completely rebuilt OL (the youngest in the NFL), Hunter, DT, Pierce (if we want him), Kendricks, Harry. This IS a win now roster and I suspect that KAM and KOC will treat it as such.
The only thing that could change that is the QB. You either extend him short-term and go for it again, trade him for a downgrade but still playoff-capable QB (Mayfield, Jimmy G) or you trade him for picks, which means you saddle Dalvin and JJ with Kellen Mond. Yikes. I guess you could sign a bridge (Teddy).
And this is why the NFL offseason is fun. We will see in short order where the Vikings are going in the near future.
BTW, I am guessing Dalvin does not fit Kwesi's vision of salary cap position allocation.
I think this offseason will remind people of Bette Davis: Hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Dalvin's contract is 4th among running backs and he outproduced all three ahead of him. Btw, Dalvin ranks about 120th to 130th among all players in terms of salary. 4th among RBs is about 125th among all players. Those who think diminishing RB value in the NFL isn't already baked into their salaries should make a note of that.
But you're right. KAM may indeed decide it's too much for his offense, given that this team may pass more. But keep in mind the Rams had their own Dalvin in Cam Akers (until he was hurt this year). They took him in the 2nd round year before last. Another 2nd rounder from FSU who is nearly identical in terms size, speed and wide zone experience. I have a hunch KOC will want Dalvin on his team.
Exactly... I mean anything is possible, but I'd lean towards Kevin O'Connell wanting to retain all our skill players and Kirk Cousins. We're 3 deep at WR like the Rams have been over the past 5 years... they've relied heavily on a balanced attack with motion to confuse defenses. They are multiple on offense.
I guess I have a hard time seeing Kevin O'Connell doing his research into our personnel and walking into the interview saying let's trade Dalvin and Kirk and blow this up. My guess is he laid out a plan on how each of our current offensive players could fit into the offense he wants to run.
I'm no capologist, but for the life of me I'm trying to picture how an extension for KC would look that would be a meaningful step toward reducing the cap, while still retaining both Dalvin & AT, provide room to add to the defense & sign the draft class.
Kirk's cap hit is $45M in 2022. A 3 or 4-year extension could cut that in half. Of course the more savings they pull out for '22 means the more they add to future years, so the Vikings have a big decision to make about their QB.
I think the biggest place to find savings is in Hunter's contract. His hit is $26M in '22 so, given that he's only 27, you could easily give him a long-term contract and pull out about $20M in savings. But then you have the injury concern. Do you give a long-term contract to a guy who's missed the last two seasons? I would say yes, but I don't think everyone would agree.
No easy decisions.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I really think it came down to what each candidate thought was best to do with the current roster for next year. I think Harbaugh was the outlier as he thought the roster was still in a win now mode and KOC's vision best meshed with Kwesi. I think all 4 candidates probably met the Wilfs' (and Kwesi's) criteria and it really came down to the vision for next year and beyond. 8 hour interviews would really allow everyone to truly vet a vision. I don't think you get a second interview unless you checked off all the required boxes -- I am sure Kwesi vouched for Harbaugh checking off the boxes.
Nyaah....I don't think that's true. I don't think any candidate would see this roster as a rebuild. Good God I would hope not. Dalvin, JJ, ISJ, Thielen, a completely rebuilt OL (the youngest in the NFL), Hunter, DT, Pierce (if we want him), Kendricks, Harry. This IS a win now roster and I suspect that KAM and KOC will treat it as such.
The only thing that could change that is the QB. You either extend him short-term and go for it again, trade him for a downgrade but still playoff-capable QB (Mayfield, Jimmy G) or you trade him for picks, which means you saddle Dalvin and JJ with Kellen Mond. Yikes. I guess you could sign a bridge (Teddy).
And this is why the NFL offseason is fun. We will see in short order where the Vikings are going in the near future.
BTW, I am guessing Dalvin does not fit Kwesi's vision of salary cap position allocation.
I think this offseason will remind people of Bette Davis: Hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Dalvin's contract is 4th among running backs and he outproduced all three ahead of him. Btw, Dalvin ranks about 120th to 130th among all players in terms of salary. 4th among RBs is about 125th among all players. Those who think diminishing RB value in the NFL isn't already baked into their salaries should make a note of that.
But you're right. KAM may indeed decide it's too much for his offense, given that this team may pass more. But keep in mind the Rams had their own Dalvin in Cam Akers (until he was hurt this year). They took him in the 2nd round year before last. Another 2nd rounder from FSU who is nearly identical in terms size, speed and wide zone experience. I have a hunch KOC will want Dalvin on his team.
Exactly... I mean anything is possible, but I'd lean towards Kevin O'Connell wanting to retain all our skill players and Kirk Cousins. We're 3 deep at WR like the Rams have been over the past 5 years... they've relied heavily on a balanced attack with motion to confuse defenses. They are multiple on offense.
I guess I have a hard time seeing Kevin O'Connell doing his research into our personnel and walking into the interview saying let's trade Dalvin and Kirk and blow this up. My guess is he laid out a plan on how each of our current offensive players could fit into the offense he wants to run.
I'm no capologist, but for the life of me I'm trying to picture how an extension for KC would look that would be a meaningful step toward reducing the cap, while still retaining both Dalvin & AT, provide room to add to the defense & sign the draft class.
Kirk's cap hit is $45M in 2022. A 3 or 4-year extension could cut that in half. Of course the more savings they pull out for '22 means the more they add to future years, so the Vikings have a big decision to make about their QB.
I think the biggest place to find savings is in Hunter's contract. His hit is $26M in '22 so, given that he's only 27, you could easily give him a long-term contract and pull out about $20M in savings. But then you have the injury concern. Do you give a long-term contract to a guy who's missed the last two seasons? I would say yes, but I don't think everyone would agree.
No easy decisions.
I'd love to see Hunter stay. The injuries seemed to be of the fluke variety, and he showed he was his dominant self coming off the neck issue.
Quote: @PurpleCrush said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I really think it came down to what each candidate thought was best to do with the current roster for next year. I think Harbaugh was the outlier as he thought the roster was still in a win now mode and KOC's vision best meshed with Kwesi. I think all 4 candidates probably met the Wilfs' (and Kwesi's) criteria and it really came down to the vision for next year and beyond. 8 hour interviews would really allow everyone to truly vet a vision. I don't think you get a second interview unless you checked off all the required boxes -- I am sure Kwesi vouched for Harbaugh checking off the boxes.
Nyaah....I don't think that's true. I don't think any candidate would see this roster as a rebuild. Good God I would hope not. Dalvin, JJ, ISJ, Thielen, a completely rebuilt OL (the youngest in the NFL), Hunter, DT, Pierce (if we want him), Kendricks, Harry. This IS a win now roster and I suspect that KAM and KOC will treat it as such.
The only thing that could change that is the QB. You either extend him short-term and go for it again, trade him for a downgrade but still playoff-capable QB (Mayfield, Jimmy G) or you trade him for picks, which means you saddle Dalvin and JJ with Kellen Mond. Yikes. I guess you could sign a bridge (Teddy).
And this is why the NFL offseason is fun. We will see in short order where the Vikings are going in the near future.
BTW, I am guessing Dalvin does not fit Kwesi's vision of salary cap position allocation.
I think this offseason will remind people of Bette Davis: Hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Dalvin's contract is 4th among running backs and he outproduced all three ahead of him. Btw, Dalvin ranks about 120th to 130th among all players in terms of salary. 4th among RBs is about 125th among all players. Those who think diminishing RB value in the NFL isn't already baked into their salaries should make a note of that.
But you're right. KAM may indeed decide it's too much for his offense, given that this team may pass more. But keep in mind the Rams had their own Dalvin in Cam Akers (until he was hurt this year). They took him in the 2nd round year before last. Another 2nd rounder from FSU who is nearly identical in terms size, speed and wide zone experience. I have a hunch KOC will want Dalvin on his team.
Exactly... I mean anything is possible, but I'd lean towards Kevin O'Connell wanting to retain all our skill players and Kirk Cousins. We're 3 deep at WR like the Rams have been over the past 5 years... they've relied heavily on a balanced attack with motion to confuse defenses. They are multiple on offense.
I guess I have a hard time seeing Kevin O'Connell doing his research into our personnel and walking into the interview saying let's trade Dalvin and Kirk and blow this up. My guess is he laid out a plan on how each of our current offensive players could fit into the offense he wants to run.
I'm no capologist, but for the life of me I'm trying to picture how an extension for KC would look that would be a meaningful step toward reducing the cap, while still retaining both Dalvin & AT, provide room to add to the defense & sign the draft class.
Kirk's cap hit is $45M in 2022. A 3 or 4-year extension could cut that in half. Of course the more savings they pull out for '22 means the more they add to future years, so the Vikings have a big decision to make about their QB.
I think the biggest place to find savings is in Hunter's contract. His hit is $26M in '22 so, given that he's only 27, you could easily give him a long-term contract and pull out about $20M in savings. But then you have the injury concern. Do you give a long-term contract to a guy who's missed the last two seasons? I would say yes, but I don't think everyone would agree.
No easy decisions.
I'd love to see Hunter stay. The injuries seemed to be of the fluke variety, and he showed he was his dominant self coming off the neck issue.
Management obviously has no problem extending guys who have been hurt. Hunter should be no different. Young and fairly dominant when available.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
@ Hawkvike25 said:
@ Still Hurtn said:
Here is my take. Unless the Vikings get a top QB they have zero chance of great success. The exception would be super bowl defenses of the Bears, Bucs and Ravens. Look at all superbowl winners (except Nick Foles) and they are all house hold names. Any decent coordinator or head coach can look like a genius with a great QB. QB is key. Change my mind
Eli Manning both times. Only the 25th best defense in 2011 and 17th best in 2007 (Scoring Defense). 2015 Denver Broncos had a QB that could barely throw a football and they won a title.
Good examples. So are you disagreeing with my statement or are you making the point that there some exceptions? IMO QB is more important then the coach.
I think there are exceptions and we see more parity in the NFL now that Brady has retired. This year it could be Stafford who wins a super bowl and he's not elite. Mahomes is elite but the Bengals dropped 8 in the second half and contained him. QB is arguably the most important position for a team, but it isn't a make or break as some times you just need luck and need to get hot. Joe Flacco was never the best QB but he got hot that postseason and they won it all.
Don't forget when Dilfer continued his "ice-cold" season for the other Ravens Super Bowl run
Yeah I was trying to think of QB's that weren't on absolute dominant defensive teams. Big Ben's first title was before he was great
|
