Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
I think if you cut Reiff, you need to go all in on the rebuild, call 2021 a transition year where we develop cap freedom in the future. There will be too many question marks to realistically field a SB caliber team, and you need to maximize your future chances. This team can't go into 2021 with a suspect defense and also hamstringing the offense by weakening the OLine.
So Riley Freaking Reiff represents the plug in the boat? The cornerstone holding it all together? Without whom, we tear it all up, throw Dalvin, JJ, Hunter and Kendricks in the back and head down the rebuild road? You don't think you're overreacting just a teensy bit?
Look, the only reason Reiff is such a big question mark is because we've actually prepared to replace him. We drafted a left tackle last year and Reiff's contract this year is such that moving on from him makes financial sense. Problem is, he went and had himself a very good year. So there's the problem.
Personally, I think our line needs all the help it can get and so I try to keep him, but if his contract can turn into Geno Atkins or Joe Thuney? It might be time to start the Cleveland era.
I’m saying that the Vikings 2021 SB chances are already very
slim. We’re on the wrong side of the
salary cap progression. We’ve got a
massive improvement we need to make on defense, and we’re probably only
returning 2 missing starters, as I have to imagine that Barr is out, and we’ll
likely lose Harris. Looking at our 2020
OLine, With Cleveland at G, we had a barely good enough OLine given our
exceptional skill position talent.
Without Cleveland at G, we heard constant references to Cousins not
having enough time, Bradford not having someone solid next to him, etc. Regardless, at the end of the SB, all we saw
was people referencing how subpar our OLine and how much of a difference
Mahomes’s OLine’s regression impacted their production. I don’t think our OLine can support a SB
caliber offense if it regresses from last year.
It was barely functional this year and it should really be upgraded if
we’re serious about a SB run. If we cut
Reiff, we’re going to be going into the next offseason with at least two holes
and three question marks on the OLine.
At that point you are just praying for a miracle that it all holds up
despite a decade of us seeing subpar OLine play, compounding it with the
unlikely situation that we can field a SB caliber defense in 2021. The odds aren’t good. I think our only real hope at a 2021 SB is
improving our offense to top 3, add to the DLine, and hoping that Zimmer can
work magic on defense and get that unit to top 10. We’re not going to build a dominant defense
in one year. We’re one more player on
offense now away from being dominant on that side of the ball. I don’t think
there is any room for cutting Reiff and hoping options develop, and I don’t
think Spielman has shown any real willingness to fill multiple holes on the
OLine with starting caliber players in any given offseason during the Zimmer
era.
We really should have accepted that we needed to have a
rebuild year where we made sacrifices to give ourselves the ability to be on
the right side of the cap progression, to have options in free agency. Instead we made a ton of bad choices. We resigned Barr who’s midlevel but not an
impact player. We kept Harris for a
year, even though we can’t afford him long term. We committed to Diggs long term, and then he
forced his way out. We traded for
Ngakoue and then traded again, losing picks and $7M in cap space. All we succeeded in doing is stretching out
the subpar seasons into multiple years.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
I think if you cut Reiff, you need to go all in on the rebuild, call 2021 a transition year where we develop cap freedom in the future. There will be too many question marks to realistically field a SB caliber team, and you need to maximize your future chances. This team can't go into 2021 with a suspect defense and also hamstringing the offense by weakening the OLine.
So Riley Freaking Reiff represents the plug in the boat? The cornerstone holding it all together? Without whom, we tear it all up, throw Dalvin, JJ, Hunter and Kendricks in the back and head down the rebuild road? You don't think you're overreacting just a teensy bit?
Look, the only reason Reiff is such a big question mark is because we've actually prepared to replace him. We drafted a left tackle last year and Reiff's contract this year is such that moving on from him makes financial sense. Problem is, he went and had himself a very good year. So there's the problem.
Personally, I think our line needs all the help it can get and so I try to keep him, but if his contract can turn into Geno Atkins or Joe Thuney? It might be time to start the Cleveland era.
I’m saying that the Vikings 2021 SB chances are already very
slim. We’re on the wrong side of the
salary cap progression. We’ve got a
massive improvement we need to make on defense, and we’re probably only
returning 2 missing starters, as I have to imagine that Barr is out, and we’ll
likely lose Harris. Looking at our 2020
OLine, With Cleveland at G, we had a barely good enough OLine given our
exceptional skill position talent.
Without Cleveland at G, we heard constant references to Cousins not
having enough time, Bradford not having someone solid next to him, etc. Regardless, at the end of the SB, all we saw
was people referencing how subpar our OLine and how much of a difference
Mahomes’s OLine’s regression impacted their production. I don’t think our OLine can support a SB
caliber offense if it regresses from last year.
It was barely functional this year and it should really be upgraded if
we’re serious about a SB run. If we cut
Reiff, we’re going to be going into the next offseason with at least two holes
and three question marks on the OLine.
At that point you are just praying for a miracle that it all holds up
despite a decade of us seeing subpar OLine play, compounding it with the
unlikely situation that we can field a SB caliber defense in 2021. The odds aren’t good. I think our only real hope at a 2021 SB is
improving our offense to top 3, add to the DLine, and hoping that Zimmer can
work magic on defense and get that unit to top 10. We’re not going to build a dominant defense
in one year. We’re one more player on
offense now away from being dominant on that side of the ball. I don’t think
there is any room for cutting Reiff and hoping options develop, and I don’t
think Spielman has shown any real willingness to fill multiple holes on the
OLine with starting caliber players in any given offseason during the Zimmer
era.
We really should have accepted that we needed to have a
rebuild year where we made sacrifices to give ourselves the ability to be on
the right side of the cap progression, to have options in free agency. Instead we made a ton of bad choices. We resigned Barr who’s midlevel but not an
impact player. We kept Harris for a
year, even though we can’t afford him long term. We committed to Diggs long term, and then he
forced his way out. We traded for
Ngakoue and then traded again, losing picks and $7M in cap space. All we succeeded in doing is stretching out
the subpar seasons into multiple years.
I think all of this boils down to how the Wilfs want to be viewed as an organization. Of course they want to win a SB, everyone does. But they want to be a model of consistency more than anything else. That means trying to replicate what the Steelers, Giants (outside of the past most recent seasons), and Seahawks have done. That is to consistency be in the conversation to make the playoffs. So the approach you're seeing today is to accomplish that.
The risk/reward approach of rebuilding has its perks. I won't deny you the fact that some of the most successful teams had to break it all down before winning it all. But there are also plenty of organizations that went that route and couldn't catch their footing.
Its just not a risk that is worth taking when you're in a spot to at least compete now. But as you kind of laid out it may not put you as the odds on favorite to win the SB by Vegas odds. Doesn't mean it can't happen though.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ medaille said:
I think if you cut Reiff, you need to go all in on the rebuild, call 2021 a transition year where we develop cap freedom in the future. There will be too many question marks to realistically field a SB caliber team, and you need to maximize your future chances. This team can't go into 2021 with a suspect defense and also hamstringing the offense by weakening the OLine.
So Riley Freaking Reiff represents the plug in the boat? The cornerstone holding it all together? Without whom, we tear it all up, throw Dalvin, JJ, Hunter and Kendricks in the back and head down the rebuild road? You don't think you're overreacting just a teensy bit?
Look, the only reason Reiff is such a big question mark is because we've actually prepared to replace him. We drafted a left tackle last year and Reiff's contract this year is such that moving on from him makes financial sense. Problem is, he went and had himself a very good year. So there's the problem.
Personally, I think our line needs all the help it can get and so I try to keep him, but if his contract can turn into Geno Atkins or Joe Thuney? It might be time to start the Cleveland era.
I’m saying that the Vikings 2021 SB chances are already very
slim. We’re on the wrong side of the
salary cap progression. We’ve got a
massive improvement we need to make on defense, and we’re probably only
returning 2 missing starters, as I have to imagine that Barr is out, and we’ll
likely lose Harris. Looking at our 2020
OLine, With Cleveland at G, we had a barely good enough OLine given our
exceptional skill position talent.
Without Cleveland at G, we heard constant references to Cousins not
having enough time, Bradford not having someone solid next to him, etc. Regardless, at the end of the SB, all we saw
was people referencing how subpar our OLine and how much of a difference
Mahomes’s OLine’s regression impacted their production. I don’t think our OLine can support a SB
caliber offense if it regresses from last year.
It was barely functional this year and it should really be upgraded if
we’re serious about a SB run. If we cut
Reiff, we’re going to be going into the next offseason with at least two holes
and three question marks on the OLine.
At that point you are just praying for a miracle that it all holds up
despite a decade of us seeing subpar OLine play, compounding it with the
unlikely situation that we can field a SB caliber defense in 2021. The odds aren’t good. I think our only real hope at a 2021 SB is
improving our offense to top 3, add to the DLine, and hoping that Zimmer can
work magic on defense and get that unit to top 10. We’re not going to build a dominant defense
in one year. We’re one more player on
offense now away from being dominant on that side of the ball. I don’t think
there is any room for cutting Reiff and hoping options develop, and I don’t
think Spielman has shown any real willingness to fill multiple holes on the
OLine with starting caliber players in any given offseason during the Zimmer
era.
We really should have accepted that we needed to have a
rebuild year where we made sacrifices to give ourselves the ability to be on
the right side of the cap progression, to have options in free agency. Instead we made a ton of bad choices. We resigned Barr who’s midlevel but not an
impact player. We kept Harris for a
year, even though we can’t afford him long term. We committed to Diggs long term, and then he
forced his way out. We traded for
Ngakoue and then traded again, losing picks and $7M in cap space. All we succeeded in doing is stretching out
the subpar seasons into multiple years.
I think all of this boils down to how the Wilfs want to be viewed as an organization. Of course they want to win a SB, everyone does. But they want to be a model of consistency more than anything else. That means trying to replicate what the Steelers, Giants (outside of the past most recent seasons), and Seahawks have done. That is to consistency be in the conversation to make the playoffs. So the approach you're seeing today is to accomplish that.
The risk/reward approach of rebuilding has its perks. I won't deny you the fact that some of the most successful teams had to break it all down before winning it all. But there are also plenty of organizations that went that route and couldn't catch their footing.
Its just not a risk that is worth taking when you're in a spot to at least compete now. But as you kind of laid out it may not put you as the odds on favorite to win the SB by Vegas odds. Doesn't mean it can't happen though.
Geoff, I believe you are trying to console us with the Wilfs' approach - patient, prudent, staying the course.
Nope.
You may be accurately describing what they believe, but if so, I think they will drag this team through years of mediocrity because they are working from a bad assumption. Are the Steelers, Giants, and Seahawks truly paragons of consistency? Seahawks were also-rans, weaker than the Vikings, until they found Russell Wilson just 9 years ago (and the Wilson era might be unraveling). Is the Wilfs' perspective that short? And the Giants have had MANY stretches of lousy performance (and coach turnover and rebuilds) before the past few - I remember Ray Perkins, Ray Handley, Dan Reeves, and many more. I know the Wilfs are fawning over Parcells and Coughlin, but those coaches had great QBs. They also both won Super Bowls within 4 years after being hired, or either could have been gone.
Even the Steelers have had rebuild seasons. Packers, Cowboys, and 49ers have all been held as models of "organizational consistency" - and then go into periods of crap and end up rebuilding. Anyone over 30 knows Green Bay sucked horrifically between Starr and Favre. Pass this note to the Wilfs: these "consistent" organizations win championships when they have HoF QBs.
Didn't this Super Bowl demonstrate beyond doubt that QB is the ONLY thing that matters? For two decades people have blathered about "the Patriot way", "next man up in New England", blah blah... But their QB left and the great organization sucked, no "next man up" happened - and Brady took a 7-9 team to a championship, even at 44 with probably half the arm talent he had when he won most of those SBs for the Pats.
No, I don't even think the Wilfs believe the "organizational consistency" bullshit. They're just playing this like a business, and they know the team will make roughly as much money for them with about 8 wins every year - just enough to keep all of us hoping they have a playoff chance and keep jersey sales strong at least until the Xmas shopping season is over. "Its just not a risk that is worth taking" - yes, they don't want to risk having a couple of 5-win seasons because then the local fans might quit buying tickets and souvenirs, or coming to their new hotel, or voting for tax breaks for their real estate ventures.
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