Quote: @purplefaithful said:
If the Vikings get the QBOTF right, thats more than 1/2 the battle.
IF they dont? It just doesnt matter what label we slap on it.
I would love to have seen how they stacked the QB's last year and this one.
That's just it. Rebuild is kind of a misnomer. All teams are rebuilding all the time. It's the tear-down part so many advocate that very few teams do. It's not a tear down if you're not trading away valuable assets. The Raiders did it when they traded Mack. The Bears did it when they traded the same dude, then Roquan. You could argue that the Lions did it when they traded Stafford. But the Lions have always been crap, so they've been picking in the top 10 for the last 30 years. I just think they're drafting better now, and they have a better coach.
There's no one-size-fits-all strategy. What might work for the Bears wouldn't necessarily work for the Vikings. I don't think you tear down a team with JJ, Addison, TJ, Darrisaw, O'Neill. And if a tear down is supposed to result in piles of cap space, the Vikings have $130M in cap space next year, coming off a season where they were, prior to Kirk's injury, easily one of the best teams in the NFC. That's kind of a rebuild. And a competitive one at that.
But again, it's all about the QB. You don't get that right, nothing else matters.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
The elusive great NFL QB: is it nature or nurture?
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/8/30/...tin-fields
You cant teach smart, but you can make your body stronger, faster etc...
Lawrence is a good case study - came out of Clemson with all the attributes including the hair. Urban almost destroyed the kid and Pederson is working on re-hab.
Football is also the most interdependent sport there is (which is why there is no such thing as a QB win). So the nurture/ surround plays a huge role. And all those highly drafted #1 picks with no surround? Struggle.
Not sure there is one right answer, but nature is a good starting point and the wrong nurture can sure destroy.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
The elusive great NFL QB: is it nature or nurture?
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/8/30/...tin-fields
Interesting article. This was written right after the 2020 draft class, more or less predicting futures for the QBs in that class based on their situations. As they point out, Wilson and Lance were going into completely different situations. One the worst possible. Forced to start right away, no one to develop him, bad line. The other went into the best possible situation. Was given time to develop, good surround, a line that had been together for a few years. They both failed
If the Vikings can sign Cousins, this has to be considered the gold standard for a rookie QB. If they don't, that QB could go into the same situation that Wilson found him in: "Wilson will lead the Jets out for Week 1, largely because there’s really no one else who can. The Jets have little to no experience within the quarterbacks room; backups Mike White and James Morgan have never thrown an NFL pass, while Josh Johnson is a career journeyman who was signed a week into training camp."
Mullens, Dobbs and Hall are better than that, but not by much.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ RS Express said:
If Kirk's been resigned, I'll be hopeful that we still take a QB and waiting to hear the reasons if they don't (it better be good Kwesi).
If Kirk's signed elsewhere, I'll be a wreck knowing we HAVE to land a QB and knowing that everyone else knows it too and is just waiting to pole vault over us :#
If the Vikings don't take a QB it will be because they have signed Cousins to a 3-year deal. I don't think that's very likely, but that's the only way this pick is not a QB.
Your second scenario won't happen. Kwesi's been a mixed bag so far. Some good decisions mixed with some bad. But if he goes into the draft without a presumptive starter, it will mean he's a fucking idiot and should be escorted out of the building with his boxes and stapler. No, just won't happen.
I think there’s a very real chance that Vikings don’t take a
QB, because all the ones we would take at 11 are gone and he can’t figure out a
trade that works according to his charts either to trade up from 11 or to get
one later in the first or early second.
I just don’t think he’s a guy that’s going to submit to the mob that
would draft Ponder again, and he’s not going to take one if the value is way
off. I think with all the QB needy teams
out there, I think we’ll probably need to be more aggressive in moving up than
Kwesi can tolerate, or we’ll like need to trade down a bit
Quote: @medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ RS Express said:
If Kirk's been resigned, I'll be hopeful that we still take a QB and waiting to hear the reasons if they don't (it better be good Kwesi).
If Kirk's signed elsewhere, I'll be a wreck knowing we HAVE to land a QB and knowing that everyone else knows it too and is just waiting to pole vault over us :#
If the Vikings don't take a QB it will be because they have signed Cousins to a 3-year deal. I don't think that's very likely, but that's the only way this pick is not a QB.
Your second scenario won't happen. Kwesi's been a mixed bag so far. Some good decisions mixed with some bad. But if he goes into the draft without a presumptive starter, it will mean he's a fucking idiot and should be escorted out of the building with his boxes and stapler. No, just won't happen.
I think there’s a very real chance that Vikings don’t take a
QB, because all the ones we would take at 11 are gone and he can’t figure out a
trade that works according to his charts either to trade up from 11 or to get
one later in the first or early second.
I just don’t think he’s a guy that’s going to submit to the mob that
would draft Ponder again, and he’s not going to take one if the value is way
off. I think with all the QB needy teams
out there, I think we’ll probably need to be more aggressive in moving up than
Kwesi can tolerate, or we’ll like need to trade down a bit
You might be right, so again (que Kentis), but what have we gained from the competitive rebuild philosophy? We can all acknowledge a legitimate QBOTF has been this teams biggest need going on 3 years now and we once again might be left holding an empty bag in the draft because we are just good enough to not be within range to land one. It's the same thing every year without getting any closer to a championship. It's incredibly frustrating to watch unfold every year
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ RS Express said:
If Kirk's been resigned, I'll be hopeful that we still take a QB and waiting to hear the reasons if they don't (it better be good Kwesi).
If Kirk's signed elsewhere, I'll be a wreck knowing we HAVE to land a QB and knowing that everyone else knows it too and is just waiting to pole vault over us :#
If the Vikings don't take a QB it will be because they have signed Cousins to a 3-year deal. I don't think that's very likely, but that's the only way this pick is not a QB.
Your second scenario won't happen. Kwesi's been a mixed bag so far. Some good decisions mixed with some bad. But if he goes into the draft without a presumptive starter, it will mean he's a fucking idiot and should be escorted out of the building with his boxes and stapler. No, just won't happen.
I think there’s a very real chance that Vikings don’t take a
QB, because all the ones we would take at 11 are gone and he can’t figure out a
trade that works according to his charts either to trade up from 11 or to get
one later in the first or early second.
I just don’t think he’s a guy that’s going to submit to the mob that
would draft Ponder again, and he’s not going to take one if the value is way
off. I think with all the QB needy teams
out there, I think we’ll probably need to be more aggressive in moving up than
Kwesi can tolerate, or we’ll like need to trade down a bit
You might be right, so again (que Kentis), but what have we gained from the competitive rebuild philosophy? We can all acknowledge a legitimate QBOTF has been this teams biggest need going on 3 years now and we once again might be left holding an empty bag in the draft because we are just good enough to not be within range to land one. It's the same thing every year without getting any closer to a championship. It's incredibly frustrating to watch unfold every year
I don’t think that’s the lesson I take from that possible scenario. The odds just aren’t great on any one QB you
draft becoming the guy. So lets say you
do this dramatic rebuild, the most likely scenario is that the prized new QB
you got is going to underwhelm or outright suck. Then what?
Now your rebuild is screwed up.
Do you do another rebuild where you cut all your players, tank, and then
draft another hopeful prospect? Do you
keep doing this process until you find the QB, maybe spending a decade or more
being a bottom dweller until the right QB shows up? Meanwhile, Mahomes was taken at 10, Rodgers
taken in the 20’s, Jackson and Hurts taken late first and mid second. Wilson in the third. I think you just have to plan on being ready to
take a QB when one becomes available to you, and don’t let yourself get
desperate, because you already have a guy that’s in the pipeline and I think I
want to have an offense that’s not fully depleted of talent for them to not
have to carry the load. Defense? I think you can let that thing whither until
you find a solid QB.
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