Quote: @"JimmyinSD" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"dadevike" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"dadevike" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"dadevike" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
I had the chance to visit with Zyg and Mark before a game in KC years ago, for gazillion aires they were very approachable and friendly, even if they did lie about the tailgating priority of a new stadium, I have to admit that I am still a fan of theirs as far as an ownership group goes.
The Wilfs are great people and great owners. On the flip side they've done nothing to show they know the game of football. Take the good with the bad
what owner knows the game of football? every owner out there gets blasted for how bad they screw things up. the best owners just hire football people and sign checks, those that try and be football people just end up looking the fool.
It can certainly be argued if they hired a "football person" in KAM. I think they carry unreasonable expectations a lot of times and project those expectations on to their football people instead of just allowing them to do their jobs. I firmly believe that's the reason our first choice for the job (Poles) took the Bears job instead
Who said he was the first choice? Do we know if he was for sure offered?
Poles was the first guy we interviewed and was widely considered to be the favorite. We waited on him to make a decision before we moved on to the fallback option in Kwesi, who to me was a political hire (at least partially) when examining the resumes of some of the other candidates interviewed. Particularly Spytek and Monti Ossenfort, who is now the GM of the Cardinals
I don't know about it being political. I assume it was at least partly because of his analytics-type background. KAM obviously did not grow up around the game.
Well can anyone name another GM who's primary football related background is limited to analytics? All of the final four teams last season are ran by GM's who's background is in scouting, player personnel, or is one of the greatest football players of all time (John Lynch). You can be the smartest, book smart guy on the planet, but that doesn't mean you know shit about football or building a roster. It's like hiring a college graduate with a masters degree and thinking because they are a college graduate they'd make a good cop or ski instructor for example, when one has no bearing on the other. He was such a completely outside the box hire and it gives me a good chuckle when I hear some on here down playing the opinions of others while justifying some of these things Kwesi has done, because, well, "he's a smart college guy so he must know what he is doing." Or, the "Wilfs wouldn't have hired him if they didnt know what they were doing." Let's not forget these are the same Wilfs who gave Brad Childress a contract extension after one good year with Favre, only to fire him the following season. The Wilfs are fans with a shit ton of money. So no, just because these guys are "in charge" doesn't mean they know what they are doing or are any smarter on the matter then you or I. I think that's something to keep in mind as we go through this transition and being objective
A couple of points:
First, you are arguing that the Vikings should have hired as GM the kind of folks the Vikings have always hired as GM, because that's how you win a SB. Fine. But it has been more than 60 years and we have 0 rings to show for it. Maybe it's OK to try something else, a plan B, at least for a little while. I know Plan B might not work. But we have been working Plan A for 60+ years without success.
Second, when they hired KAM the Vikings did not fire all of their scouts - those guys who grew up in the game and presumably have an eye for NFL talent. KAM is not alone in identifying players. The Vikings' scouting infrastructure is still in place.
What we really need is a guy who can identify a Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Favre, Montana, Warner, Brees, ... before they are drafted. (Atlanta had Favre and traded him to GB.) All of these HOF SB-winning QBs should have been the first overall pick in their drafts. None were. We can all recognize Peyton, Eli, Elway, Luck, Aikman, .... It's about the QB.
Get me a GM who can get the QB pick right and nobody will care what their background is.
Well let's be real, the Vikings have been below standards in the scouting department and undermanned for years until Spielman got in there and transformed things under the Wilfs. Do you remember the "triangle of authority" years or Tice and company bumbling trades, missing picks before the clock expired, and taking Troy Williamson and Erasmus James in the first round in the same year? So there's been a lot of reasons as to why the Vikings have never won a Super Bowl. With that said, going from a good traditional GM in Spieman, to someone who's total football experience is less then a decade long and is almost entirely comprised of analytics, is the blind swing of all swings. If they were looking to do something outside the box and appease the NFL by hiring a minority candidate, then hire someone who has some actual football experience. I'd have preferred them hand over the keys to Robert Smith, Chad Greenway, or almost anybody else with an actual feel for the game, football experience and a connection with the franchise.
Just as playing the game great doesn't make great coaches, I dont know that knowing the game more means you will be a better GM. We've had football GMs and still only have dust in the trophy case. Head scratchers and all, ya need to give KAM a chance to settle in and see what he can do. Whats the worst case....we don't win the superbowl, again?
It doesn't. Some of the best GMs in football never played. The guy in Philly, the guy in Pittsburgh, the guy in Buffalo. It's the trend. In fact, I think in 10 more years, the non-football guys will outnumber the football guys. And in 20 years, coaching will do the same.
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
The thing with smart guys is, they eventually figure it out. Usually sooner rather than later.
only the truly smart ones do, the ones that only think they are smart typically dont see that they are on a wrong path until they are on the unemployment line, which seems to happen quite often in pro sports.
I think he's done an OK job, especially considering he's trying to walk a very fine line between being competitive and retooling the roster. My only gripe so far is that he hadn't gotten as good a return with his trades as I felt he should have in his first draft.
With that being said, the team still has the makings of a really good offense, and as others have mentioned the defense can't get any worse than last year. So they should still be competitive all the while working on their cap situation.
I think he's been bad to this point. I don't care about the 13 wins they won with a new coach and Spielman's roster, I'm looking specifically at what has Adolfo-Mensah brought to the table. He's made one arguably good trade for Hockenson, but a handful of other trades that have been awful. He shit the bed in his first draft in every way possible, from trade value, to trading with division rivals, to the actual players selected and their collective lack of impact. Free agency has been non impactful under the cap crunch and this years first order of free agency business was to give a blocking TE a $21 million dollar contract. Nobody knows what we are doing or if this competitive rebuild is a good strategy. I contend its not and going the tank year route would be the better strategy. We still don't have a long term QB and are dicking around with Cousins, who you know they don't want and are only entertaining him because they have no other options. I didn't like the hire from the outset due to his collective lack of football experience and nothing I've seen to this point has changed that opinion. Let's see how this year plays out
We get it. You don't like him, for whatever reason. If you'd just look past the forest for the trees you'd see the signs of a potentially great offense, with the only question being whether they extend Kirk or draft his replacement next year. With another year in the system I think you'll see a more efficient (and as a result, more explosive) offense. Defensively, we just hired one of if not the best DC that was available. That defense is not going to be worse than last year, no matter how you slice it.
So, we have the foundation for a really great offense, a defense that has a lot of youngsters which will be lead by a really good DC, a bunch of cap space starting next year, and potentially a new QB hand selected by this regime.
Perfect? No, but show me any team building operation that is. I think Kwesi will be fine. He's got guys in his circle that he trusts like Grigson and others in the organization, along with a coach who just may be exactly what this franchise needs
Quote: @"PurpleCrush" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
The thing with smart guys is, they eventually figure it out. Usually sooner rather than later.
only the truly smart ones do, the ones that only think they are smart typically dont see that they are on a wrong path until they are on the unemployment line, which seems to happen quite often in pro sports.
I think he's done an OK job, especially considering he's trying to walk a very fine line between being competitive and retooling the roster. My only gripe so far is that he hadn't gotten as good a return with his trades as I felt he should have in his first draft.
With that being said, the team still has the makings of a really good offense, and as others have mentioned the defense can't get any worse than last year. So they should still be competitive all the while working on their cap situation.
I think he's been bad to this point. I don't care about the 13 wins they won with a new coach and Spielman's roster, I'm looking specifically at what has Adolfo-Mensah brought to the table. He's made one arguably good trade for Hockenson, but a handful of other trades that have been awful. He shit the bed in his first draft in every way possible, from trade value, to trading with division rivals, to the actual players selected and their collective lack of impact. Free agency has been non impactful under the cap crunch and this years first order of free agency business was to give a blocking TE a $21 million dollar contract. Nobody knows what we are doing or if this competitive rebuild is a good strategy. I contend its not and going the tank year route would be the better strategy. We still don't have a long term QB and are dicking around with Cousins, who you know they don't want and are only entertaining him because they have no other options. I didn't like the hire from the outset due to his collective lack of football experience and nothing I've seen to this point has changed that opinion. Let's see how this year plays out
We get it. You don't like him, for whatever reason. If you'd just look past the forest for the trees you'd see the signs of a potentially great offense, with the only question being whether they extend Kirk or draft his replacement next year. With another year in the system I think you'll see a more efficient (and as a result, more explosive) offense. Defensively, we just hired one of if not the best DC that was available. That defense is not going to be worse than last year, no matter how you slice it.
So, we have the foundation for a really great offense, a defense that has a lot of youngsters which will be lead by a really good DC, a bunch of cap space starting next year, and potentially a new QB hand selected by this regime.
Perfect? No, but show me any team building operation that is. I think Kwesi will be fine. He's got guys in his circle that he trusts like Grigson and others in the organization, along with a coach who just may be exactly what this franchise needs
Lol it's the fact that he has losers like Grigson in his ear that he trusts that makes me all the more concerned. Grigson of the infamous Trent Richardson trade and other disasters. Also Flores has never (ever) been a defensive coordinator before. I think the defense will be better, assuming Danielle Hunter is part of that group, but I won't hold my breath that we will see a leaps and bounds improvement.
It's great you all have blind faith in the guy, but I would bet this team gets much worse before it gets better
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
The thing with smart guys is, they eventually figure it out. Usually sooner rather than later.
only the truly smart ones do, the ones that only think they are smart typically dont see that they are on a wrong path until they are on the unemployment line, which seems to happen quite often in pro sports.
I think he's done an OK job, especially considering he's trying to walk a very fine line between being competitive and retooling the roster. My only gripe so far is that he hadn't gotten as good a return with his trades as I felt he should have in his first draft.
With that being said, the team still has the makings of a really good offense, and as others have mentioned the defense can't get any worse than last year. So they should still be competitive all the while working on their cap situation.
I think he's been bad to this point. I don't care about the 13 wins they won with a new coach and Spielman's roster, I'm looking specifically at what has Adolfo-Mensah brought to the table. He's made one arguably good trade for Hockenson, but a handful of other trades that have been awful. He shit the bed in his first draft in every way possible, from trade value, to trading with division rivals, to the actual players selected and their collective lack of impact. Free agency has been non impactful under the cap crunch and this years first order of free agency business was to give a blocking TE a $21 million dollar contract. Nobody knows what we are doing or if this competitive rebuild is a good strategy. I contend its not and going the tank year route would be the better strategy. We still don't have a long term QB and are dicking around with Cousins, who you know they don't want and are only entertaining him because they have no other options. I didn't like the hire from the outset due to his collective lack of football experience and nothing I've seen to this point has changed that opinion. Let's see how this year plays out
We get it. You don't like him, for whatever reason. If you'd just look past the forest for the trees you'd see the signs of a potentially great offense, with the only question being whether they extend Kirk or draft his replacement next year. With another year in the system I think you'll see a more efficient (and as a result, more explosive) offense. Defensively, we just hired one of if not the best DC that was available. That defense is not going to be worse than last year, no matter how you slice it.
So, we have the foundation for a really great offense, a defense that has a lot of youngsters which will be lead by a really good DC, a bunch of cap space starting next year, and potentially a new QB hand selected by this regime.
Perfect? No, but show me any team building operation that is. I think Kwesi will be fine. He's got guys in his circle that he trusts like Grigson and others in the organization, along with a coach who just may be exactly what this franchise needs
Lol it's the fact that he has losers like Grigson in his ear that he trusts that makes me all the more concerned. Grigson of the infamous Trent Richardson trade and other disasters. Also Flores has never (ever) been a defensive coordinator before. I think the defense will be better, assuming Danielle Hunter is part of that group, but I won't hold my breath that we will see a leaps and bounds improvement.
It's great you all have blind faith in the guy, but I would bet this team gets much worse before it gets better
I wouldn't say it's blind faith, it's just a matter of not being a negative Nancy after your team won 13 games and the Division, along with seeing a light at the end of the tunnel for all the aforementioned reasons. Like I said, the offense has a ton of young talent with the only question being what's next at QB. Oh, and having a nice amount of cap space coming in next year seems like a good thing too.
So, it might get worse, as in not winning 13 games next year, but not the doom and gloom that I believe you're proposing.
Quote: @"PurpleCrush" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
The thing with smart guys is, they eventually figure it out. Usually sooner rather than later.
only the truly smart ones do, the ones that only think they are smart typically dont see that they are on a wrong path until they are on the unemployment line, which seems to happen quite often in pro sports.
I think he's done an OK job, especially considering he's trying to walk a very fine line between being competitive and retooling the roster. My only gripe so far is that he hadn't gotten as good a return with his trades as I felt he should have in his first draft.
With that being said, the team still has the makings of a really good offense, and as others have mentioned the defense can't get any worse than last year. So they should still be competitive all the while working on their cap situation.
I think he's been bad to this point. I don't care about the 13 wins they won with a new coach and Spielman's roster, I'm looking specifically at what has Adolfo-Mensah brought to the table. He's made one arguably good trade for Hockenson, but a handful of other trades that have been awful. He shit the bed in his first draft in every way possible, from trade value, to trading with division rivals, to the actual players selected and their collective lack of impact. Free agency has been non impactful under the cap crunch and this years first order of free agency business was to give a blocking TE a $21 million dollar contract. Nobody knows what we are doing or if this competitive rebuild is a good strategy. I contend its not and going the tank year route would be the better strategy. We still don't have a long term QB and are dicking around with Cousins, who you know they don't want and are only entertaining him because they have no other options. I didn't like the hire from the outset due to his collective lack of football experience and nothing I've seen to this point has changed that opinion. Let's see how this year plays out
We get it. You don't like him, for whatever reason. If you'd just look past the forest for the trees you'd see the signs of a potentially great offense, with the only question being whether they extend Kirk or draft his replacement next year. With another year in the system I think you'll see a more efficient (and as a result, more explosive) offense. Defensively, we just hired one of if not the best DC that was available. That defense is not going to be worse than last year, no matter how you slice it.
So, we have the foundation for a really great offense, a defense that has a lot of youngsters which will be lead by a really good DC, a bunch of cap space starting next year, and potentially a new QB hand selected by this regime.
Perfect? No, but show me any team building operation that is. I think Kwesi will be fine. He's got guys in his circle that he trusts like Grigson and others in the organization, along with a coach who just may be exactly what this franchise needs
Lol it's the fact that he has losers like Grigson in his ear that he trusts that makes me all the more concerned. Grigson of the infamous Trent Richardson trade and other disasters. Also Flores has never (ever) been a defensive coordinator before. I think the defense will be better, assuming Danielle Hunter is part of that group, but I won't hold my breath that we will see a leaps and bounds improvement.
It's great you all have blind faith in the guy, but I would bet this team gets much worse before it gets better
I wouldn't say it's blind faith, it's just a matter of not being a negative Nancy after your team won 13 games and the Division, along with seeing a light at the end of the tunnel for all the aforementioned reasons. Like I said, the offense has a ton of young talent with the only question being what's next at QB. Oh, and having a nice amount of cap space coming in next year seems like a good thing too.
So, it might get worse, as in not winning 13 games next year, but not the doom and gloom that I believe you're proposing.
Like I said, 13 wins and getting bounced at home in the wild card round does nothing for me or most other lifelong fans. I don't care about division titles at this point. This team hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 47 years. As currently constructed, this team isn't one of the upper echelon teams in the conference (Eagles, 49ers, Dallas, Giants, etc) and all the teams ahead of us last season...are still ahead of us. The division will be much more difficult with a really good Lions team and an improving Bears team. Anybody thinking we don't miss a beat losing Dalvin Cook or our offense will be just as explosive or dangerous, is fooling themselves. They trade Hunter and that's a huge blow to this defense and we'll be starting Davenport and his whopping half a sack from last season, flanked by Patrick Jones or Wonnum. Opposing teams will sleep a lot better at night playing the Vikings minus Cook and Hunter. I think we are a 7 or 8 win football team this upcoming season and that's not doom and gloom, that's just an honest assessment of where this team is likely at for this upcoming season.
@"supafreak84" said:
Quote:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
@"JimmyinSD" said:
@"PurpleCrush" said:
The thing with smart guys is, they eventually figure it out. Usually sooner rather than later.
only the truly smart ones do, the ones that only think they are smart typically dont see that they are on a wrong path until they are on the unemployment line, which seems to happen quite often in pro sports.
I think he's done an OK job, especially considering he's trying to walk a very fine line between being competitive and retooling the roster. My only gripe so far is that he hadn't gotten as good a return with his trades as I felt he should have in his first draft.
With that being said, the team still has the makings of a really good offense, and as others have mentioned the defense can't get any worse than last year. So they should still be competitive all the while working on their cap situation.
I think he's been bad to this point. I don't care about the 13 wins they won with a new coach and Spielman's roster, I'm looking specifically at what has Adolfo-Mensah brought to the table. He's made one arguably good trade for Hockenson, but a handful of other trades that have been awful. He shit the bed in his first draft in every way possible, from trade value, to trading with division rivals, to the actual players selected and their collective lack of impact. Free agency has been non impactful under the cap crunch and this years first order of free agency business was to give a blocking TE a $21 million dollar contract. Nobody knows what we are doing or if this competitive rebuild is a good strategy. I contend its not and going the tank year route would be the better strategy. We still don't have a long term QB and are dicking around with Cousins, who you know they don't want and are only entertaining him because they have no other options. I didn't like the hire from the outset due to his collective lack of football experience and nothing I've seen to this point has changed that opinion. Let's see how this year plays out
We get it. You don't like him, for whatever reason. If you'd just look past the forest for the trees you'd see the signs of a potentially great offense, with the only question being whether they extend Kirk or draft his replacement next year. With another year in the system I think you'll see a more efficient (and as a result, more explosive) offense. Defensively, we just hired one of if not the best DC that was available. That defense is not going to be worse than last year, no matter how you slice it.
So, we have the foundation for a really great offense, a defense that has a lot of youngsters which will be lead by a really good DC, a bunch of cap space starting next year, and potentially a new QB hand selected by this regime.
Perfect? No, but show me any team building operation that is. I think Kwesi will be fine. He's got guys in his circle that he trusts like Grigson and others in the organization, along with a coach who just may be exactly what this franchise needs
Lol it's the fact that he has losers like Grigson in his ear that he trusts that makes me all the more concerned. Grigson of the infamous Trent Richardson trade and other disasters. Also Flores has never (ever) been a defensive coordinator before. I think the defense will be better, assuming Danielle Hunter is part of that group, but I won't hold my breath that we will see a leaps and bounds improvement.
It's great you all have blind faith in the guy, but I would bet this team gets much worse before it gets better
I wouldn't say it's blind faith, it's just a matter of not being a negative Nancy after your team won 13 games and the Division, along with seeing a light at the end of the tunnel for all the aforementioned reasons. Like I said, the offense has a ton of young talent with the only question being what's next at QB. Oh, and having a nice amount of cap space coming in next year seems like a good thing too.
So, it might get worse, as in not winning 13 games next year, but not the doom and gloom that I believe you're proposing.
Like I said, 13 wins and getting bounced at home in the wild card round does nothing for me or most other lifelong fans. I don't care about division titles at this point. This team hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 47 years. As currently constructed, this team isn't one of the upper echelon teams in the conference (Eagles, 49ers, Dallas, Giants, etc) and all the teams ahead of us last season...are still ahead of us. The division will be much more difficult with a really good Lions team and an improving Bears team. Anybody thinking we don't miss a beat losing Dalvin Cook or our offense will be just as explosive or dangerous, is fooling themselves. They trade Hunter and that's a huge blow to this defense and we'll be starting Davenport and his whopping half a sack from last season, flanked by Patrick Jones or Wonnum. Opposing teams will sleep a lot better at night playing the Vikings minus Cook and Hunter. I think we are a 7 or 8 win football team this upcoming season and that's not doom and gloom, that's just an honest assessment of where this team is likely at for this upcoming season.
I'll agree to disagree.
I'll venture to say that many longtime fans, myself included, were happy having an unforgettable 13 win season (even with the one and done). Now don't get me wrong, the goal every year is to win the Super Bowl. But let's be honest, only a few teams each year are viable contenders and fewer are built to last for a while. While you are on the glass half empty side, I think this team isn't as far off as you believe it is. There are only 2-3 teams that I believe are more talented than the Vikings in the NFC (no way I'm putting the Giants in that category). Detroit is still Detroit until they actually prove it on the field. Bears are still trotting out Fields who hasn't done squat up until this point and he too needs to prove it on the field.
|
