It's one thing to draft poorly

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@comet52 said:

@FLVike said:

Not a good first draft for Kwesi but that is only a part of the GM job.
True, allowing the Lions to move up 20 spots in the first round for basically peanuts.............

This is the one that ticks me off.  Other teams doing similar deals in recent years got back a first.  Detroit's first next year could net us a QBOTF... if we had it.

The Hockensen trade seems ok to me.  His rankings vs. Irv are an eye-opener (and he did it with Jared Goff):

Those differentials are also for this year only.  Hock has been even better than his current stats in previous seasons.  He really only had the one huge game this year and then Goff forgot about him.  I'm surprised you think this trade is just OK, though.  We basically gave up 40 spots from late 2nd round to early 3rd round next year for those statistical differences which I think warrants more than just an OK, I think it is a steal for us when you consider he is signed through next year, 25 yrs old and former Pro Bowler.  

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@minny65 said:

@comet52 said:

@FLVike said:

Not a good first draft for Kwesi but that is only a part of the GM job.
True, allowing the Lions to move up 20 spots in the first round for basically peanuts.............

This is the one that ticks me off.  Other teams doing similar deals in recent years got back a first.  Detroit's first next year could net us a QBOTF... if we had it.

The Hockensen trade seems ok to me.  His rankings vs. Irv are an eye-opener (and he did it with Jared Goff):

Those differentials are also for this year only.  Hock has been even better than his current stats in previous seasons.  He really only had the one huge game this year and then Goff forgot about him.  I'm surprised you think this trade is just OK, though.  We basically gave up 40 spots from late 2nd round to early 3rd round next year for those statistical differences which I think warrants more than just an OK, I think it is a steal for us when you consider he is signed through next year, 25 yrs old and former Pro Bowler.  

I think the biggest key is going to be the fact that he's very good in both the run and passing game, so there's not going to be a tendency tip off to the defense like there was when we'd switch between Irv and Mundt.

Also, I got the impression from KOC's comments that Irv, likely due to missing training camp, was still lagging behind in the new offense, specifically the routes he was supposed to run. Now, we can't expect TJH to come in and know the offense right away, but just that first part is going to help this offense, a little at first, but a lot later on. 

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@MaroonBells said:

@minny65 said:
Yea and this is a whole new regime that did this Hockenson deal so they are continuing a trend for the Lions.

On the Viking front, Kwesi outmaneuvered the Lion's brass on this move bigtime.  Helps make up for the trade down and will be immediately fruitful unlike a draft pick/s.  

It is a new regime but I'm failing to see the master plan. They're just doing what the old regime did. It's stupid enough to take a TE in the first round, let alone the top 10, but TJ has been a decent player. Nowhere near worth a top 10 pick, but at least he hasn't been a bust.  

Why make these picks if you're just going to ship them off before their 2nd contract? For picks? That they'll use on players, half of whom will bust and the other half they'll trade away before they have to pay them? Lather, rinse.... 

The GM is stockpiling picks for the next staff so he can perhaps attract a decent candidate.

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@MaroonBells said:

I think the biggest key is going to be the fact that he's very good in both the run and passing game, so there's not going to be a tendency tip off to the defense like there was when we'd switch between Irv and Mundt.

Also, I got the impression from KOC's comments that Irv, likely due to missing training camp, was still lagging behind in the new offense, specifically the routes he was supposed to run. Now, we can't expect TJH to come in and know the offense right away, but just that first part is going to help this offense, a little at first, but a lot later on. 

so he is an actual TE?  This is what I like about the deal as well.