Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
By this "approximate value" metric (value over expectation) developed by a Cowboys writer, Vikings had a top 10 draft five out of the last six years. They had a top 3 draft four out of the last six. And they had the #1 ranked draft three times. I'll say that again. The Vikings had the best draft in the NFL (by this metric anyway) 3 times in the last 6 years. And no, no other team comes anywhere close to that.
Why does this image of an uneasy Zimmer reading that come to mind...
I'm not so sure Zimmer has anything to be uneasy about... it's kind of funny how you can draw a line where our drafts sucked pre-Zimmer and got better post-Zimmer.
I think a lot of Spielman's drafting success is directly related to Zimmer's influence telling Rick and the scouting department what traits he is looking for... Rick has mentioned this before in interviews... essentially they changed their scouting process when Zimmer came in and used more analytics and other traits to identify players that would be successful in our schemes.
The other aspect that should be factored in is coaching. It's no secret that Zimmer, Patterson, and the other coaches that have been here have done a good job of making sure guys are ready to play.
You can't praise Spielman for his drafting and then slight the coach who is in charge of developing that talent on the field. If anything, I think this shows that Zimmer and Spielman have done a good job of identifying, drafting, and then developing talent.
The roster has been largely held back by our inability to find a consistent QB and some unfortunate injuries to key players.
This. Zimmer and Spielman have worked well together to identify football traits, not just athletic traits.
The other thing to consider. Other teams may draft well, but the coach sucks. If you can't teach your rookies how to adjust to the NFL, you aren't going to benefit from their talent. Zimmer is great at getting the most out of his defenders. Offense has been lacking in that, especially on the O-line. But hopefully we are getting over the hump with the offensive staff in place now.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
By this "approximate value" metric (value over expectation) developed by a Cowboys writer, Vikings had a top 10 draft five out of the last six years. They had a top 3 draft four out of the last six. And they had the #1 ranked draft three times. I'll say that again. The Vikings had the best draft in the NFL (by this metric anyway) 3 times in the last 6 years. And no, no other team comes anywhere close to that.
Why does this image of an uneasy Zimmer reading that come to mind...
I'm not so sure Zimmer has anything to be uneasy about... it's kind of funny how you can draw a line where our drafts sucked pre-Zimmer and got better post-Zimmer.
I think a lot of Spielman's drafting success is directly related to Zimmer's influence telling Rick and the scouting department what traits he is looking for... Rick has mentioned this before in interviews... essentially they changed their scouting process when Zimmer came in and used more analytics and other traits to identify players that would be successful in our schemes.
The other aspect that should be factored in is coaching. It's no secret that Zimmer, Patterson, and the other coaches that have been here have done a good job of making sure guys are ready to play.
You can't praise Spielman for his drafting and then slight the coach who is in charge of developing that talent on the field. If anything, I think this shows that Zimmer and Spielman have done a good job of identifying, drafting, and then developing talent.
The roster has been largely held back by our inability to find a consistent QB and some unfortunate injuries to key players.
All good points and the coordination and of scouting and coaching seems to be getting better over time - just like a fine dance routine among dancers.
But the other reality is that I think Zimmer was a Saints loss away from losing his job not long ago and he's on thinner ice than a lot of fans would imagine with ownership.
IMO he has underperformed vs the resources the organization has provided over the years. I wont bore everyone with his record against LaFluer and Nagy again. It's egregious.
They s hit the bed this season and I think he's gone, regardless of causal.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
By this "approximate value" metric (value over expectation) developed by a Cowboys writer, Vikings had a top 10 draft five out of the last six years. They had a top 3 draft four out of the last six. And they had the #1 ranked draft three times. I'll say that again. The Vikings had the best draft in the NFL (by this metric anyway) 3 times in the last 6 years. And no, no other team comes anywhere close to that.
Why does this image of an uneasy Zimmer reading that come to mind...
I'm not so sure Zimmer has anything to be uneasy about... it's kind of funny how you can draw a line where our drafts sucked pre-Zimmer and got better post-Zimmer.
I think a lot of Spielman's drafting success is directly related to Zimmer's influence telling Rick and the scouting department what traits he is looking for... Rick has mentioned this before in interviews... essentially they changed their scouting process when Zimmer came in and used more analytics and other traits to identify players that would be successful in our schemes.
The other aspect that should be factored in is coaching. It's no secret that Zimmer, Patterson, and the other coaches that have been here have done a good job of making sure guys are ready to play.
You can't praise Spielman for his drafting and then slight the coach who is in charge of developing that talent on the field. If anything, I think this shows that Zimmer and Spielman have done a good job of identifying, drafting, and then developing talent.
The roster has been largely held back by our inability to find a consistent QB and some unfortunate injuries to key players.
This. Zimmer and Spielman have worked well together to identify football traits, not just athletic traits.
The other thing to consider. Other teams may draft well, but the coach sucks. If you can't teach your rookies how to adjust to the NFL, you aren't going to benefit from their talent. Zimmer is great at getting the most out of his defenders. Offense has been lacking in that, especially on the O-line. But hopefully we are getting over the hump with the offensive staff in place now.
Wait: we are going to declare the Vikings to have the best draft history of the past decade ("no other team comes anywhere close") - but average only 9 wins per season and miss the playoffs 4 of 7 years, and the head coach is blameless??
"Zimmer is great at getting the most out of his defenders." Out of Eric Kendricks and Danielle Hunter? Sure, two big successes. Anthony Barr? Mmmmaybe. How about Trae Waynes and Mac Alexander? Now I'm getting dubious that their talent was turned into "the most" in their time here.
But look at all the defensive players picked after the first 2 rounds but declared to be great talents for Zimmer and staff to develop: Josh Robinson, Gerald Hodges, Robert Blanton, Scott Crichton, Antone Exum, Shamar Stephen, Jayron Kearse, Stephen Weatherly, Kentrell Brothers, Jaleel Johnson, Ben Gedeon, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Jalyn Holmes, (And I'm not including 2019-20 picks or players like Ade Aruna who never saw the field.) Some were later picks - but that's our strategy, to collect lots of late picks and develop them, right? Even half this list was picked in rounds 3-4. I see only 2 players, Stephen and Odenigbo, who are just competent backups, nothing more.
"Offense has been lacking" - you got that right. I sometimes wonder if guys like TJ Clemmings and Dru Samia were actually bad picks or were ruined by our coaches.
When I look at our great draft successes of this era - Hunter, Kendricks, Smith, Barr, Cook, Diggs, Jefferson, O'Neill - I see guys who were ready to play as rookies. I don't see any who blossomed after a couple years of grooming; even some of those were held on the bench too long. Thielen, Harris, Wilson (not draftees) also took too long to get on the field.
I've questioned the effectiveness of our roster building and been told many times how well Spielman drafts. OK then: our team is mired in mediocre results and our lack of depth is exposed far too often. If Spielman is bringing in great raw material, drafting better than anyone else in the NFL...who is at fault here? Gotta be someone.
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