Now reading a article saying Warford is looking for about the same money he was supposed to get this year from the Saints - around 7 or 8 million. We have 12.3 Cap space according to Spotrac. We need some for rookies of course and maybe another later addition. I would look at Warford in that range and if we can make it happen I would cut Elf and save 2 million.
side note: Joe Kline cost us 5.7 million last year and we took a 2.6 million dead cap by cutting him. Warford, if signed in the 7.5 range would put him around the 17/18 highest paid G for 2020.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ minny65 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Skodin said:
Been in love with Collins when he got the extra reps in the Miracle DR game. He did well in a huge spot, showed flexibility, speed, versatitliy to go with his size and speed.
Collins, Udoh, Samia, Dozier, 2 of these will win the starting G spots. My money is on Collins and Udoh, they present solid technique with great size. If we make no moves for Warford. I know it’s risky but 2020 line should be:
Cleveland-Collins-Bradberry-Udoh-ONeil with Dozier, Samia, Hill, Jones, Elf on the bench
I think that line has a huge amount of potential. And if you go with that this year, think about what you're going to have next year. Gonna be hard to keep Samia out of the lineup though. Isn't Udoh a Tackle? He was in college but did we move him and practice him at Guard?
Also, relying on the oft-injured Collins scares the crap out of me. I see the talent but I would want a whole season of health as a Guard backup before I think we can count on him. So in my mind we still need a starting Guard and that assumes (like most on here do) that Samia after 2 game appearances is plugged in as the other starter.
Udoh was a tackle in college. Doesn't mean that's where he's going to play for the Vikings. Yeah, I think it's more likely he stays at tackle, but the Vikings will put him where they need him.
There seems to be this resistance on the board to move college tackles to guard in the NFL. Maybe because of Remmers? But that was a different thing. Remmers was already an established player at tackle. Vikings should've known better. But young players move all the time, on every team, every year.
All three of the NFC Pro Bowl guards (Martin, Scherff, Brooks) were tackles in college. Two on the AFC side (Yanda and Bitonio). Kelechi Osemele, a player very similar to Udoh, started at tackle for the Ravens, but moved to guard. In his first season at guard, he ranked 4th in pass pro and 6th in run blocking. His coaches that year? Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison. So we'll see...
Personally, I think if the Vikings decide to put Udoh in the mix at guard, he'll compete with Collins at left guard, with RG Samia's to lose. And don't forget, LG could still be Riley Reiff or Ezra Cleveland. Hell, it could still be Elflein, though him improving his pass blocking enough to start seems incredibly unlikely. Anyway, there are a lot of possibilities there.
i dont see a resistance to the idea, the resistance is to the notion that you should pencil them in as starters which so many seem to want to do in order to "cut" somebody that they have a hard on for.
There's no penciling, only speculating. It is as Spielman said, "an open competition" at both spots.
the resistance only comes as fans lay out their starting lineman in the offseason, hell some dont even name a player, just "2nd round rookie" when they are talking who should start. I dont think its a big issue in most years for a vet to kick inside or even a rookie, but in a year with greatly reduced practice reps its a big gamble to assume that somebody is going to make a position change and be able to play it at a competent professional level. Nitpicky on my part but Martin, Scherff and Brooks were all projected at Guard coming into the NFL by most draft analyst and that is where they played from the start. But that has nothing to do with my main concern at Guard.
Udoh has very long arms (longer then O'Neill at RT) and has been listed and practiced at Tackle with the Vikings. Anything is possible, of course, but the main theme of all my posts is that we are making too many assumptions/guesses and hopeful thinking for my taste....again my opinion only. I'll repeat my point again, Collins has proven so injury prone I can't count on him as a starter, Udoh is a Tackle, Samia is a second year guy who appeared in 2 games and had some good snaps and some bad snaps vs the Bears finale. We need 2 starting Guards out of our mix. I don't have much hope for Elf or at least I hope someone can beat him out because he was awful. I am not for moving Reiff to guard (age for switch and would cut and save 8 million for a real Guard) or starting Cleveland at Guard for developmental reasons (unless training camp/preseason indicates that he is not a Tackle and we focus him at Guard from day 1 like with Martin, Scherff and Brooks above.
Overall, I have major concern that we are not improving our interior OL (2 Guards) at all heading into 2020. I didn't even mention Bradbury who was barely average at C and we all expect a big jump-up...again more hope/assumptions. Too many stars need to align for my liking. I would pounce on a guy like Warford and nail down one Guard position and then hope that the other G position is filled by the mix we all mention above.
Andrus Peat and Kelechi Osemele are examples of tackles who projected as tackles, played tackle in the NFL, and then were moved to guard, so there are examples.
Oli Udoh is just a baby in the NFL. There would be no concern about moving him to guard, but I agree with you. As I said before, it's a helluva waste of arm length. Still, all options are on the table because there are a LOT of unknowns at the moment. I think the question that determines where Udoh lines up is with Reiff and Cleveland. If both stay at tackle, then Udoh probably competes at guard. But if either move to guard, then Udoh probably stays at tackle.
A lot of this also depends on how Udoh plays. He might need another year or two before he's ready. He might be ready this year. All unknowns. But we (presumably) already have our tackles of the future in Cleveland and O'Neill. If they believe he has a bright future as a starter, then that's probably going to be at guard and they may just put him there now.
I think the biggest part of all of this isnt about who is or isnt on the roster, its about how soon they are able to get back to team workouts and drills. if the NFL doesnt let teams get back to group work until July that might squash a lot of rookies seasons and force teams to run with veterans at their normal positions.
Yep a majorily truncated offseason could very well see vets getting the nod early and how many NEW quality players will get the boot to ps or cut because of lack of exposure. Hoping the league is looking into roster expansion exceptions for this year.
When have any of our backups, including Collins, gotten a real chance at the starting left guard position since they moved Elf there? Even Jones significantly outplayed him last preseason. I don't have any faith that this staff will come to their senses and move on from Elf who they should have cut and kept Klein instead.
Quote: @TBro said:
When have any of our backups, including Collins, gotten a real chance at the starting left guard position since they moved Elf there? Even Jones significantly outplayed him last preseason. I don't have any faith that this staff will come to their senses and move on from Elf who they should have cut and kept Klein instead.
Ive personally never been really impressed with Jones either and I dont think we have seen enough of him to say if he has or hasnt outplayed elf.
Quote: @minny65 said:
Now reading a article saying Warford is looking for about the same money he was supposed to get this year from the Saints - around 7 or 8 million. We have 12.3 Cap space according to Spotrac. We need some for rookies of course and maybe another later addition. I would look at Warford in that range and if we can make it happen I would cut Elf and save 2 million.
side note: Joe Kline cost us 5.7 million last year and we took a 2.6 million dead cap by cutting him. Warford, if signed in the 7.5 range would put him around the 17/18 highest paid G for 2020.
Warford is only 27? 28? Pro-bowl material...
That said, I believe the Vikings think they have enough promising material @ OG on the roster today. Their focus will be on Cook next and figuring out what to do longer-term with the Safeties...
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ minny65 said:
Now reading a article saying Warford is looking for about the same money he was supposed to get this year from the Saints - around 7 or 8 million. We have 12.3 Cap space according to Spotrac. We need some for rookies of course and maybe another later addition. I would look at Warford in that range and if we can make it happen I would cut Elf and save 2 million.
side note: Joe Kline cost us 5.7 million last year and we took a 2.6 million dead cap by cutting him. Warford, if signed in the 7.5 range would put him around the 17/18 highest paid G for 2020.
Warford is only 27? 28? Pro-bowl material...
That said, I believe the Vikings think they have enough promising material @ OG on the roster today. Their focus will be on Cook next and figuring out what to do longer-term with the Safeties...
I think that's right. Vikings will have either Reiff, Cleveland, Elflein or Collins at LG. At RG, they obviously like Samia, but Dozier and Udoh could factor in there. And I think it's still possible that the Vikings move O'Neill to LT, Reiff to LG and Cleveland to RT. There's a lot of options with some very high upside players. I like our line in '20. I love it in '21.
I’d be surprised if we could get Warford that cheap, but strange things do happen.
I think Reiff is a bit underestimated by fans and see him as our starting LT next season. I love the Cleveland pick and with his athleticism, I think he’s the future. However, it’s wicked tough to start as a rookie at the LT position. Reiff is a solid, albeit average LT, who could use some serious competition like the rookie can bring.
What I would not do is cut Reiff. In my opinion, it’s too big of a risk this year with so much youth.
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