Anthony Barr Predictions

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:
They'll make the decision at the combine and it will come down to two separate things. 

1. Can they resign Sheldon Richardson? If the answer is yes I believe they'd be best served going down that route. That move basically assures Barr will hit unrestricted free agency and leave MN. 

2. If they cannot lock up Sheldon I'd at least expect them to attempt tagging & trading Barr. The $15M price tag is palatable for a team willing to play him at the LOS. In that scenario the tag wouldn't prohibit an extension. The reason the Richardson extension comes into play is that you'd need the $15M in cap space to facilitate the tag & trade. This also gives the Vikings "some" control over where he goes and at least makes sure he's out of the NFCN.

3. The only reason I include three at all is because I don't think the Vikings would turn down an extension if it was in the ballpark of $12M/yr. However for that to happen Barr would need to come down a ways. 

And what do you think they are going to get in return in this tag/trade scenario?

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@Jor-El said:

@MarkSP18 said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:
They'll make the decision at the combine and it will come down to two separate things. 

1. Can they resign Sheldon Richardson? If the answer is yes I believe they'd be best served going down that route. That move basically assures Barr will hit unrestricted free agency and leave MN. 

2. If they cannot lock up Sheldon I'd at least expect them to attempt tagging & trading Barr. The $15M price tag is palatable for a team willing to play him at the LOS. In that scenario the tag wouldn't prohibit an extension. The reason the Richardson extension comes into play is that you'd need the $15M in cap space to facilitate the tag & trade. This also gives the Vikings "some" control over where he goes and at least makes sure he's out of the NFCN.

3. The only reason I include three at all is because I don't think the Vikings would turn down an extension if it was in the ballpark of $12M/yr. However for that to happen Barr would need to come down a ways. 

How can the Vikings tag Barr?  I know they can tag him now but when the new league year begins they need to have that 15 mil in cap space.  They cant start the new league year under the cap if I am not mistaken.
So that would mean some other people would get cut.  Which players would get cut and which would agree to a restructure?  I know people often talk about restructures but the players have to agree.
I think it would be one of the most stupidest decisions this front office has made and they have made some dumb ones.  Letting Allen get his last year without any desire to extend him beyond that year and with Griffen waiting in the wings.  Letting Kalil get his last year even though he was nowhere near worth 11 mil.  Using the #62 & #93 picks to move up for Toby Gerhart after AP just finished an 1800 plus yard season.  The list goes on.
Barr and his agent could decide to not sign the tag which would severely limit the Vikings in free agency since they will not have much cap space if they use up 15 mil on Barr.
Lastly, and more importantly, when did Barr become worthy of a top 3-4 OLB contract?  What team is going to pay him 15 mil when he has zero seasons proving that he is able to play that roles at a high level?  I keep reading stuff like this and it is totally perplexing to me.
If I am a GM, I definitely would NOT pay Barr 15 mil to be a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE when he has never had more than 4 sacks.  No freaking way.

They could:
1. Waive Everson Griffen.
2. Take the ~$10.5M saved, and maybe a bit more, and put it on the table. Bring Barr into the room, offer him a contract AND a promise that he will get 25% of his snaps rushing from DE. He might also need a contract clause that gives him the chance to opt out in a year or two if he isn't happy with the way he is actually used.
This keeps one of Zimmer's favorite players, and lets Barr stay where he is comfortable but also lets him do what he thinks will let him make a bigger impact: rush the passer. We also use Barr to add a little "juice" to the rush Weatherly provides as Griffen's replacement.
As for where you find the space if it takes more like $12M/year to keep Barr, there is $5.5M allocated to Andrew Sendejo with zero dead cap. Maybe we use a couple million of that to keep Anthony Harris, but there should be enough to cover Barr. I think the Vikes will also ask Mike Remmers and Kyle Rudolph to restructure their deals, but earmark that for an offensive lineman in free agency.
And, MarkSP18, I am in agreement with you about some past stupid decisions by this organization, and I'm not saying this much effort to keep Barr is what I would do. But I think Zimmer considers him a keystone for his defense, and has not groomed enough depth at LB to feel comfortable losing him.

I don't think the Vikings would ever go above $12M/yr for Barr. Carrying two high priced LB's isn't very sustainable in a 4-3 defense. The only way you could begin to make the case is if you were going to remove Everson from the equation and play Barr at the LOS on pure pass rushing downs. Even then its questionable. 

The only way Barr would get a contract  >$12M/yr from the Vikings is if it included funny money he'd never actually see or is highly incentive laden to ensure the team is paying for an elite pass rusher vs. above-average off the ball LB.  

[Guest]

@jargomcfargo said:
Just a hunch, but I think Barr's high asking price is an indication he would rather play elsewhere. It takes two to tango and I suspect he won't be motivated to take a home town discount. Not based on fact. Just a feeling.

He might give a hometown discount. However his hometown is LA. I see him wanting to go to one of the Cali teams.

[Guest]

@Jor-El said:

@jargomcfargo said:
Just a hunch, but I think Barr's high asking price is an indication he would rather play elsewhere. It takes two to tango and I suspect he won't be motivated to take a home town discount. Not based on fact. Just a feeling.

Mix in his remarks about wishing he could rush the passer more.
He's an odd case because most people consider him best suited to a 3-4. It's almost like a player who gets drafted, then the coaching staff changes and he doesn't fit the new scheme. A guy like that leaves in FA and the team doesn't make a fuss.
But we didn't change schemes. Our head coach was given heavy influence to use the 9th overall pick to select a cornerstone for his defense, and he picked Barr. Think about that: Zimmer could have had Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, CJ Mosely, Kyle Fuller, Dee Ford, or DeMarcus Lawrence - but he wanted Barr more.
I'm not denying the reasoning behind anyone saying it makes sense to let Barr go. I just don't believe Zimmer will put up with that happening.

That's a hindsight list other than Donald. Nobody had most of those guys rated ahead of Barr pre-draft 

I think there's a deeper layer to the pick that we saw again with the Waynes selection. And that is a former long time DC gets to pick who he wants to develop instead of getting what Marvin Lewis, another guy that was a DC for a long time, and the GM gave him.

Now I'm not saying Zimmer didn't have input. But if the GM and Lewis wanted an Offensive Player in Round 1 there wasn't a thing Mike could do if he saw a freak athlete to mold that would be gone by the 2nd.

Or perhaps the GM and Lewis agreed that the BPA for need was a defender but had a different grade on Player X than Zimmer did.

Now you're finally am HC and you've got a GM who is staking his job on hiring you. You tell him you can rebuild the Defense fast but need to latitude to take some rawer freak athletes that might have lower floors than a safer pick.

The D-Line looks good, you've got an evolving CB and a weapon in Harry Smith so go get your Vontaze Burfict. But with more athleticism and less dirty player. And low and behold there sits uber athlete Barr. Rinse and repeat with Waynes.

But the NFL is changing and Barr can't cover the upper echelon RBs or TEs. And your Frankenstein Linebacker wants to be paid like a Dee Ford type player.

It makes sense to me that Zimmer would like to keep Barr but not break the bank for him and told Rick exactly that. If he walks Mike can now go all Mad Scientist and find a hybrid Safety/LB with the attributes to become a great cover guy that can still blitz and stop the run.

Thankfully, I don't see an obvious candidate for that role in the 1st Round. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if he picked one or even 2 really raw athletes in the middle rounds to mold into Barr's successor.

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@Jor-El said:

@MarkSP18 said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:
They'll make the decision at the combine and it will come down to two separate things. 

1. Can they resign Sheldon Richardson? If the answer is yes I believe they'd be best served going down that route. That move basically assures Barr will hit unrestricted free agency and leave MN. 

2. If they cannot lock up Sheldon I'd at least expect them to attempt tagging & trading Barr. The $15M price tag is palatable for a team willing to play him at the LOS. In that scenario the tag wouldn't prohibit an extension. The reason the Richardson extension comes into play is that you'd need the $15M in cap space to facilitate the tag & trade. This also gives the Vikings "some" control over where he goes and at least makes sure he's out of the NFCN.

3. The only reason I include three at all is because I don't think the Vikings would turn down an extension if it was in the ballpark of $12M/yr. However for that to happen Barr would need to come down a ways. 

How can the Vikings tag Barr?  I know they can tag him now but when the new league year begins they need to have that 15 mil in cap space.  They cant start the new league year under the cap if I am not mistaken.
So that would mean some other people would get cut.  Which players would get cut and which would agree to a restructure?  I know people often talk about restructures but the players have to agree.
I think it would be one of the most stupidest decisions this front office has made and they have made some dumb ones.  Letting Allen get his last year without any desire to extend him beyond that year and with Griffen waiting in the wings.  Letting Kalil get his last year even though he was nowhere near worth 11 mil.  Using the #62 & #93 picks to move up for Toby Gerhart after AP just finished an 1800 plus yard season.  The list goes on.
Barr and his agent could decide to not sign the tag which would severely limit the Vikings in free agency since they will not have much cap space if they use up 15 mil on Barr.
Lastly, and more importantly, when did Barr become worthy of a top 3-4 OLB contract?  What team is going to pay him 15 mil when he has zero seasons proving that he is able to play that roles at a high level?  I keep reading stuff like this and it is totally perplexing to me.
If I am a GM, I definitely would NOT pay Barr 15 mil to be a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE when he has never had more than 4 sacks.  No freaking way.

They could:
1. Waive Everson Griffen.
2. Take the ~$10.5M saved, and maybe a bit more, and put it on the table. Bring Barr into the room, offer him a contract AND a promise that he will get 25% of his snaps rushing from DE. He might also need a contract clause that gives him the chance to opt out in a year or two if he isn't happy with the way he is actually used.
This keeps one of Zimmer's favorite players, and lets Barr stay where he is comfortable but also lets him do what he thinks will let him make a bigger impact: rush the passer. We also use Barr to add a little "juice" to the rush Weatherly provides as Griffen's replacement.
As for where you find the space if it takes more like $12M/year to keep Barr, there is $5.5M allocated to Andrew Sendejo with zero dead cap. Maybe we use a couple million of that to keep Anthony Harris, but there should be enough to cover Barr. I think the Vikes will also ask Mike Remmers and Kyle Rudolph to restructure their deals, but earmark that for an offensive lineman in free agency.
And, MarkSP18, I am in agreement with you about some past stupid decisions by this organization, and I'm not saying this much effort to keep Barr is what I would do. But I think Zimmer considers him a keystone for his defense, and has not groomed enough depth at LB to feel comfortable losing him.

I don't think the Vikings would ever go above $12M/yr for Barr. Carrying two high priced LB's isn't very sustainable in a 4-3 defense. The only way you could begin to make the case is if you were going to remove Everson from the equation and play Barr at the LOS on pure pass rushing downs. Even then its questionable. 

The only way Barr would get a contract  >$12M/yr from the Vikings is if it included funny money he'd never actually see or is highly incentive laden to ensure the team is paying for an elite pass rusher vs. above-average off the ball LB.  

So then Barr is probably out of here regardless of what happens with Sheldon...

Who'd we have playing DT when we passed on Aaron Donald in 2014 lol! 

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@purplefaithful said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@Jor-El said:

@MarkSP18 said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:
They'll make the decision at the combine and it will come down to two separate things. 

1. Can they resign Sheldon Richardson? If the answer is yes I believe they'd be best served going down that route. That move basically assures Barr will hit unrestricted free agency and leave MN. 

2. If they cannot lock up Sheldon I'd at least expect them to attempt tagging & trading Barr. The $15M price tag is palatable for a team willing to play him at the LOS. In that scenario the tag wouldn't prohibit an extension. The reason the Richardson extension comes into play is that you'd need the $15M in cap space to facilitate the tag & trade. This also gives the Vikings "some" control over where he goes and at least makes sure he's out of the NFCN.

3. The only reason I include three at all is because I don't think the Vikings would turn down an extension if it was in the ballpark of $12M/yr. However for that to happen Barr would need to come down a ways. 

How can the Vikings tag Barr?  I know they can tag him now but when the new league year begins they need to have that 15 mil in cap space.  They cant start the new league year under the cap if I am not mistaken.
So that would mean some other people would get cut.  Which players would get cut and which would agree to a restructure?  I know people often talk about restructures but the players have to agree.
I think it would be one of the most stupidest decisions this front office has made and they have made some dumb ones.  Letting Allen get his last year without any desire to extend him beyond that year and with Griffen waiting in the wings.  Letting Kalil get his last year even though he was nowhere near worth 11 mil.  Using the #62 & #93 picks to move up for Toby Gerhart after AP just finished an 1800 plus yard season.  The list goes on.
Barr and his agent could decide to not sign the tag which would severely limit the Vikings in free agency since they will not have much cap space if they use up 15 mil on Barr.
Lastly, and more importantly, when did Barr become worthy of a top 3-4 OLB contract?  What team is going to pay him 15 mil when he has zero seasons proving that he is able to play that roles at a high level?  I keep reading stuff like this and it is totally perplexing to me.
If I am a GM, I definitely would NOT pay Barr 15 mil to be a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE when he has never had more than 4 sacks.  No freaking way.

They could:
1. Waive Everson Griffen.
2. Take the ~$10.5M saved, and maybe a bit more, and put it on the table. Bring Barr into the room, offer him a contract AND a promise that he will get 25% of his snaps rushing from DE. He might also need a contract clause that gives him the chance to opt out in a year or two if he isn't happy with the way he is actually used.
This keeps one of Zimmer's favorite players, and lets Barr stay where he is comfortable but also lets him do what he thinks will let him make a bigger impact: rush the passer. We also use Barr to add a little "juice" to the rush Weatherly provides as Griffen's replacement.
As for where you find the space if it takes more like $12M/year to keep Barr, there is $5.5M allocated to Andrew Sendejo with zero dead cap. Maybe we use a couple million of that to keep Anthony Harris, but there should be enough to cover Barr. I think the Vikes will also ask Mike Remmers and Kyle Rudolph to restructure their deals, but earmark that for an offensive lineman in free agency.
And, MarkSP18, I am in agreement with you about some past stupid decisions by this organization, and I'm not saying this much effort to keep Barr is what I would do. But I think Zimmer considers him a keystone for his defense, and has not groomed enough depth at LB to feel comfortable losing him.

I don't think the Vikings would ever go above $12M/yr for Barr. Carrying two high priced LB's isn't very sustainable in a 4-3 defense. The only way you could begin to make the case is if you were going to remove Everson from the equation and play Barr at the LOS on pure pass rushing downs. Even then its questionable. 

The only way Barr would get a contract  >$12M/yr from the Vikings is if it included funny money he'd never actually see or is highly incentive laden to ensure the team is paying for an elite pass rusher vs. above-average off the ball LB.  

So then Barr is probably out of here regardless of what happens with Sheldon...

Who'd we have playing DT when we passed on Aaron Donald in 2014 lol! 

Floyd before the injury issues creeped up on him. Otherwise you'd have to think they would have Donald on the roster right now.