Quote: @Akvike said:
Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense. See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.
We threw out Fazier when his D kept losing games. We threw out Childress when his KAO kept losing games. For our current squads, they have the advantage that they also have won us games. When's the last time the ST won us a game? I can't remember the last time my expectation level for ST was anything more than, "Please don't screw the pooch this time." But there have been plenty of games they've done just that.
Them were humongous errors costing multiple losses in A SEASON---you quote a loss could be attributed to the special teams( not multiple head slappers that it took to roust those morphadites.)
Quote: @Scoog said:
@ Akvike said:
Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense. See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.
We threw out Fazier when his D kept losing games. We threw out Childress when his KAO kept losing games. For our current squads, they have the advantage that they also have won us games. When's the last time the ST won us a game? I can't remember the last time my expectation level for ST was anything more than, "Please don't screw the pooch this time." But there have been plenty of games they've done just that.
with special teams its maybe not what they are doing to win games, its what they arent doing to lose them. not brining the ball out at stupid times, not muffing punt returns, not blocking in the back giving away valuable field position. not missing kicks or punts is part of this and its the part that is lacking, but Priefer does get a fair amount of accolades for his return and coverage schemes and that certainly is worth something in a game of inches.
Quote: @Scoog said:
@ Akvike said:
Ya got 3 phases to a game over the the course of a year any one of those can cost ya a game---should we throw out the defense after every loss or the the offense. See it's easy to call out one aspect---doesn't make it correct though.
We threw out Fazier when his D kept losing games. We threw out Childress when his KAO kept losing games. For our current squads, they have the advantage that they also have won us games. When's the last time the ST won us a game? I can't remember the last time my expectation level for ST was anything more than, "Please don't screw the pooch this time." But there have been plenty of games they've done just that.
You mean like the 2 blocked punts against Carolina? All of Sherel's punt return TDs? CPs kick returns? Causing turnovers on punt returns? Sendejo and Thielen on huge runs on fake punts? Hughes defending the fake punt by the Rams? I remember quite a few in Priefer's tenure here.
From his Vikings.com bio
Priefer’s special teams units are known for creating big-play
opportunities. Since entering the NFL, Priefer has seen his units
account for 26 scores (12 KOR, 9 PR, 3 blocked punts, 1 botched fake FG
and 1 safety). He has also seen his squads block 23 kicks (9 punts, 9
FGs, 5 PATs) since 2002. Since Priefer joined the Vikings in 2011,
Minnesota leads the NFL for the most special teams TDs with 14 (7 KOR, 5
PR and 2 blocked punts) over that 7-year span.
Now let's look at the specifics on the debit side of the ledger for Priefer.
2 negative draft picks in Carlson and Locke - we could have signed better FA than those 2. Not every 5th round pick can turn into a Diggs, but it'd be nice to try.
Inability to pull Walsh out of his funk
2018 - Tie with GB due to a blocked punt and 3 missed FGs2016 - Lost to Dallas by 2 after a fumbled PR on our 8 is turned into a TD2016 - Lost to Detroit in OT. In regulation, we had a blocked FG returned 32 yards. 8 yards of offense later, their ST completes the 6 pt turnaround2015 - Post-season ends with a missed 27 yard FG2015- Lost to Denver by 3 in a game that included a missed 38 yard FG2013 - Lost to Baltimore by 3 in a game that included a 77 yard KR by Balt2013 -Lost by 4 to Cleveland after giving up a TD on a fake FG2011- Such a trainwreck of a season, it's insanity to lay any one loss on a particular squad.
This should not be taken as a complete list of every time the ST underperformed. Rather it's the cases where the game was otherwise close and a ST blunder caused enough of a point change to make a difference. It ignores things like the Buffalo game where a ST blunder put us on our own 7 right when we needed to kill Buffalo's momentum or games where other squads either covered for the ST blunder or were bad enough themselves that any ST errors weren't so glaring.
And yes, it does come out to about once a season ST puts us into a bad hole in a close game that likely cost us the win or tie.
Quote: @Scoog said:
Now let's look at the specifics on the debit side of the ledger for Priefer.
2 negative draft picks in Carlson and Locke - we could have signed better FA than those 2. Not every 5th round pick can turn into a Diggs, but it'd be nice to try.
Inability to pull Walsh out of his funk
2018 - Tie with GB due to a blocked punt and 3 missed FGs2016 - Lost to Dallas by 2 after a fumbled PR on our 8 is turned into a TD2016 - Lost to Detroit in OT. In regulation, we had a blocked FG returned 32 yards. 8 yards of offense later, their ST completes the 6 pt turnaround2015 - Post-season ends with a missed 27 yard FG2015- Lost to Denver by 3 in a game that included a missed 38 yard FG2013 - Lost to Baltimore by 3 in a game that included a 77 yard KR by Balt2013 -Lost by 4 to Cleveland after giving up a TD on a fake FG2011- Such a trainwreck of a season, it's insanity to lay any one loss on a particular squad.
This should not be taken as a complete list of every time the ST underperformed. Rather it's the cases where the game was otherwise close and a ST blunder caused enough of a point change to make a difference. It ignores things like the Buffalo game where a ST blunder put us on our own 7 right when we needed to kill Buffalo's momentum or games where other squads either covered for the ST blunder or were bad enough themselves that any ST errors weren't so glaring.
And yes, it does come out to about once a season ST puts us into a bad hole in a close game that likely cost us the win or tie.
You understand that no unit of the team is more influenced by the salary cap than special teams? Spielman has to make tough decisions, one of those was rolling the dice on Daniel Carlson. Pfeifer wasn't pounding the desk for the guy, I'm sure he would have loved to keep Forbath. Same thing but even more so with punters: Spielman thought he saw value and went there, Pfeifer wasn't advocating for taking Locke, I guarantee you. Was he asked what he thought about him? Of course. But pulling the trigger on kickers and punters is Spielman and working the cap.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ Scoog said:
Now let's look at the specifics on the debit side of the ledger for Priefer.
2 negative draft picks in Carlson and Locke - we could have signed better FA than those 2. Not every 5th round pick can turn into a Diggs, but it'd be nice to try.
Inability to pull Walsh out of his funk
2018 - Tie with GB due to a blocked punt and 3 missed FGs2016 - Lost to Dallas by 2 after a fumbled PR on our 8 is turned into a TD2016 - Lost to Detroit in OT. In regulation, we had a blocked FG returned 32 yards. 8 yards of offense later, their ST completes the 6 pt turnaround2015 - Post-season ends with a missed 27 yard FG2015- Lost to Denver by 3 in a game that included a missed 38 yard FG2013 - Lost to Baltimore by 3 in a game that included a 77 yard KR by Balt2013 -Lost by 4 to Cleveland after giving up a TD on a fake FG2011- Such a trainwreck of a season, it's insanity to lay any one loss on a particular squad.
This should not be taken as a complete list of every time the ST underperformed. Rather it's the cases where the game was otherwise close and a ST blunder caused enough of a point change to make a difference. It ignores things like the Buffalo game where a ST blunder put us on our own 7 right when we needed to kill Buffalo's momentum or games where other squads either covered for the ST blunder or were bad enough themselves that any ST errors weren't so glaring.
And yes, it does come out to about once a season ST puts us into a bad hole in a close game that likely cost us the win or tie.
You understand that no unit of the team is more influenced by the salary cap than special teams? Spielman has to make tough decisions, one of those was rolling the dice on Daniel Carlson. Pfeifer wasn't pounding the desk for the guy, I'm sure he would have loved to keep Forbath. Same thing but even more so with punters: Spielman thought he saw value and went there, Pfeifer wasn't advocating for taking Locke, I guarantee you. Was he asked what he thought about him? Of course. But pulling the trigger on kickers and punters is Spielman and working the cap.
Not to mention what he has to work with on his coverage and return teams. Lots of high dollar guys on this team that don't get run out for special teams on a regular basis, that doesn't leave much cap for experienced veteran reserves so what Priefer often gets to work with are a bunch of rookie contract guys with some bottom of the barrel vets that are signed on the cheap. His one decent contract veteran ST "ace" hasn't played a down this year.
I agree, i honestly doubt Priefer has much pull on draft day unless Rick is hell bent on taking a P, or K and then he gets to throw in his 2 cents.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Probably time to admit something truly bizarre thats been happening around the League this year: there are more bona fide Franchise QBs than reliable Kickers.
Now this is funny stuff...
There was a time Priefer's name was being bandied about as HC material...The bloom is off the rose, not sure it's all his fault with the roster decisions the last few years.
The front office has had to retain some big talent - and ST's has suffered imo because of it.
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