KAM....just take the deal, dude....

[MAD GAINZ]

Yes, the 2023 draft is the only one in question. You have to remember that a good third of that first round were busts or close to it (see their names in a previous post). So just the fact that neither of our first two picks could be considered busts probably puts our draft in the middle at the very least. And the fact that Addison, the 4th receiver taken in a run of 4 receivers, had 10 TDs and had a better year than any of the other 1st round receivers, solidifies that. That, combined with Blackmon, who was the 18th DB taken, but finished with the 3rd highest PFF grade among all DBs from that draft, pushes it up even further. 

Top 10 in one review. Top 8 in another. And one of only three teams to receive an A+ on the third one. You're welcome to consider it a bad draft, but that's just a lack of context. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1010...ie-seasons
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranki...ck-top-10/
https://mysticsandstatistics.com/2023-nf...ear-later/

---

Why?

The 2023 draft that netted one starter from our picks and a starter from an UDFA...  after two seasons, we cut Jaren Hall, Jacquelin Roy, and McBride.  That's half the draft class that couldn't stick past two seasons.

That's an A+?  

I'd say it was above average considering where our picks were, but it wasn't a great draft class unless you count Hockenson in it since we gave up our 2nd a had a pick swap in there.

[JustInTime]

Which brings me back full circle to..if you know that's a weak spot for your inexperienced GM, could you really not do any better than bringing in Ryan Grigson to be his right hand man and veteran "voice of reason" in the draft room? That guy was hot dog shit in Indy and got canned in 4 years despite starting his tenure there having stumbled upon the number #1 overall pick that became Andrew Luck. Bjorn Werner, Phillip Dorsett, Trent Richardson trade..and the list goes on. My mind is still blown that this guy has a seat at our table when it comes to drafting and evaluating college talent.

That’s a solid point. I wonder if the problem isn’t deeper in both locations because Richardson is looking like a massive bust, and other than Jonathan Taylor their other premium picks are pretty nondescript. 

There’s so many factors at play. Does the scouting department suck? Or is the scouting department competent but once all the scouting reports get turned over to the coaches and decision makers it all goes to shit. 

What football needs is a Moneyball type shakeup to the thinking process. The current process isn’t much better than it was 30 years ago. Analytics to date hasn’t produced any sort of quantum shift in success. AI? It’s still a male dominated industry so maybe more women? If I’m spending millions yearly and seeing no better results than a coin flip in the first round I am going to think outside the box.

[JimmyinSD]

That’s a solid point. I wonder if the problem isn’t deeper in both locations because Richardson is looking like a massive bust, and other than Jonathan Taylor their other premium picks are pretty nondescript. 

There’s so many factors at play. Does the scouting department suck? Or is the scouting department competent but once all the scouting reports get turned over to the coaches and decision makers it all goes to shit. 

What football needs is a Moneyball type shakeup to the thinking process. The current process isn’t much better than it was 30 years ago. Analytics to date hasn’t produced any sort of quantum shift in success. AI? It’s still a male dominated industry so maybe more women? If I’m spending millions yearly and seeing no better results than a coin flip in the first round I am going to think outside the box.

AI could make this scary boring.

[MaroonBells]

The 2023 draft that netted one starter from our picks and a starter from an UDFA...  after two seasons, we cut Jaren Hall, Jacquelin Roy, and McBride.  That's half the draft class that couldn't stick past two seasons.

That's an A+?  

I'd say it was above average considering where our picks were, but it wasn't a great draft class unless you count Hockenson in it since we gave up our 2nd a had a pick swap in there.

I didn’t give it an A+. That was the grade given to our draft by a site who compared our draft with the rest of the NFL after one year. Again, context.

I’d probably give it a B+. Addison is the biggest reason for the high grade. In every redraft I’ve seen, he goes higher than where we picked him. He had 1,000 yards and 10 TDs. Getting that kind of return on the 23rd pick in the draft is not common. You might think it is, but it’s not. Treadwell was a 23rd pick. Sharrif Floyd was a 23rd pick.

What grade would you give our 2020 draft? We had 15 picks in that draft. 15!! Only Jefferson and Brandel are still with the team. Context. What grade would give our 2021 draft? We had 11 picks. Only Christian Darrisaw is still with the team. 1 out of 11. Context. Now do the rest of the NFL and you'll start to see what I'm talking about. 

But the 2023 draft also includes Blackmon, who had a pretty solid rookie season, starting 3 games and finishing with the 3rd highest PFF grade among all defensive rookies. He has more to prove after he missed last season, but that’s a solid rookie return for a player who was taken with the last pick in the 3rd round, which hits at about an 8-10% rate. And no, I don't consider him a hit yet, but the early signs are good. He's the only player from that draft (with a minimum of 400 snaps) who didn't miss a tackle. Context. 

We didn’t get much return from rounds 4-7. But as you know, or at least SHOULD know, that’s not unusual.

[MAD GAINZ]

I didn’t give it an A+. That was the grade given to our draft by a site who compared our draft with the rest of the NFL after one year. Again, context.

I’d probably give it a B+. Addison is the biggest reason for the high grade. In every redraft I’ve seen, he goes higher than where we picked him. He had 1,000 yards and 10 TDs. Getting that kind of return on the 23rd pick in the draft is not common. You might think it is, but it’s not. Treadwell was a 23rd pick. Sharrif Floyd was a 23rd pick.

What grade would you give our 2020 draft? We had 15 picks in that draft. 15!! Only Jefferson and Brandel are still with the team. Context. What grade would give our 2021 draft? We had 11 picks. Only Christian Darrisaw is still with the team. 1 out of 11. Context. Now do the rest of the NFL and you'll start to see what I'm talking about. 

But the 2023 draft also includes Blackmon, who had a pretty solid rookie season, starting 3 games and finishing with the 3rd highest PFF grade among all defensive rookies. He has more to prove after he missed last season, but that’s a solid rookie return for a player who was taken with the last pick in the 3rd round, which hits at about an 8-10% rate. And no, I don't consider him a hit yet, but the early signs are good. He's the only player from that draft (with a minimum of 400 snaps) who didn't miss a tackle. Context. 

We didn’t get much return from rounds 4-7. But as you know, or at least SHOULD know, that’s not unusual.

That site gave the Addison pick an A+ grade, not the entire draft.  Also the first link ranked our 2023 draft 23rd, not top 10.  :-)

Like I said it was an above average draft because we hit on a good WR and appear to have a potential starter or solid backup CB.  It's good in context to what teams typically get from drafts.  But it is concerning that our Day 3 picks didn't last more than 2 seasons to provide cheap depth.  All I'm saying is it wasn't a great draft like you've said repeatedly.

The 2020 draft was GREAT.  We landed a superstar late in Round 1, we still have Brandel as a starting G, and Josh Metellus who is a starting DB.  Then you add guys like Ezra Cleveland who was a starter for us and is still a starter with Jacksonville, K.J. Osborn who was a good WR3 for us and got a second contract from the Patriots, and DJ Wonnum who got a second contract with the Panthers.  

That's 6 guys who are starters for us or started games for us and another team...  Phenomenal draft.  Our 2023 draft isn't even in the same zip code as that one.

2021 draft was better than our 2023 draft as well and it's not even close.  Christian Darrisaw is a top 5 LT and got a second contract from us, Cam Bynum has been a starter and just got paid as a starter for Indy.  Patrick Jones signed a starter level contract with another team.  Surratt and Kene are special teams players that are still in the league.

[MaroonBells]

That site gave the Addison pick an A+ grade, not the entire draft.  Also the first link ranked our 2023 draft 23rd, not top 10.  :-)

Like I said it was an above average draft because we hit on a good WR and appear to have a potential starter or solid backup CB.  It's good in context to what teams typically get from drafts.  But it is concerning that our Day 3 picks didn't last more than 2 seasons to provide cheap depth.  All I'm saying is it wasn't a great draft like you've said repeatedly.

The 2020 draft was GREAT.  We landed a superstar late in Round 1, we still have Brandel as a starting G, and Josh Metellus who is a starting DB.  Then you add guys like Ezra Cleveland who was a starter for us and is still a starter with Jacksonville, K.J. Osborn who was a good WR3 for us and got a second contract from the Patriots, and DJ Wonnum who got a second contract with the Panthers.  

That's 6 guys who are starters for us or started games for us and another team...  Phenomenal draft.  Our 2023 draft isn't even in the same zip code as that one.

2021 draft was better than our 2023 draft as well and it's not even close.  Christian Darrisaw is a top 5 LT and got a second contract from us, Cam Bynum has been a starter and just got paid as a starter for Indy.  Patrick Jones signed a starter level contract with another team.  Surratt and Kene are special teams players that are still in the league.

At the bold, just fyi, you read it wrong. It's in reverse order. Actually now that I look at it again, I'm the one who read it wrong. The others are still valid though. :-)

But you're right about Metellus. Forgot about him. So three out of 15. And really? Surratt and Kene? C'mon, if you want to reach that deep, I got Jay Ward who is still on the Vikings, Jaren Hall who's on the Seahawks and Jacqueline Roy who was pretty good for the Pats last year....

[comet52]

There’s so many factors at play. Does the scouting department suck? Or is the scouting department competent but once all the scouting reports get turned over to the coaches and decision makers it all goes to shit. 

What football needs is a Moneyball type shakeup to the thinking process. The current process isn’t much better than it was 30 years ago. Analytics to date hasn’t produced any sort of quantum shift in success. AI? It’s still a male dominated industry so maybe more women? If I’m spending millions yearly and seeing no better results than a coin flip in the first round I am going to think outside the box.

To your question about scouting, a lot of folks will say that KAM has overhauled the scouting department but that's not really what's happened. A while back I looked up the list of personnel in that department from 2021 through 2024. culled it from various lists I found on the team's website. In Rick's last year his department was 22 people big including himself. What KAM did was expand it but keep most of Rick's guys around. As of now there are 14 Rick holdovers and another 20 or so new folks. So it's bigger but this includes some positions that are tech, management, etc. It also includes Ryan Grigson and I have to agree with Supafreak about this guy, what is he doing here?

Some say scouting got worse when Studwell left, and he allegedly left over a dispute with Rick. And Rick didn't always listen to his people - that's how we ended up with Christian Ponder among others. So in some ways I'm happy to have KAM not be a guy who feels like he has to make his bones by being a genius at identifying talent. OTOH, our drafting definitely needs to improve under his regime.