Now we are down to 4 teams remaining. One basic thing that sets these teams apart from others is they are pretty complete teams up and down the roster. Far more so than the Vikings.
The Vikings next year are somewhat unpredictable. Their ceiling seems to be making the playoffs and one and done. Their basement is fighting it out with the Bears for 4th place in the division.
Even with Cousins, they have way to many weaknesses and no path to all of them in one off season.
The Wilf's chose to hire the GM and HC that have the least experience of any GM or HC in the NFCN; and it's showing.
Some great players, just not enough good players to compliment them.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
All this hand-wringing over draft picks. Yes, the more you have the better, but let's not forget that the vast majority of them are busts. And in the last 7 seasons, the Rams have 5 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, 2 conference championships and 1 Super Bowl. All without having a single 1st round draft pick.
Oh no! The Vikings don't have a 3rd! A pick that can be generated by simply moving down 10 spots in the 2nd round, or two spots in the 1st. Just seems silly to me.
They haven't been busts when the Lions and Packers are drafting them though as both have been excellent the last couple years. Now you load those rosters with twice as many top 100 picks as we have in this upcoming draft and that gap between us continues to increase and it keeps those already young rosters, young and building long term. Bears are going to continue to get better with two top 10 picks, whether they make those picks or trade down. We are a roster badly in new of young talent upgrades at multiple positions and to me, we continue to fall behind in the division in youth and talent
Still, if the Vikings bring back Cousins, they should still have the best offense in the NFC North. Do you disagree with that?
I do. Lions offensive line is far superior, their running backs dwarf ours, St Brown is probabpy as good as Jefferson, LaPorta is as good as Hock, and Goff is every bit as good as Cousins (especially coming off major injury). If you want to say Addison is better than Reynolds/Williams that's fair. Lions had the 3rd ranked offense this season. So yes I think the Lions field a better offense, regardless if we bring Cousins back or not.
Yeah, I disagree with that. And I think most people looking at this objectively would.
No doubt their backs and IOL are better. I think the tackles are about the same. Sewell is a bit better than O'Neill but Darrisaw is a bit better than Decker. All four are among the best in the league at their positions.
I think Cousins is a notch above Goff. I think Jefferson is a wide notch above Amon-Ra. I think Addison is a wide notch above Reynolds. Hockenson and LaPorta are close. Still, Hockenson had more yards than Sam despite catching passes from 4 different QBs and not playing the last two games. I'll concede that LaPorta might be better next year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
All this hand-wringing over draft picks. Yes, the more you have the better, but let's not forget that the vast majority of them are busts. And in the last 7 seasons, the Rams have 5 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, 2 conference championships and 1 Super Bowl. All without having a single 1st round draft pick.
Oh no! The Vikings don't have a 3rd! A pick that can be generated by simply moving down 10 spots in the 2nd round, or two spots in the 1st. Just seems silly to me.
They haven't been busts when the Lions and Packers are drafting them though as both have been excellent the last couple years. Now you load those rosters with twice as many top 100 picks as we have in this upcoming draft and that gap between us continues to increase and it keeps those already young rosters, young and building long term. Bears are going to continue to get better with two top 10 picks, whether they make those picks or trade down. We are a roster badly in new of young talent upgrades at multiple positions and to me, we continue to fall behind in the division in youth and talent
Still, if the Vikings bring back Cousins, they should still have the best offense in the NFC North. Do you disagree with that?
I do. Lions offensive line is far superior, their running backs dwarf ours, St Brown is probabpy as good as Jefferson, LaPorta is as good as Hock, and Goff is every bit as good as Cousins (especially coming off major injury). If you want to say Addison is better than Reynolds/Williams that's fair. Lions had the 3rd ranked offense this season. So yes I think the Lions field a better offense, regardless if we bring Cousins back or not.
Yeah, I disagree with that. And I think most people looking at this objectively would.
No doubt their backs and IOL are better. I think the tackles are about the same. Sewell is a bit better than O'Neill but Darrisaw is a bit better than Decker. All four are among the best in the league at their positions.
I think Cousins is a notch above Goff. I think Jefferson is a wide notch above Amon-Ra. I think Addison is a wide notch above Reynolds. Hockenson and LaPorta are close. Still, Hockenson had more yards than Sam despite catching passes from 4 different QBs and not playing the last two games. I'll concede that LaPorta might be better next year.
It's all subjective, however I would not put a 36 year old Cousins coming off an achillies tear a notch above a healthy 29 year old Goff who was second in the league in passing this year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
All this hand-wringing over draft picks. Yes, the more you have the better, but let's not forget that the vast majority of them are busts. And in the last 7 seasons, the Rams have 5 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, 2 conference championships and 1 Super Bowl. All without having a single 1st round draft pick.
Oh no! The Vikings don't have a 3rd! A pick that can be generated by simply moving down 10 spots in the 2nd round, or two spots in the 1st. Just seems silly to me.
They haven't been busts when the Lions and Packers are drafting them though as both have been excellent the last couple years. Now you load those rosters with twice as many top 100 picks as we have in this upcoming draft and that gap between us continues to increase and it keeps those already young rosters, young and building long term. Bears are going to continue to get better with two top 10 picks, whether they make those picks or trade down. We are a roster badly in new of young talent upgrades at multiple positions and to me, we continue to fall behind in the division in youth and talent
Still, if the Vikings bring back Cousins, they should still have the best offense in the NFC North. Do you disagree with that?
I do. Lions offensive line is far superior, their running backs dwarf ours, St Brown is probabpy as good as Jefferson, LaPorta is as good as Hock, and Goff is every bit as good as Cousins (especially coming off major injury). If you want to say Addison is better than Reynolds/Williams that's fair. Lions had the 3rd ranked offense this season. So yes I think the Lions field a better offense, regardless if we bring Cousins back or not.
Yeah, I disagree with that. And I think most people looking at this objectively would.
No doubt their backs and IOL are better. I think the tackles are about the same. Sewell is a bit better than O'Neill but Darrisaw is a bit better than Decker. All four are among the best in the league at their positions.
I think Cousins is a notch above Goff. I think Jefferson is a wide notch above Amon-Ra. I think Addison is a wide notch above Reynolds. Hockenson and LaPorta are close. Still, Hockenson had more yards than Sam despite catching passes from 4 different QBs and not playing the last two games. I'll concede that LaPorta might be better next year.
No offense but, most people looking at it objectively would see the Lions going to the NFC championship game and the Vikings nowhere close to that; even when the Vikings had Cousins playing for the last several years.
Granted, Cousins may be better than Goff, but it is a team sport and Goff has a much better offensive line.
I appreciate your Sid Hartman like homerism but suspect it may cloud your vision!
You do realize people from the outside see the Vikings a lot differently than you do, right?
And why shouldn't they?
This past year was a rebuilding year. We off loaded some big contracts and with it ate a ton of dead cap. This cleanup was necessary because the prior regime kept kicking the can down the road. This was literally a “competitive rebuild” year. It would have likely resulted in a playoff appearance if it wasn’t for key injuries.
We had to eat $46,000,000 in dead cap.
We have big cap hits if we DON’T resign Cousins and Hunter. When we resign them, we will take on little dead space with their prior contracts.
KAM has significantly more cap space to work with this year in building a roster.
As for KAM’s drafts so far: the jury is still out. There’s simply no way to tell at this point. With that said, I think the doom and gloom is being grossly overstated here based on the evidence thus far. We have witnessed solid development from a fair number of them which resulted in a much better defensive performance this past year. The one glaring issue is Lewis Cine, but he suffered a serious injury and that is just part of the game we can’t always account for.
We objectively have a good core roster at a number of important positions.
LT - one of the best young ones in the game
RT - one of the top at his position - the all important bookends every team strongly desires are in place
WR - we have arguably the best in the league along with a second year (1st round pick from last year) who has been exceptional for a new guy
TE - again, one of the best in the league
Questions:
interior oline: they are improving, need to add to it if possible
QB: Cousins (hopefully) coming back (one if the better ones in the league)
RB: Ty Chandler is the future and it became obvious by the end of the year. His yards per carry is inline with a good to great NFL back.
That’s about it for offense and objectively, it’s a good group progressing. Most teams in the league would love to have the problems the Vikings have on offense.
Defense: Defense wins championships. It also makes you highly competitive in the playoffs each year. This is our weakness.
We have some young guys improving at corner and 2 elite safeties (developed in house) in place with a long term veteran still upper tier in the league.
We have a young backer, an undrafted free agent, who looks like a legit longterm starter. Nice work staff.
We need to improve the pressure put on opposing QB’s. It also improved, but this highlights a big need this offseason. We have the draft and a free agency where there’s actually money available to spend to improve this area.
If they do a smart job in free agency, the draft demands will not be significant. They can absolutely afford to pull the trigger on a QB in round 1 and still have picks to make an impact on the longterm roster.
This team is better than people think.
Quote: @jargomcfargo said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
All this hand-wringing over draft picks. Yes, the more you have the better, but let's not forget that the vast majority of them are busts. And in the last 7 seasons, the Rams have 5 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, 2 conference championships and 1 Super Bowl. All without having a single 1st round draft pick.
Oh no! The Vikings don't have a 3rd! A pick that can be generated by simply moving down 10 spots in the 2nd round, or two spots in the 1st. Just seems silly to me.
They haven't been busts when the Lions and Packers are drafting them though as both have been excellent the last couple years. Now you load those rosters with twice as many top 100 picks as we have in this upcoming draft and that gap between us continues to increase and it keeps those already young rosters, young and building long term. Bears are going to continue to get better with two top 10 picks, whether they make those picks or trade down. We are a roster badly in new of young talent upgrades at multiple positions and to me, we continue to fall behind in the division in youth and talent
Still, if the Vikings bring back Cousins, they should still have the best offense in the NFC North. Do you disagree with that?
I do. Lions offensive line is far superior, their running backs dwarf ours, St Brown is probabpy as good as Jefferson, LaPorta is as good as Hock, and Goff is every bit as good as Cousins (especially coming off major injury). If you want to say Addison is better than Reynolds/Williams that's fair. Lions had the 3rd ranked offense this season. So yes I think the Lions field a better offense, regardless if we bring Cousins back or not.
Yeah, I disagree with that. And I think most people looking at this objectively would.
No doubt their backs and IOL are better. I think the tackles are about the same. Sewell is a bit better than O'Neill but Darrisaw is a bit better than Decker. All four are among the best in the league at their positions.
I think Cousins is a notch above Goff. I think Jefferson is a wide notch above Amon-Ra. I think Addison is a wide notch above Reynolds. Hockenson and LaPorta are close. Still, Hockenson had more yards than Sam despite catching passes from 4 different QBs and not playing the last two games. I'll concede that LaPorta might be better next year.
No offense but, most people looking at it objectively would see the Lions going to the NFC championship game and the Vikings nowhere close to that; even when the Vikings had Cousins playing for the last several years.
Granted, Cousins may be better than Goff, but it is a team sport and Goff has a much better offensive line.
I appreciate your Sid Hartman like homerism but suspect it may cloud your vision!
You do realize people from the outside see the Vikings a lot differently than you do, right?
And why shouldn't they?
Honestly, I think most Viking fans see their team as much worse than they actually are. It's understandable given our history. I just try to add a little perspective and context.
People tend to only comprehend the "now" and forget what led to it. When Cousins went down he was leading the NFL in yards per game and the defense was starting to figure itself out. I don't think there's any question they would've made the playoffs and been one of the favorites if Cousins had stayed healthy.
You disagree with that?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
All this hand-wringing over draft picks. Yes, the more you have the better, but let's not forget that the vast majority of them are busts. And in the last 7 seasons, the Rams have 5 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, 2 conference championships and 1 Super Bowl. All without having a single 1st round draft pick.
Oh no! The Vikings don't have a 3rd! A pick that can be generated by simply moving down 10 spots in the 2nd round, or two spots in the 1st. Just seems silly to me.
They haven't been busts when the Lions and Packers are drafting them though as both have been excellent the last couple years. Now you load those rosters with twice as many top 100 picks as we have in this upcoming draft and that gap between us continues to increase and it keeps those already young rosters, young and building long term. Bears are going to continue to get better with two top 10 picks, whether they make those picks or trade down. We are a roster badly in new of young talent upgrades at multiple positions and to me, we continue to fall behind in the division in youth and talent
Still, if the Vikings bring back Cousins, they should still have the best offense in the NFC North. Do you disagree with that?
I do. Lions offensive line is far superior, their running backs dwarf ours, St Brown is probabpy as good as Jefferson, LaPorta is as good as Hock, and Goff is every bit as good as Cousins (especially coming off major injury). If you want to say Addison is better than Reynolds/Williams that's fair. Lions had the 3rd ranked offense this season. So yes I think the Lions field a better offense, regardless if we bring Cousins back or not.
Yeah, I disagree with that. And I think most people looking at this objectively would.
No doubt their backs and IOL are better. I think the tackles are about the same. Sewell is a bit better than O'Neill but Darrisaw is a bit better than Decker. All four are among the best in the league at their positions.
I think Cousins is a notch above Goff. I think Jefferson is a wide notch above Amon-Ra. I think Addison is a wide notch above Reynolds. Hockenson and LaPorta are close. Still, Hockenson had more yards than Sam despite catching passes from 4 different QBs and not playing the last two games. I'll concede that LaPorta might be better next year.
No offense but, most people looking at it objectively would see the Lions going to the NFC championship game and the Vikings nowhere close to that; even when the Vikings had Cousins playing for the last several years.
Granted, Cousins may be better than Goff, but it is a team sport and Goff has a much better offensive line.
I appreciate your Sid Hartman like homerism but suspect it may cloud your vision!
You do realize people from the outside see the Vikings a lot differently than you do, right?
And why shouldn't they?
Honestly, I think most Viking fans see their team as much worse than they actually are. It's understandable given our history. I just try to add a little perspective and context.
People tend to only comprehend the "now" and forget what led to it. When Cousins went down he was leading the NFL in yards per game and the defense was starting to figure itself out. I don't think there's any question they would've made the playoffs and been one of the favorites if Cousins had stayed healthy.
You disagree with that?
Not only would they have made the playoffs,they would've done so at the expense of GB.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
All this hand-wringing over draft picks. Yes, the more you have the better, but let's not forget that the vast majority of them are busts. And in the last 7 seasons, the Rams have 5 playoff appearances, 3 division titles, 2 conference championships and 1 Super Bowl. All without having a single 1st round draft pick.
Oh no! The Vikings don't have a 3rd! A pick that can be generated by simply moving down 10 spots in the 2nd round, or two spots in the 1st. Just seems silly to me.
They haven't been busts when the Lions and Packers are drafting them though as both have been excellent the last couple years. Now you load those rosters with twice as many top 100 picks as we have in this upcoming draft and that gap between us continues to increase and it keeps those already young rosters, young and building long term. Bears are going to continue to get better with two top 10 picks, whether they make those picks or trade down. We are a roster badly in new of young talent upgrades at multiple positions and to me, we continue to fall behind in the division in youth and talent
Still, if the Vikings bring back Cousins, they should still have the best offense in the NFC North. Do you disagree with that?
I do. Lions offensive line is far superior, their running backs dwarf ours, St Brown is probabpy as good as Jefferson, LaPorta is as good as Hock, and Goff is every bit as good as Cousins (especially coming off major injury). If you want to say Addison is better than Reynolds/Williams that's fair. Lions had the 3rd ranked offense this season. So yes I think the Lions field a better offense, regardless if we bring Cousins back or not.
Yeah, I disagree with that. And I think most people looking at this objectively would.
No doubt their backs and IOL are better. I think the tackles are about the same. Sewell is a bit better than O'Neill but Darrisaw is a bit better than Decker. All four are among the best in the league at their positions.
I think Cousins is a notch above Goff. I think Jefferson is a wide notch above Amon-Ra. I think Addison is a wide notch above Reynolds. Hockenson and LaPorta are close. Still, Hockenson had more yards than Sam despite catching passes from 4 different QBs and not playing the last two games. I'll concede that LaPorta might be better next year.
No offense but, most people looking at it objectively would see the Lions going to the NFC championship game and the Vikings nowhere close to that; even when the Vikings had Cousins playing for the last several years.
Granted, Cousins may be better than Goff, but it is a team sport and Goff has a much better offensive line.
I appreciate your Sid Hartman like homerism but suspect it may cloud your vision!
You do realize people from the outside see the Vikings a lot differently than you do, right?
And why shouldn't they?
Honestly, I think most Viking fans see their team as much worse than they actually are. It's understandable given our history. I just try to add a little perspective and context.
People tend to only comprehend the "now" and forget what led to it. When Cousins went down he was leading the NFL in yards per game and the defense was starting to figure itself out. I don't think there's any question they would've made the playoffs and been one of the favorites if Cousins had stayed healthy.
You disagree with that?
No. I have no problem with Cousins. I just don't see their defense as anywhere near championship caliber, yet.
Too many weaknesses. Too many big plays given up. I also see the interior offensive line as a liability; both guards and center.
Nothing personal, just wanted to know your opinion.
It's hard to say how we would have ended up if Cousins had stayed healthy, but lets not forget...we were only 3-4 with him including a home loss to the Chargers. I tend to think the way our defense collapsed the last month of the season that it would have been an uphill climb to make the playoffs with or without Cousins
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
It's hard to say how we would have ended up if Cousins had stayed healthy, but lets not forget...we were only 3-4 with him including a home loss to the Chargers. I tend to think the way our defense collapsed the last month of the season that it would have been an uphill climb to make the playoffs with or without Cousins
yeah they were never going to be anything but one and done at best.
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